If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[Markle]

Having the "dead and dying on the streets" is worse.

Where do we have that happening? Please be specific.

 

[Issa]

Boom truth hurts....lot of Americans don't understand that most of the world have free health care, free education. They don't have a problem with the government taking their money nd wasting it on useless arms and bases all over the world, but they'll resist providing health care for themselves and their countrymen. But again they had Hillary and Donald as their main candidates.....!!!

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

 

[Markle]

Either way, I could be paying a lot of money for a healthcare system, or I could be paying a lot of money for nothing, which is better? The NHS is still better than nothing. You can still go out and get health insurance. You haven't got back to me on my other posts which clearly show US people pay MORE in taxes to the US federal govt for healthcare they don't receive than the British people pay for healthcare which they do.

Another lie. As I have proven.

 

[Markle]

Why are families going bankrupt over healthcare bills?

Wow! You swallowed that phony "study" perpetrated on the public by Pocahontas aka Elizabeth Warren. Why lie?

 

[Markle]

Private sector control guarantees inequality on a for-profit basis.

On what basis should health care be rationed?

 

[Markle]

Providing healthcare promotes the general welfare.

Isn't food more important? Wouldn't providing food promote the general welfare? You know, like in Russia, China, and North Korea?

Don't we all need housing? Wouldn't providing housing promote the general welfare? You know, like in Russia, China and North?

We can't really exist without water, electricity, sanitary facilities. Why should we all have to pay for those things when they're more important than health care? Or is that your goal? One nudge at a time?

 

[Markle]

It has to do with the, "government sponsored socialism of equality". The private sector has no profit motive to ensure, equality.

It is impossible to have equality. Who rations health care?

 

[Markle]

Even in the link it is explained that that is not necessarily the cause of diabetes. I have diabetes. Had it for years. I'm 5'9" and 145 pounds. Does that add up to diabetes caused by overeating?

Type one or type two?

You are part of the problem. U in it for the money. The rest of the world has is better, we should learn from the best.
Healthcare staff are overpaid, treatments are overly priced.
Greed and selfishness is what's wrong with this country.

No country has it better than we do unless you consider not having to work or produce is better.

Health care staff are NOT overpaid. Treatments are overpriced because the public and government do not allow for competition. Take a look at laser eye surgery and many types of plastic surgery. Prices are close to or lower than 20 or 30 years ago and the technology and procedures have advanced tremendously. Why? Because insurance does not cover the procedures so people compare doctors, procedures, reputations, and PRICES. They look for what they consider the best deal for them.

By the way, there is good greed and bad greed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Boom truth hurts....lot of Americans don't understand that most of the world have free health care, free education.

No, that's not the problem. The problem is we have Americans that think there are people that have free healthcare. Nothing is free. It may be no cost to some people, but that doesn't mean it's free, it means somebody else is paying for it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You are part of the problem. U in it for the money. The rest of the world has is better, we should learn from the best.
Healthcare staff are overpaid, treatments are overly priced.
Greed and selfishness is what's wrong with this country.

Talk about saying stupid shit. Do you know how much those liberals colleges cost to learn how to perform jobs in the healthcare industry? It takes eight years to be a doctor, six years to be a pharmacist, four years to be a registered nurse. Do you think those people should invest years of their lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars to make 40K a year?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Oh, I understand that totally.

But if you're worried about the govt, then you should also be worried about private companies being able to control you. I certainly am. Buying healthcare annoys me greatly because I know I'm being conned.

The difference between private and government is private competes and offer choices--government does not. It all depends on who is in charge at the time, but like we've seen with Commie Care, a lot of damage can take place in a short amount of time, and to change it back is sometimes impossible. If you don't like your private insurance or their regulations, you make two phone calls and the switch is made.

In some countries there are not for profit health insurance companies that work in tandem with the govt. People buy their healthcare from these companies. But then again the govt can change regulation at will. The only real solution is that people can buy healthcare insurance that lasts for a lifetime, and they pay into this healthcare insurance somehow, and that this can never be taken away from them. But even then a govt could find ways of taking it away. It doesn't really matter whether you have a private system or a state run system.

Government is in more control over changing things if they run it than if the private sector runs it.

Yes, I see how politics gets in.
Pre-existing conditions, however, aren't a choice. Tobacco is a choice. Do you see the difference there? Yes, you might see politics playing a part, however your choice of example is poor.

I didn't provide you an example, I provided several.

Tobacco is a choice for some just like narcotics. Some can quit and others can't. I know people who have spent a month or so in the hospital or jail, they came right back out and smoked. I know a few people that spent time in prison; some for over five years, when they came out, they started using drugs again.

Now ask yourself what party inflicts the most sin taxes in America? I'll give you a hint: it's the control freak party.

As for your rant about Democrats, your partisan nonsense bores me and I didn't bother even reading it. I'm here to discuss the issues, not play bullshit partisan politics.

Partisan politics is politics unless you wish to put the palms of your hands to your ears and sing aloud. Of course you ignore it because you can't defend it.

How many insurance companies offer the choice of healthcare for pre-existing conditions at affordable prices? Er... none.

What choice do you get in the US?

You don't get the choice of paying taxes, and you pay MORE in taxes for healthcare than the British do.

The Brits have a choice. They can pay their taxes and pay more for private, whereas in the US you pay taxes and then have to pay for insurance on top whether you like it or not.

What choices do you get in the US that you don't get in the UK?

As I've said with healthcare, even if you have a US system where it's all private insurance companies going around fucking poor people over, the govt can STILL come along and change the regulations, can't they? Obama's done it, Trump's trying to do it. So what?

With single payer you're at the whim of the govt, without single payer you're at the whim of the govt. What's the difference?

As for private insurers, it's not always so easy is it? Especially if you're ill. If you're ill, you're screwed and you stop having choice because the insurance companies don't like you any more, am I right?

"Government is in more control over changing things if they run it than if the private sector runs it. "

I don't really get your point here.

Some people can't or won't give up smoking.
It's funny, because you don't have a problem with private insurance companies basically telling people with pre-existing conditions to fuck off, but you DO have a problem with the govt telling people who smoke to fuck off.

What? How does that make any sense? Insurance companies ask if you smoke. They charge you more. They fuck you over. No problem. The govt does it "oh they're bad".

You know Ray, I get the distinct feeling you don't come up with your views based on whether they're right or wrong, I get the feeling you come up with your views based on what you think makes you stick to some kind of Republican rule book or something.

How do you come up with the view that pre-existing conditions and tobacco should be treated the same, but tobacco should be treated differently in government than health insurance companies?

Partisan politics is bullshit. it's about having the "right argument", it doesn't need to make sense in the real world, it just needs to sound good. But like I said, you go off on the bullshit "it's all the Democrats fault" like a broken record, then I doze off and....zzzz

The reason you don't like partisan politics is because you don't like the truth. The truth is parties are to blame when they have a political agenda in a matter like healthcare.

You must be one of those people that thinks Commie Care was designed to insure everybody and treat everybody equal instead of the truth which you don't want to discuss. Like I said, when it comes to the truth, you just put the palms of your hands to your ears and sing aloud.

Where did I ever say that preexisting conditions should not be addressed? If you read the entire thread, you'd see I did address preexisting conditions and what should be done about it.

Government has limits as to what regulations they can put on insurance companies. They don't have any limits when they run their own healthcare. That's the difference. The government cannot make regulations that would put insurance companies out of business, but they can make laws that put our country further in debt.

Now you talk about how people in the UK have choices. Yea, their choice is to do what Americans do and buy insurance that gives them those choices.

 

[Anathema]

Ebenezer Srooge? Is that you?

No. Mr Scrooge is a hippy compared to me.

 

[PredFan]

You are part of the problem. U in it for the money. The rest of the world has is better, we should learn from the best.
Healthcare staff are overpaid, treatments are overly priced.
Greed and selfishness is what's wrong with this country.

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

 

[PredFan]

Boom truth hurts....lot of Americans don't understand that most of the world have free health care, free education. They don't have a problem with the government taking their money nd wasting it on useless arms and bases all over the world, but they'll resist providing health care for themselves and their countrymen. But again they had Hillary and Donald as their main candidates.....!!!

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.

Our people live longer than your, they are healthier than you throughout their lives, and no one ever gets a bill from a doctor. Oh yeah, and we are a lot happier than you snowflakes.

Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

It isn't free, you profoundly stupid moron.

 

[Billo_Really]

Universal healthcare is the only option.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, I understand that totally.

But if you're worried about the govt, then you should also be worried about private companies being able to control you. I certainly am. Buying healthcare annoys me greatly because I know I'm being conned.

The difference between private and government is private competes and offer choices--government does not. It all depends on who is in charge at the time, but like we've seen with Commie Care, a lot of damage can take place in a short amount of time, and to change it back is sometimes impossible. If you don't like your private insurance or their regulations, you make two phone calls and the switch is made.

In some countries there are not for profit health insurance companies that work in tandem with the govt. People buy their healthcare from these companies. But then again the govt can change regulation at will. The only real solution is that people can buy healthcare insurance that lasts for a lifetime, and they pay into this healthcare insurance somehow, and that this can never be taken away from them. But even then a govt could find ways of taking it away. It doesn't really matter whether you have a private system or a state run system.

Government is in more control over changing things if they run it than if the private sector runs it.

Yes, I see how politics gets in.
Pre-existing conditions, however, aren't a choice. Tobacco is a choice. Do you see the difference there? Yes, you might see politics playing a part, however your choice of example is poor.

I didn't provide you an example, I provided several.

Tobacco is a choice for some just like narcotics. Some can quit and others can't. I know people who have spent a month or so in the hospital or jail, they came right back out and smoked. I know a few people that spent time in prison; some for over five years, when they came out, they started using drugs again.

Now ask yourself what party inflicts the most sin taxes in America? I'll give you a hint: it's the control freak party.

As for your rant about Democrats, your partisan nonsense bores me and I didn't bother even reading it. I'm here to discuss the issues, not play bullshit partisan politics.

Partisan politics is politics unless you wish to put the palms of your hands to your ears and sing aloud. Of course you ignore it because you can't defend it.

How many insurance companies offer the choice of healthcare for pre-existing conditions at affordable prices? Er... none.

What choice do you get in the US?

You don't get the choice of paying taxes, and you pay MORE in taxes for healthcare than the British do.

The Brits have a choice. They can pay their taxes and pay more for private, whereas in the US you pay taxes and then have to pay for insurance on top whether you like it or not.

What choices do you get in the US that you don't get in the UK?

As I've said with healthcare, even if you have a US system where it's all private insurance companies going around fucking poor people over, the govt can STILL come along and change the regulations, can't they? Obama's done it, Trump's trying to do it. So what?

With single payer you're at the whim of the govt, without single payer you're at the whim of the govt. What's the difference?

As for private insurers, it's not always so easy is it? Especially if you're ill. If you're ill, you're screwed and you stop having choice because the insurance companies don't like you any more, am I right?

"Government is in more control over changing things if they run it than if the private sector runs it. "

I don't really get your point here.

Some people can't or won't give up smoking.
It's funny, because you don't have a problem with private insurance companies basically telling people with pre-existing conditions to fuck off, but you DO have a problem with the govt telling people who smoke to fuck off.

What? How does that make any sense? Insurance companies ask if you smoke. They charge you more. They fuck you over. No problem. The govt does it "oh they're bad".

You know Ray, I get the distinct feeling you don't come up with your views based on whether they're right or wrong, I get the feeling you come up with your views based on what you think makes you stick to some kind of Republican rule book or something.

How do you come up with the view that pre-existing conditions and tobacco should be treated the same, but tobacco should be treated differently in government than health insurance companies?

Partisan politics is bullshit. it's about having the "right argument", it doesn't need to make sense in the real world, it just needs to sound good. But like I said, you go off on the bullshit "it's all the Democrats fault" like a broken record, then I doze off and....zzzz

The reason you don't like partisan politics is because you don't like the truth. The truth is parties are to blame when they have a political agenda in a matter like healthcare.

You must be one of those people that thinks Commie Care was designed to insure everybody and treat everybody equal instead of the truth which you don't want to discuss. Like I said, when it comes to the truth, you just put the palms of your hands to your ears and sing aloud.

Where did I ever say that preexisting conditions should not be addressed? If you read the entire thread, you'd see I did address preexisting conditions and what should be done about it.

Government has limits as to what regulations they can put on insurance companies. They don't have any limits when they run their own healthcare. That's the difference. The government cannot make regulations that would put insurance companies out of business, but they can make laws that put our country further in debt.

Now you talk about how people in the UK have choices. Yea, their choice is to do what Americans do and buy insurance that gives them those choices.

Oh please Ray, don't tell me this nonsense is the truth. There might be parts of the truth there, the problem is you're saying all the problems come from the Democrats and you'll ignore completely and utterly that the Republicans are a massive part of the problem too. If you don't see that, it's because you don't want to.

Obamacare, for me, was an attempt at making change, but he reality was that is wasn't the solution to any problem. But hey, you can just tell me what I think, seems to be all the rage these days.

Who makes government limits on insurance companies? Would that be the government? So they can put regulation on their own healthcare. I'm not sure where you're going with this argument.

As for your sentence on the choices that British people have, it tires me that you'd write something so unworthy of a response.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You are part of the problem. U in it for the money. The rest of the world has is better, we should learn from the best.
Healthcare staff are overpaid, treatments are overly priced.
Greed and selfishness is what's wrong with this country.

Talk about saying stupid shit. Do you know how much those liberals colleges cost to learn how to perform jobs in the healthcare industry? It takes eight years to be a doctor, six years to be a pharmacist, four years to be a registered nurse. Do you think those people should invest years of their lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars to make 40K a year?

So again, your view is that healthcare should only be available to those who can pay the going rate for it.

And the rest should go without.

 

[Redfish]

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

Well, that's just retarded logic.

Really? You see, I have the right to own a gun, I do NOT have the right to have government supply it for Me.
I have the right to purchase health care, I do not have the right to have government supply it for Me.

The government cannot force Me to buy a gun even though I have a right to buy it.
The government cannot force Me to buy health care even though I have a right to buy it.

Understand?

Yes, really.

I have the right to 'bear arms' ,yet I still need to buy one first.

I have the right to healthcare, yet I still need to buy into a private plan or pay taxes toward it.

Not a single person except you rw dimwits has said anything about ' free' healthcare.
Single payer is paid for with a dedicated tax that everyone must pay. Not unlike Medicare.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care, or medical care funded by taxes. You have a right to own a gun because of the second amendment.

If you think medical care is a constitutional right, quote the language from the constitution that makes it so.

You do not have a constitutional right to free medical care,

No one has said healthcare should be free, dumbass.

really, well if you pay no income taxes and healthcare is funded from income taxes, and you get government provided healthcare at no cost---------------are you getting it free?

 

[Redfish]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

So what happens when those without it go to an emergency room that by law has to treat them? Or should they die instead of being treated?

no one in the USA has ever been denied medical care at an ER. That is the case now and was the case before ACA.

That's what makes it a right, dope.

no it doesn't make it a right. It makes it something that society has decided to provide to all citizens. your grasp of the English language is minimal, isn't it?

 

[Redfish]

Universal healthcare is the only option.

welcome to the VA, you fricken moron.