If you live in the US, Are Hamas and Hizballah Terrorist Organizations?

[Maryland]

In other words, you are little more than a common troll uttering superficial soundbytes in an attempt to derail the thread without offering anything of substance. There are others here far more capable than you who at least add substance. If you want to continue in this direction - start a thread and I'll join you.

In other words, Christianity advocates kind treatment of Jews and Islam advocates hatred, intolerance, persecution and violence against Jews.

would i be in error to assume you are excluding catholics as "christians". if not, you are going to make a lot of jewish posters angry who consider the pope the anti-christ.

now, say three hail maries and a good act of contrition for your penance, go in peace, and sin no more. in nomine patrus et filii et spiritus sancti.

also, if, after a cold night of hard liquor and pickeld, hard boiled eggs and you find yourself in bed cuddled up with the blanket over your head and you should suddenly detect the unmistakeble odor of hell fire and brimstone...it has a smell a lot like sulfur...then satan may be living under your bed.

i can do a pretty rad latin rite exorcism....choir of gregorian monks will cost you extra...those vows of poverty don't go quite as far as they used to.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm fine if you wish to debate something - call me out, pick a topic and we'll set some rules

i got no idea what that is all about. she is doing me too...lol...should we be jealous or something? what is the protocol?

It's to debate one on one with her in the Bull Ring - you mutually agree on the topic and a set of rules, and it is just the two of you.

One on one and nobody can come in to torpedo the thread?

Cool.

 

[sealadaigh]

Let's get back on to the topic as several posters have attempted to do with this thread

i think the original post merely stated that the USA had declared HAMAS and hezbolah terrorist organisations and that really doesn't call for discussion.

yes, our government has declared hezbolah and HAMAS terrorist organisations.

 

[Maryland]

Let's get back on to the topic as several posters have attempted to do with this thread

i think the original post merely stated that the USA had declared HAMAS and hezbolah terrorist organisations and that really doesn't call for discussion.

yes, our government has declared hezbolah and HAMAS terrorist organisations.

The EU, Canada and Australia classify Hamas as a terrorist faction

 

[Hossfly]

game on. Meet me in the bull ring for a no holds barred debate on islam's direct ties to hitler.

I'm booked already for a monday night session, but how does tuesday 7 prm central sound to you?

I'm going to go to the bull ring now to call you out.

what will be the name of this thread in the bull ring. The reason i ask is that i am interested in following it.

the windy and the lyin

 

[sealadaigh]

i got no idea what that is all about. she is doing me too...lol...should we be jealous or something? what is the protocol?

It's to debate one on one with her in the Bull Ring - you mutually agree on the topic and a set of rules, and it is just the two of you.

One on one and nobody can come in to torpedo the thread?

Cool.

couldn't i just tell her what she is going to say, tell her how i will respond, and then tell her how she will respond to my response....perhaps i should just PM it to you guys.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Let's get back on to the topic as several posters have attempted to do with this thread

i think the original post merely stated that the USA had declared HAMAS and hezbolah terrorist organisations and that really doesn't call for discussion.

yes, our government has declared hezbolah and HAMAS terrorist organisations.

The EU, Canada and Australia classify Hamas as a terrorist faction

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

 

[Maryland]

i think the original post merely stated that the USA had declared HAMAS and hezbolah terrorist organisations and that really doesn't call for discussion.

yes, our government has declared hezbolah and HAMAS terrorist organisations.

The EU, Canada and Australia classify Hamas as a terrorist faction

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

The entire Islamic world defines terrorism the same way...

Koran 8:12 I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.

 

[sealadaigh]

i think the original post merely stated that the USA had declared HAMAS and hezbolah terrorist organisations and that really doesn't call for discussion.

yes, our government has declared hezbolah and HAMAS terrorist organisations.

The EU, Canada and Australia classify Hamas as a terrorist faction

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.

soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

 

[Maryland]

The EU, Canada and Australia classify Hamas as a terrorist faction

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.



soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

 

[Coyote]

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.



soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

If you wish to discuss Islam, as a terrorist RELIGION, start a topic in the correct forum rather than derailing this topic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.



soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

Even when the definition of protected persons is set out in this way, it may seem rather complicated. Nevertheless, disregarding points of detail, it will be seen that there are two main classes of protected person: (1) ' enemy nationals ' within the national territory of each of the Parties to the conflict and (2) ' the whole population ' of occupied territories (excluding nationals of the Occupying Power).

International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention

Israeli citizens are excluded from the protected person (civilian) class in international law.

What else you got?

 

[sealadaigh]

Indeed, a small handful of countries have that political opinion.

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.



soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

you're kinda proving my point here, doncha think...about propaganda and all?

there is no generally accepted definition of "terrorism" and your initial "the" is disengenuous...and i am being lenient.

christ, i could aalmost use some of these definitions, including yours, to claim AIPAC as a terrorist organisation.

 

[Maryland]

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.



soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

If you wish to discuss Islam, as a terrorist RELIGION, start a topic in the correct forum rather than derailing this topic.

Hamas and Hezballah would be Islamic terrorist factions, making Islamic doctrine entirely irrelevant. The truth hurts, eh?

 

[Coyote]

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

If you wish to discuss Islam, as a terrorist RELIGION, start a topic in the correct forum rather than derailing this topic.

Hamas and Hezballah would be Islamic terrorist factions, making Islamic doctrine entirely irrelevant. The truth hurts, eh?

Again:

If you wish to discuss Islam, as a terrorist RELIGION, start a topic in the correct forum rather than derailing this topic.

It's not rocket science

 

[sealadaigh]

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

If you wish to discuss Islam, as a terrorist RELIGION, start a topic in the correct forum rather than derailing this topic.

Hamas and Hezballah would be Islamic terrorist factions, making Islamic doctrine entirely irrelevant. The truth hurts, eh?

let me make this simple...whyn't ya take your fookin' bleedin' twat and waddle off to some "damn islam" religious forum.

 

[Roudy]

History is not a matter of opinions. History is fact. Islam is directly tied to Hitler.

Hitler picked up making Jews wear yellow badges from Muslims.

And right there is a perfect example of the dishonesty of this kind of argument.

Were the Nazis the first to implement a Jewish badge?

The Nazis rarely had an original idea. Almost always what made the Nazi policies different was that they intensified, magnified, and institutionalized the age-old methods of persecution.

The oldest reference to using mandatory articles of clothing to identify and distinguish Jews from the rest of society was in 807 CE. In this year, Abbassid caliph Haroun al-Raschid ordered all Jews to wear a yellow belt and a tall, cone-like hat.1

But it was in 1215 that the Fourth Lateran Council, presided over by Pope Innocent III, made its infamous decree. Canon 68 declared:

Jews and Saracens [Muslims] of both sexes in every Christian province and at all times shall be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their dress.2

This Council represented all of Christendom and thus this decree was to be enforced throughout all of the Christian countries.

The use of a badge was not instantaneous throughout Europe nor were the dimensions or shape of the badge uniform. As early as 1217, King Henry III of England ordered Jews to wear "on the front of their upper garment the two tables of the Ten Commandments made of white linen or parchment."3 In France, local variations of the badge continued until Louis IX decreed in 1269 that "both men and women were to wear badges on the outer garment, both front and back, round pieces of yellow felt or linen, a palm long and four fingers wide."4

In Germany and Austria, Jews were distinguishable in the latter half of the 1200's when the wearing of a "horned hat" otherwise known as a "Jewish hat" -- an article of clothing that Jews had worn freely before the crusades -- became mandatory. It wasn't until the fifteenth century when a badge became the distinguishing article in Germany and Austria.

The use of badges became relatively widespread throughout Europe within a couple of centuries and continued to be used as distinctive markings until the age of Enlightenment. In 1781, Joseph II of Austria made major torrents into the use of a badge with his Edict of Tolerance and many other countries discontinued their use of badges very late in the eighteenth century.

Pretty stark and damning as to the sentiments regarding Jews throughout history in both Christendom and Islam.

So what you're saying is that it is possible that Christians picked it up from the Muslims, and then passed it on to the Nazis through the close relationship between the Vatican and Hitler. Nobody's arguing that possibility. Other than the fact that Muslims started the practice is indisputable.

Timeline



Jews being beaten, from an English manuscript. The yellow badge is in the shape of the Tablets of the Law.
717
Possible date of the Pact of Umar which stipulates that Christians (and by implication also Jews) living in Muslim lands are required to wear distinctive clothing. Although most historians question the historicity of the pact, the use of distinguishing marks is consistent with documentary and archaeological evidence from 7th and 8th century Iraq and Syria. The pact itself is thought to be an invention of later jurists seeking justification for certain cultural practices that had developed over time.[3]
850
A decree of the Abbassid Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, reported by the 10th century historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, requires Christian and Jewish subjects to wear honey-coloured hoods and belts of a particular type. Distinguishing marks are also prescribed for their slaves.[19]
1005
Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim, orders Jewish and Christian residents to wear bells on their garments and a "golden calf" (made of wood) around the neck when bathing with Muslims.[20]
1058
Start of less tolerant policy towards Christians and Jews by the Seljuk authorities in the Abbasid empire. Existing laws imposing distinctive dress are enforced. Non-Muslims in Baghdad are forced to wear signs on their dress.[21]


Jews (identifiable by rouelle) being burned at stake. From medieval manuscript.
1085
Non-Muslims are required to wear distinctive signs on their turbans.[21]
1091
Abbasid Caliph Al-Muqtadi decrees that the "non-believers" had to wear yellow headgear and girdles of various colors, and a sign of lead around their necks to show they had to pay the poll-tax. Women had to wear shoes of different colors, such as one red and the other black.[21]
1121
A letter from Baghdad describes decrees regulating Jewish clothes: "two yellow badges, one on the headgear and one on the neck. Furthermore, each Jew must hang round his neck a piece of lead with the word dhimmi on it. He also has to wear a belt round his waist. The women have to wear one red and one black shoe and have a small bell on their necks or shoes." [22]
1215
Fourth Lateran Council headed by Pope Innocent III declares: "Jews and Saracens of both sexes in every Christian province and at all times shall be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their dress." [23]
1219
Pope Honorius III issues a dispensation to the Jews of Castile.[7] Spanish Jews normally wore turbans in any case, which presumably met the requirement to be distinctive.[24]
1222
Archbishop of Canterbury Stephen Langton orders English Jews to wear a white band two fingers broad and four fingers long.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge

 

[Maryland]

Hitler picked up making Jews wear yellow badges from Muslims.

And right there is a perfect example of the dishonesty of this kind of argument.



Pretty stark and damning as to the sentiments regarding Jews throughout history in both Christendom and Islam.

So what you're saying is that it is possible that Christians picked it up from the Muslims, and then passed it on to the Nazis through the close relationship between the Vatican and Hitler. Nobody's arguing that possibility. Other than the fact that Muslims started the practice is indisputable.

Timeline



Jews being beaten, from an English manuscript. The yellow badge is in the shape of the Tablets of the Law.
717
Possible date of the Pact of Umar which stipulates that Christians (and by implication also Jews) living in Muslim lands are required to wear distinctive clothing. Although most historians question the historicity of the pact, the use of distinguishing marks is consistent with documentary and archaeological evidence from 7th and 8th century Iraq and Syria. The pact itself is thought to be an invention of later jurists seeking justification for certain cultural practices that had developed over time.[3]
850
A decree of the Abbassid Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, reported by the 10th century historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, requires Christian and Jewish subjects to wear honey-coloured hoods and belts of a particular type. Distinguishing marks are also prescribed for their slaves.[19]
1005
Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim, orders Jewish and Christian residents to wear bells on their garments and a "golden calf" (made of wood) around the neck when bathing with Muslims.[20]
1058
Start of less tolerant policy towards Christians and Jews by the Seljuk authorities in the Abbasid empire. Existing laws imposing distinctive dress are enforced. Non-Muslims in Baghdad are forced to wear signs on their dress.[21]


Jews (identifiable by rouelle) being burned at stake. From medieval manuscript.
1085
Non-Muslims are required to wear distinctive signs on their turbans.[21]
1091
Abbasid Caliph Al-Muqtadi decrees that the "non-believers" had to wear yellow headgear and girdles of various colors, and a sign of lead around their necks to show they had to pay the poll-tax. Women had to wear shoes of different colors, such as one red and the other black.[21]
1121
A letter from Baghdad describes decrees regulating Jewish clothes: "two yellow badges, one on the headgear and one on the neck. Furthermore, each Jew must hang round his neck a piece of lead with the word dhimmi on it. He also has to wear a belt round his waist. The women have to wear one red and one black shoe and have a small bell on their necks or shoes." [22]
1215
Fourth Lateran Council headed by Pope Innocent III declares: "Jews and Saracens of both sexes in every Christian province and at all times shall be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their dress." [23]
1219
Pope Honorius III issues a dispensation to the Jews of Castile.[7] Spanish Jews normally wore turbans in any case, which presumably met the requirement to be distinctive.[24]
1222
Archbishop of Canterbury Stephen Langton orders English Jews to wear a white band two fingers broad and four fingers long.[7]

If Hamas and Hezballah convert to Christianity, they will love thy neighbors as themselves.

 

[Roudy]

Hitler picked up making Jews wear yellow badges from Muslims.

And right there is a perfect example of the dishonesty of this kind of argument.



Pretty stark and damning as to the sentiments regarding Jews throughout history in both Christendom and Islam.

So what you're saying is that it is possible that Christians picked it up from the Muslims, and then passed it on to the Nazis through the close relationship between the Vatican and Hitler. Nobody's arguing that possibility. Other than the fact that Muslims started the practice is indisputable.

Timeline



Jews being beaten, from an English manuscript. The yellow badge is in the shape of the Tablets of the Law.
717
Possible date of the Pact of Umar which stipulates that Christians (and by implication also Jews) living in Muslim lands are required to wear distinctive clothing. Although most historians question the historicity of the pact, the use of distinguishing marks is consistent with documentary and archaeological evidence from 7th and 8th century Iraq and Syria. The pact itself is thought to be an invention of later jurists seeking justification for certain cultural practices that had developed over time.[3]
850
A decree of the Abbassid Caliph Al-Mutawakkil, reported by the 10th century historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, requires Christian and Jewish subjects to wear honey-coloured hoods and belts of a particular type. Distinguishing marks are also prescribed for their slaves.[19]
1005
Fatimid Caliph Al-Hakim, orders Jewish and Christian residents to wear bells on their garments and a "golden calf" (made of wood) around the neck when bathing with Muslims.[20]
1058
Start of less tolerant policy towards Christians and Jews by the Seljuk authorities in the Abbasid empire. Existing laws imposing distinctive dress are enforced. Non-Muslims in Baghdad are forced to wear signs on their dress.[21]


Jews (identifiable by rouelle) being burned at stake. From medieval manuscript.
1085
Non-Muslims are required to wear distinctive signs on their turbans.[21]
1091
Abbasid Caliph Al-Muqtadi decrees that the "non-believers" had to wear yellow headgear and girdles of various colors, and a sign of lead around their necks to show they had to pay the poll-tax. Women had to wear shoes of different colors, such as one red and the other black.[21]
1121
A letter from Baghdad describes decrees regulating Jewish clothes: "two yellow badges, one on the headgear and one on the neck. Furthermore, each Jew must hang round his neck a piece of lead with the word dhimmi on it. He also has to wear a belt round his waist. The women have to wear one red and one black shoe and have a small bell on their necks or shoes." [22]
1215
Fourth Lateran Council headed by Pope Innocent III declares: "Jews and Saracens of both sexes in every Christian province and at all times shall be marked off in the eyes of the public from other peoples through the character of their dress." [23]
1219
Pope Honorius III issues a dispensation to the Jews of Castile.[7] Spanish Jews normally wore turbans in any case, which presumably met the requirement to be distinctive.[24]
1222
Archbishop of Canterbury Stephen Langton orders English Jews to wear a white band two fingers broad and four fingers long.[7]

1315–1326
Emir Ismael Abu-I-Walid forces the Jews of Granada to wear the yellow badge.[7]
1321
Henry II of Castile forces the Jews to wear the yellow badge.[7]
1415, May 11
Bull of the Avignon Pope Benedict XIII orders the Jews to wear a yellow and red badge, the men on their breast, the women on their forehead.[7]
1434
Emperor Sigismund reintroduces the badge at Augsburg.[7]
1528
The Council of Ten of Venice allows the newly-arrived famous physician and professor Jacob Mantino ben Samuel to wear the regular black doctors' cap instead of Jewish yellow hat for several months (subsequently made permanent), upon the recommendation of the French and English ambassadors, the papal legate, and other dignitaries numbered among his patients.[29]
1555
Pope Paul IV decrees, in his Cum nimis absurdum, that the Jews should wear yellow hats.
1566
King Sigismund II passes a law that required Lithuanian Jews to wear yellow hats and head coverings. The law was abolished twenty years later.[7]
1710
Frederick William I of Prussia abolished the mandatory Jewish yellow patch in return for a payment of 8,000 thaler (about $75,000 worth of silver at 2007 prices) each.[30]
1938, August 17
The Nazi regime forced Jewish Germans and the stateless Jews with Austrian citizenship to adopt additional middle names (mostly Israel or Sarah, few other derogatory names considered "Jewish" were alternatively possible) to be used at any occasion such as signatures, visit cards, addresses, firms etc.

Yellow badge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Roudy]

let's just stick with the word "terrorist" is a propaganda tool and has no univerally accepted definition, either conventionally, politically, or legally. it really does make any further discussion moot.



soon it will go the way of words such as "NAZI" and "anti-semitism" in that a once powerful word will be rendered meaningless.

the generally accepted def. of terrorism is violence directed against non-combatants in order to further a political ideology. Islam, a political ideology, is a terrorist "religion"

you're kinda proving my point here, doncha think...about propaganda and all?

there is no generally accepted definition of "terrorism" and your initial "the" is disengenuous...and i am being lenient.

christ, i could aalmost use some of these definitions, including yours, to claim AIPAC as a terrorist organisation.

Says who? You? Get a life. Stick to the topic:

Are Hamas and Hezbollah considered terrorist organizations according to the laws of this land? Yes or no.