If you use the term "crap policies"...

[Bfgrn]

you, idiot Bfgrn, your beloved obama sold you out to all those big corporations with this crap called obamacare - as they are the only ones benefiting the mandatory burglary of the middle class.

and put the government agencies to guard that nobody escapes the burglary by big pockets.

yet you are too retarded to realize that this is a fascist type of enterprise and it is the exact opposite of wht you, brainless leftards, are being brainwashed with by your masters

The only mindless retards in the whole health insurance debate are retards like you. You right wing tards claim the left are a bunch of parrots, while tards like you parrot every fucking lie and propaganda talking point from scum like Sean Hannity and Faux News.

Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare
UPDATE I re-reported a Fox News segment on Obamacare -- it was appallingly easy to see how it misleads the audience

I happened to turn on the Hannity show on Fox News last Friday evening. “Average Americans are feeling the pain of Obamacare and the healthcare overhaul train wreck,” Hannity announced, “and six of them are here tonight to tell us their stories.” Three married couples were neatly arranged in his studio, the wives seated and the men standing behind them, like game show contestants.

As Hannity called on each of them, the guests recounted their “Obamacare” horror stories: canceled policies, premium hikes, restrictions on the freedom to see a doctor of their choice, financial burdens upon their small businesses and so on.

“These are the stories that the media refuses to cover,” Hannity interjected.

But none of it smelled right to me. Nothing these folks were saying jibed with the basic facts of the Affordable Care Act as I understand them. I understand them fairly well; I have worked as a senior adviser to a governor and helped him deal with the new federal rules.

I decided to hit the pavement. I tracked down Hannity’s guests, one by one, and did my own telephone interviews with them.

First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can’t grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven’t been forced to do so, it’s just that I’ve chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he’d call me back. He never did.

There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That’s all.

Inside the Fox News lie machine: I fact-checked Sean Hannity on Obamacare

 

[Mac1958]

Do yourself a favor...educate yourself.

Ironic that you would use that term, since I actually do have to educate myself by taking annual training on a variety of topics that include health insurance, health care administration and Medicare. Which is why I don't like the "plans" offered by either "side". What I don't do is push one side based on politics. How about you?

You can divert all you want. The fact remains that HHS told Obama this was going to happen, and now you left wing partisan ideologues are claiming that it's okay if people lose their plans because they're lousy plans anyway. You can spin his lies all you want, you can plant all the straw man arguments you want - you're defending lies. Have fun with that.

.

 

[Vox]

what does all this extended blah-blah-blah about hannity has to do with the simple truth that obamacare being a law written by insurance companies for insurance companies and guarded by the government - and all to rob the middle class - is an example of a fascist enterprise?

 

[Bfgrn]

Do yourself a favor...educate yourself.

Ironic that you would use that term, since I actually do have to educate myself by taking annual training on a variety of topics that include health insurance, health care administration and Medicare. Which is why I don't like the "plans" offered by either "side". What I don't do is push one side based on politics. How about you?

You can divert all you want. The fact remains that HHS told Obama this was going to happen, and now you left wing partisan ideologues are claiming that it's okay if people lose their plans because they're lousy plans anyway. You can spin his lies all you want, you can plant all the straw man arguments you want - you're defending lies. Have fun with that.

.

I don't 'side' with anyone but the people of this country. Insurance cartels are the source of the problem. If you are so 'educated' about health insurance, then the term 'medical loss ratio' should be very familiar to you. Every other industrialized nation has figured out that there is no 'free market' solution to health insurance. Liberals and progressives are not big supporters of the new law, but it is an improvement over the status quo. If the liberal and progressive wings of the Democratic Party had any power, we would have at least had a public option. The ability to PAY FOR Medicare before you are eligible for coverage.

The cost of doing nothing is always just 'forgotten' by all the right wing whiners and cry babies.


The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform

2008

The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.

Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.

Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.

We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.

Economic Cost

The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delaware’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.

Affordability

As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.

More

 

[The T]

Crap policy...squawwwwwkkkk, crap policy...........squawwwwwwwwwwk, Proggy want a cracker.....squawwwwwwk crap policy

 

[LoneLaugher]

I wonder what reason Mac was given for his wonderful plan being dropped? What part of the ACA was the plan not in compliance with? Was that information provided?

Is Mac buying insurance on the individual market for a family? For under $600? It is almost magical! Or...is Mac's plan employer sponsored? If so....what percentage of the total cost is his employer covering? Is that percentage remaining the same? Or is Mac's employer cutting his benefits and blaming Obamacare?

 

[The T]

Obama lies and his followers defend him.Now Obama justifies the lie by saying in not so many words
that people will be forced to pay more for some coverage they don't need and they should be thankful?

And republicans are the ones who are getting blamed for all this is the topping on the cake.

And the Republicans let this happen to themselves. At least the TEA party members have introduced a spine back into the party...

 

[Bfgrn]

I wonder what reason Mac was given for his wonderful plan being dropped? What part of the ACA was the plan not in compliance with? Was that information provided?

Is Mac buying insurance on the individual market for a family? For under $600? It is almost magical! Or...is Mac's plan employer sponsored? If so....what percentage of the total cost is his employer covering? Is that percentage remaining the same? Or is Mac's employer cutting his benefits and blaming Obamacare?

You are not allowed to ask for any documentation or facts. It's Obama's fault your tire was flat this morning.

But you do touch on the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Some employers are using 'Obamacare' as an excuse to cut worker's pay. A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages. If an employer cuts your insurance, then that money should go in your pocket, not his.

 

[Bfgrn]

Obama lies and his followers defend him.Now Obama justifies the lie by saying in not so many words
that people will be forced to pay more for some coverage they don't need and they should be thankful?

And republicans are the ones who are getting blamed for all this is the topping on the cake.

And the Republicans let this happen to themselves. At least the TEA party members have introduced a spine back into the party...

No one ever accused terrorists of not having a 'spine'.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I wonder what reason Mac was given for his wonderful plan being dropped? What part of the ACA was the plan not in compliance with? Was that information provided?

Is Mac buying insurance on the individual market for a family? For under $600? It is almost magical! Or...is Mac's plan employer sponsored? If so....what percentage of the total cost is his employer covering? Is that percentage remaining the same? Or is Mac's employer cutting his benefits and blaming Obamacare?

You are not allowed to ask for any documentation or facts. It's Obama's fault your tire was flat this morning.

But you do touch on the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Some employers are using 'Obamacare' as an excuse to cut worker's pay. A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages.

Mac seems like an intelligent enough person.....I am sure he has asked the same questions of Humana. They surely gave him a detailed reason for dropping him and convinced him to stay with them and pay $200+ more per month for a plan with fewer benefits. They must have.

 

[Mac1958]

A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages. If an employer cuts your insurance, then that money should go in your pocket, not his.

"A real thinking person"

Oh.

So you're one of those standard partisan ideologues who likes to tell themselves that anyone who disagrees with them is not a thinking person, or dumb, or stupid, or whatever.

Okay.

I grew out of that stuff in the 7th grade, but I guess that takes more time for some.

Regardless, you don't actually have to admit that Obama lied. Partisans will deny the obvious. No problem.

.

 

[LoneLaugher]

He didn't lie to me. I am keeping the plan I have. Thanks to my wife's employer and the insurance company we use through them. They have both decided to maintain the plan with a very minimal rate increase.

As it turns out, the statement he made while selling this plan did not hold true for everyone. That, to a person with limited ability or desire to see things in proper perspective, is SIMPLY the President LYING to the American people. No circumstances need be discussed! That's it. End of story! We win!!!!We told yiu so!

 

[Bfgrn]

A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages. If an employer cuts your insurance, then that money should go in your pocket, not his.

"A real thinking person"

Oh.

So you're one of those standard partisan ideologues who likes to tell themselves that anyone who disagrees with them is not a thinking person, or dumb, or stupid, or whatever.

Okay.

I grew out of that stuff in the 7th grade, but I guess that takes more time for some.

Regardless, you don't actually have to admit that Obama lied. Partisans will deny the obvious. No problem.

.

You mean last year?

You have not responded to any of the facts and information I posted. Maybe when you get to high school, huh?

One that confounds good and evil is an enemy to good.
Edmund Burke

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Just in case you wonder why you got negged.

policies...???

foreign policies, domestic policies, insurance policies,...???

Junk health insurance
Stingy plans may be worse than none at all
Consumer Reports magazine: March 2012

It might seem to be health insurance, if you don’t look too closely, and most people don’t. The premiums are surprisingly affordable. And so millions of unemployed people, service industry workers, and those taken in by fast-talking telemarketers sign up. They may think they’re insured—until they have a medical problem and find out that their coverage is as skimpy as a hospital gown.

The Affordable Care Act was supposed to usher in a new era of consumer-friendly health care. For instance, insurers are no longer allowed to put outrageously low limits on the amount they pay out for medical care in a year or lifetime.

While millions of Americans have benefited from that and other reforms, many are still prey to the kind of skimpy “junk” plans the new law was designed to eliminate. Some plans, known as mini-meds, are operated by employers and brand-name insurance companies with special dispensation from the federal government. Others, such as health discount cards and fixed benefit indemnity plans, from companies you’ve probably never heard of, are so meager that regulators don’t consider them to be health insurance at all—though that’s frequently not clear to consumers. And some of the companies operate one step ahead of the law.

Cheap Health Insurance - Consumer Reports

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Junk health insurance
Stingy plans may be worse than none at all
Consumer Reports magazine: March 2012

It might seem to be health insurance, if you don’t look too closely, and most people don’t. The premiums are surprisingly affordable. And so millions of unemployed people, service industry workers, and those taken in by fast-talking telemarketers sign up. They may think they’re insured—until they have a medical problem and find out that their coverage is as skimpy as a hospital gown.

The Affordable Care Act was supposed to usher in a new era of consumer-friendly health care. For instance, insurers are no longer allowed to put outrageously low limits on the amount they pay out for medical care in a year or lifetime.

While millions of Americans have benefited from that and other reforms, many are still prey to the kind of skimpy “junk” plans the new law was designed to eliminate. Some plans, known as mini-meds, are operated by employers and brand-name insurance companies with special dispensation from the federal government. Others, such as health discount cards and fixed benefit indemnity plans, from companies you’ve probably never heard of, are so meager that regulators don’t consider them to be health insurance at all—though that’s frequently not clear to consumers. And some of the companies operate one step ahead of the law.

Cheap Health Insurance - Consumer Reports

Well, at least someone tried to respond, and I appreciate that.

Definitely, those shitty "mini med" plans are lousy and probably don't even qualify as health insurance. We've probably all received emails and even faxes for these lousy "plans" that are essentially not much more than extremely limited discount plans with extremely limited, if any, networks.

But that's not what is happening a lion's share of the time.

Perfectly normal PPO plans, with traditional co-pays, deductibles and co-insurance, are being dropped by the hundreds of thousands, if not more. For example, the 70/30 PPO plan I had for myself and my family, $3,500 deductible, $35 office visit co-pays, drug co-pays, etc., was dropped by Humana. My premium will be going from $570 to the low $800's with a higher deductible, I think it's $6,000.

I was perfectly happy with my very effective (non-"junk") plan. Obama said I could keep it. Obama also said I would save $2,500 per year. Wrong.

He knew better. HHS told him. He lied.

.

Most mini meds aren't really insurance, they are more like coops. On the other hand, they do work for some people, and those people are happy with them.

 

[The T]

Obama lies and his followers defend him.Now Obama justifies the lie by saying in not so many words
that people will be forced to pay more for some coverage they don't need and they should be thankful?

And republicans are the ones who are getting blamed for all this is the topping on the cake.

And the Republicans let this happen to themselves. At least the TEA party members have introduced a spine back into the party...

No one ever accused terrorists of not having a 'spine'.

And what 'terrorists' do you speak of? The people that revere the Constitution? Liberty? Freedom? Shed the shackles of government control? THOSE terrorists?

Seems to me YOU have it backwards, and ARE one. YOU support those that seek total control and DENY liberty.

Seek help.

 

[Bfgrn]

And the Republicans let this happen to themselves. At least the TEA party members have introduced a spine back into the party...

No one ever accused terrorists of not having a 'spine'.

And what 'terrorists' do you speak of? The people that revere the Constitution? Liberty? Freedom? Shed the shackles of government control? THOSE terrorists?

Seems to me YOU have it backwards, and ARE one. YOU support those that seek total control and DENY liberty.

Seek help.

The pea brain T's idea of 'liberty'...

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I wonder what reason Mac was given for his wonderful plan being dropped? What part of the ACA was the plan not in compliance with? Was that information provided?

Is Mac buying insurance on the individual market for a family? For under $600? It is almost magical! Or...is Mac's plan employer sponsored? If so....what percentage of the total cost is his employer covering? Is that percentage remaining the same? Or is Mac's employer cutting his benefits and blaming Obamacare?

You are not allowed to ask for any documentation or facts. It's Obama's fault your tire was flat this morning.

But you do touch on the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Some employers are using 'Obamacare' as an excuse to cut worker's pay. A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages. If an employer cuts your insurance, then that money should go in your pocket, not his.

Not true. I pay 57 percent of costs in reference to healthcare coverage for my employees.

 

[Bfgrn]

I wonder what reason Mac was given for his wonderful plan being dropped? What part of the ACA was the plan not in compliance with? Was that information provided?

Is Mac buying insurance on the individual market for a family? For under $600? It is almost magical! Or...is Mac's plan employer sponsored? If so....what percentage of the total cost is his employer covering? Is that percentage remaining the same? Or is Mac's employer cutting his benefits and blaming Obamacare?

You are not allowed to ask for any documentation or facts. It's Obama's fault your tire was flat this morning.

But you do touch on the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Some employers are using 'Obamacare' as an excuse to cut worker's pay. A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages. If an employer cuts your insurance, then that money should go in your pocket, not his.

Not true. I pay 57 percent of costs in reference to healthcare coverage for my life employees.

IF you really were a businessman, which you are NOT, this would be econ 101. The health insurance you 'say' you are paying for is really wages deducted from that employee's value you are NOT paying, and getting a tax break.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

You are not allowed to ask for any documentation or facts. It's Obama's fault your tire was flat this morning.

But you do touch on the 800 lb. gorilla in the room. Some employers are using 'Obamacare' as an excuse to cut worker's pay. A REAL 'thinking' person would realize that no employer 'gives' you health insurance. YOU are the one paying for it, it is merely deferred wages. If an employer cuts your insurance, then that money should go in your pocket, not his.

Not true. I pay 57 percent of costs in reference to healthcare coverage for my life employees.

IF you really were a businessman, which you are NOT, this would be econ 101. The health insurance you 'say' you are paying for is really wages deducted from that employee's value you are NOT paying, and getting a tax break.

No. I'm paying through a group plan through several businesses. A portion of the healthcare expenditure is deductible. However, aca has deemed that the coverage isn't sufficient so I'll be ending coverage for my employees and dropping the number of hours they will be able to work. Now, they're going to have to go to the exchanges, pay higher premiums, higher deductibles. Everybody loses.