CDZ If you . . .

[rightwinger]

I do believe that government should definitely be limited to their constitutional jurisdictions though. The pants the government is wearing have gotten very LARGE indeed.

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

 

[Brian Blackwell]

If there were (far) more people who didn't want to be governed, we'd just vote it out of existence.

That's not going to happen, because most people recognize the net value of an organized civilization.

You're equating organization with the coercion of governmental authority. But organization is clearly possible absent violent coercion, as millions of voluntary organizations exist. This distinction is real and obvious, as are the points made in my previous post; so it would only require that (far) more people recognize the facts staring them in the face for authoritarian rule to wane.

The truth is resilient and has a tendency to pervade the public consciousness eventually, so to say it can never happen may put you alongside the southern plantation owner who argued this point against the abolitionist when history reviews our time.

 

[Brian Blackwell]

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

They do. So what valid complaint can you make against anything that's going on?

"We the People" decided, and they don't agree with you on many issues. So if you support the glorious democratic republic, suck it up and pay your welfare bill like a "responsible citizen".

 

[JoeMoma]

In my state people don't register to vote as Democrats or Republicans, so I find it kind of odd when people claim one or the other.

 

[rightwinger]

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

They do. So what valid complaint can you make against anything that's going on?

"We the People" decided, and they don't agree with you on many issues. So if you support the glorious democratic republic, suck it up and pay your welfare bill like a "responsible citizen".

As a citizen of this great nation I have no problem with supporting people in need

 

[JoeMoma]

I do believe that government should definitely be limited to their constitutional jurisdictions though. The pants the government is wearing have gotten very LARGE indeed.

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

We the People have a process for amending the constitution.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If you are a democrat, what democratic policies do you disagree with?

If you are a republican, what republican policies do you disagree with?

I find it very curious how people can just tow the party line in every single instance? I am starting this thread to find out exactly how much do people disagree with the respective parties? Do they disagree with them about any of their stances or policies? Are you always in COMPLETE agreement with your party, no matter their policies or their ways of going about getting what they want? Perhaps there are some tactics that your party uses that you might disagree with? I started this in the CDC because I actually want some answers instead of our usual battering of one another's views and party affiliations.

Thanks for your input.

Although I hate the thought of aborting a child, I cannot agree that it should be illegal. If my wife aborted my child, I would leave her. When I was dating, and was told the woman I was dating had had an abortion, I broke off the relationships. Those were the choices I was left with. Bringing the law into it was not, and should not be an option.

Although I do not like gay marriage, I find the illegality of it hard to defend. Marriage should be a social contract, not a government authorized relationship in the first place.

I also believe in legalizing Pot. The increased competition for recreational drugs drives down the cost of Beer, and that's GOOD ENOUGH A REASON FOR ME!

You might want to reconsider whether you would leave a woman because she had an abortion. All abortions are done for a very good reason and it's likely you would agree with the reason your wife/girlfriend chose abortion.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

They do. So what valid complaint can you make against anything that's going on?

"We the People" decided, and they don't agree with you on many issues. So if you support the glorious democratic republic, suck it up and pay your welfare bill like a "responsible citizen".

As a citizen of this great nation I have no problem with supporting people in need

It never ceases to amaze me that anyone would be or could be against helping our vets, our active military, the elderly, children, or others who need help. Almost all of those who are against food stamps and Meals on Wheels SAY they are "christian".

In any event, most recipients of food stamps are employed.

 

[Pop23]

If you are a democrat, what democratic policies do you disagree with?

If you are a republican, what republican policies do you disagree with?

I find it very curious how people can just tow the party line in every single instance? I am starting this thread to find out exactly how much do people disagree with the respective parties? Do they disagree with them about any of their stances or policies? Are you always in COMPLETE agreement with your party, no matter their policies or their ways of going about getting what they want? Perhaps there are some tactics that your party uses that you might disagree with? I started this in the CDC because I actually want some answers instead of our usual battering of one another's views and party affiliations.

Thanks for your input.

Although I hate the thought of aborting a child, I cannot agree that it should be illegal. If my wife aborted my child, I would leave her. When I was dating, and was told the woman I was dating had had an abortion, I broke off the relationships. Those were the choices I was left with. Bringing the law into it was not, and should not be an option.

Although I do not like gay marriage, I find the illegality of it hard to defend. Marriage should be a social contract, not a government authorized relationship in the first place.

I also believe in legalizing Pot. The increased competition for recreational drugs drives down the cost of Beer, and that's GOOD ENOUGH A REASON FOR ME!

You might want to reconsider whether you would leave a woman because she had an abortion. All abortions are done for a very good reason and it's likely you would agree with the reason your wife/girlfriend chose abortion.

No, I've left women for that reason (not married to them). They did not display the courage of their conviction. The possible exception would have been a life threatening situation caused by the pregnancy (and no, economic or psychological would not have counted in my thinking)

 

[Brian Blackwell]

As a citizen of this great nation I have no problem with supporting people in need

So go ahead. But the fact that you don't have a problem getting robbed to do it, or robbing others, negates any purported good will you'd like to suppose about yourself, or the "great nation".

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That's a pretty big "tribe".

It encompasses libertarians, although I don't cotton to libertarians on every issue.

It encompasses Republicrats to one degree or another, but they love them some authority on a lot of issues.

It encompasses even some democrooks, but they haven't pipped up yet for fear of outing themselves.

The "tribes" the OP is about are the DNC and GOP.

Those who side with the GOP only because they're repulsed by the DNC are not a "tribe", their points of view vary far too much. If anything they're "middle of the road".

The democrooks all appear to be far left loons.


.

What I'm seeing is that each party has two primary components. Layers can be found within each, of course, but in general, each has two.

The GOP has the Trump fans and the more traditional Republicans, the people who Trump fans will call RINOs. The Trump fans have taken over the party.

The Democrats have the more traditional liberals and the Regressive Leftists, who are illiberal leftist authoritarians. The Regressives have taken over the party.

The tribal behaviors are most obvious in the Trump fans and the Regressives. It's the old Political Horseshoe theory, in which the ends of the spectrum are closer to each other than they are to the middle. And trying to communicate with either is terribly difficult.
.

Trump fans? Most people voted for Trump as a way to send Washington an important message and because many of his speeches and rhetoric had to do with ACTUAL ISSUES that most Americans are facing, instead of transgender bathrooms, gay rights, abortions, and pandering to illegal immigrants, as the opposition was trying to convince people to vote for her because it was "her turn" and because she has a vagina. Oh, and let's not forget about higher taxes to support all the new "refugees" as well as governmental interference in our constitutional RIGHTS. What a "winning" platform for the thinking person, eh?

Well, that's a good commercial.
.

So tell me, what was the democrat platform in this last election. What convinced you that you should vote for Hillary exactly?

Well, two things.

First, she was closer to me on the issues, which I lay out in the link at the end of the second line of my sig.

Second, I was, and remain, horrified and embarrassed with Trump being our President.

With Hillary as the nominee, I would much rather have voted third party. But I knew that if either Trump or Cruz got the GOP nomination, I'd have to vote for her.
.

This is close to my own opinions. I still feel disbelief and humiliation when I see or hear trump. Or read his idiotic twits.

There is no doubt that Hillary was the most qualified and most experienced candidate in our history. It was also proven that she was/is the most honest while we all know that trump cannot get through a sentence without lying. Even the Repubs finally had to admit there was no there there. Some of the Repub congress should have been forced to resign or at the very least censured for voting against embassy security and then, 4 people were killed, pretending to "investigate" Hillary. Inexcusable, indefensible.

This concerns something I hate about the Dem party - that they don't fight the RW lying. With Hillary, she and others incorrectly assessed the voter's ability to see through trump's daily litany of lies. Even now, there are those who actually believe the lies from trump, Fox, Brietbart, info wars, etc.

We now have state sanctioned media. Watch even one program on Fox and you see them repeat trump's lies and call it the truth. That's shocking to me. I'm also horrified that trump attacks the Constitution every day and his fans love it.

I wish the Dem party would learn from the gop machine and copy some of their methods - BUT honestly.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

As a citizen of this great nation I have no problem with supporting people in need

So go ahead. But the fact that you don't have a problem getting robbed to do it, or robbing others, negates any purported good will you'd like to suppose about yourself, or the "great nation".

Please read my post, #268 ^.

Thank you.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

If you are a democrat, what democratic policies do you disagree with?

If you are a republican, what republican policies do you disagree with?

I find it very curious how people can just tow the party line in every single instance? I am starting this thread to find out exactly how much do people disagree with the respective parties? Do they disagree with them about any of their stances or policies? Are you always in COMPLETE agreement with your party, no matter their policies or their ways of going about getting what they want? Perhaps there are some tactics that your party uses that you might disagree with? I started this in the CDC because I actually want some answers instead of our usual battering of one another's views and party affiliations.

Thanks for your input.

Although I hate the thought of aborting a child, I cannot agree that it should be illegal. If my wife aborted my child, I would leave her. When I was dating, and was told the woman I was dating had had an abortion, I broke off the relationships. Those were the choices I was left with. Bringing the law into it was not, and should not be an option.

Although I do not like gay marriage, I find the illegality of it hard to defend. Marriage should be a social contract, not a government authorized relationship in the first place.

I also believe in legalizing Pot. The increased competition for recreational drugs drives down the cost of Beer, and that's GOOD ENOUGH A REASON FOR ME!

You might want to reconsider whether you would leave a woman because she had an abortion. All abortions are done for a very good reason and it's likely you would agree with the reason your wife/girlfriend chose abortion.

No, I've left women for that reason (not married to them). They did not display the courage of their conviction. The possible exception would have been a life threatening situation caused by the pregnancy (and no, economic or psychological would not have counted in my thinking)

This is something I'll never understand or agree with - that a fetus so sick or malformed that life would be short and agonizing should delivered. I hate that "christians" want fetuses to be tortured. I just don't get that. I also hate their constant lies about abortion - like BABIES being killed at the time of delivery. Too many people believe that BS and it leads to even more suffering of fetuses.

I will not argue this any further. Its been said over and over and its clear that the pro-birthers don't give a damn about the welfare or heart breaking ordeal of fetuses, babies and their mothers and fathers.

 

[Pop23]

If you are a democrat, what democratic policies do you disagree with?

If you are a republican, what republican policies do you disagree with?

I find it very curious how people can just tow the party line in every single instance? I am starting this thread to find out exactly how much do people disagree with the respective parties? Do they disagree with them about any of their stances or policies? Are you always in COMPLETE agreement with your party, no matter their policies or their ways of going about getting what they want? Perhaps there are some tactics that your party uses that you might disagree with? I started this in the CDC because I actually want some answers instead of our usual battering of one another's views and party affiliations.

Thanks for your input.

Although I hate the thought of aborting a child, I cannot agree that it should be illegal. If my wife aborted my child, I would leave her. When I was dating, and was told the woman I was dating had had an abortion, I broke off the relationships. Those were the choices I was left with. Bringing the law into it was not, and should not be an option.

Although I do not like gay marriage, I find the illegality of it hard to defend. Marriage should be a social contract, not a government authorized relationship in the first place.

I also believe in legalizing Pot. The increased competition for recreational drugs drives down the cost of Beer, and that's GOOD ENOUGH A REASON FOR ME!

You might want to reconsider whether you would leave a woman because she had an abortion. All abortions are done for a very good reason and it's likely you would agree with the reason your wife/girlfriend chose abortion.

No, I've left women for that reason (not married to them). They did not display the courage of their conviction. The possible exception would have been a life threatening situation caused by the pregnancy (and no, economic or psychological would not have counted in my thinking)

This is something I'll never understand or agree with - that a fetus so sick or malformed that life would be short and agonizing should delivered. I hate that "christians" want fetuses to be tortured. I just don't get that. I also hate their constant lies about abortion - like BABIES being killed at the time of delivery. Too many people believe that BS and it leads to even more suffering of fetuses.

I will not argue this any further. Its been said over and over and its clear that the pro-birthers don't give a damn about the welfare or heart breaking ordeal of fetuses, babies and their mothers and fathers.

Um, I could care less what you think.

Here's the deal. I do not oppose legal abortion. GOT THAT. And just as I don't oppose legal pot, does not mean I will use it, or allow it to be used in my home.

 

[candycorn]

The OP is about how you differ from the Party you usually vote for....not what anyone else thinks

 

[rightwinger]

I do believe that government should definitely be limited to their constitutional jurisdictions though. The pants the government is wearing have gotten very LARGE indeed.

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

We the People have a process for amending the constitution.

Not really necessary

The Constitution established our branches of government
We just need to use them as necessary

Constitution is not a cookbook telling you what meals you are allowed to make....it built a kitchen for future generations to use

 

[Brian Blackwell]

It never ceases to amaze me that anyone would be or could be against helping our vets, our active military, the elderly, children, or others who need help. Almost all of those who are against food stamps and Meals on Wheels SAY they are "christian"..

So you stand on a platform of "equal rights" while defending the inherent inequality of rights between lawmakers and the people. Can I make law for my neighbor, that he must obey under threat of violent punishment? No, but if we embrace a series of political rituals, then - POOF! - it's all perfectly moral. Congress may make such laws, as may we, via their illusory power. You believe in dark magic - the transmutation of immoral action into moral action.

No, I don't want to help military dogs who left conscience and reason at the door and agreed to obey orders without first critically evaluating the moral nature of those commands. They are the enemies of humanity, and all man-made atrocities have been done at the hands of such degraded, self-loathing aberrations, from the death of Christ (should such a person ever have existed) to the bombing of Hiroshima. And I may willingly choose to help others, but to forcibly extort "charity" makes it a moral crime, not a blessing.

A civilized society uses persuasion, not force, to garner assent. If you think you've got a claim to any sort of moral high ground, you are lost in a world of shadow. I hope you will consider my words in the spirit they are offered - with an earnest desire to see humanity's uplift, whereby we all do our individual part in creating a free, peaceful, and prosperous world society.

Your part is to understand the difference between right and wrong clearly, so that what you support accurately reflects your compassionate motivations, which I do not doubt for an instant.

 

[rightwinger]

As a citizen of this great nation I have no problem with supporting people in need

So go ahead. But the fact that you don't have a problem getting robbed to do it, or robbing others, negates any purported good will you'd like to suppose about yourself, or the "great nation".

The robber barons are up above us.......not the ones who are struggling to survive

 

[Brian Blackwell]

[The robber barons are up above us.......not the ones who are struggling to survive

Exactly, so my opposition to welfare programs funded through taxation is not opposition to helping those struggling people. It's targeted at those robbers. Equally, your support of such government programs is support of those barons, not those trying to survive. YOU are the robber baron if you support the robber barons' solutions, because they do so via the justification of your support.

 

[JoeMoma]

I do believe that government should definitely be limited to their constitutional jurisdictions though. The pants the government is wearing have gotten very LARGE indeed.

I think We the People should decide what roles we want our government to fill

We the People have a process for amending the constitution.

Not really necessary

The Constitution established our branches of government
We just need to use them as necessary

Constitution is not a cookbook telling you what meals you are allowed to make....it built a kitchen for future generations to use

So now we can simply ignore the constitution and do what ever we want... cool.