Illegal Citizens Could Sway Elections

[Skylar]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

 

[Katzndogz]

If they are illegal they aren't citizens.

 

[BluesLegend]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

We were talking about the Democrats desire to grant illegals amnesty and the vote.

 

[Skylar]

If they are illegal they aren't citizens.

The source material (The Old Dominican study) doesn't use the term 'illegal'. It uses the term 'non-citizens'. The OP uses the term 'illegal', because he's intentionally trying to infer that these were illegal aliens voting. The source material never says this. And strongly suggests this isn't the case. As these folks overwhelmingly had ID. And ID generally wasn't issued to illegals in 2008.

Meaning that the non-citizens we're speaking of are almost certainly legal immigrants. Who are issued ID.

 

[Skylar]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

We were talking about the Democrats desire to grant illegals amnesty and the vote.

As long as we're clear that the 'illegals' in the OP are non-citizens voting illegally. And not necessarily illegal aliens.

 

[OKTexas]

So 6.3% voter fraud was estimated in 2008.

This is research by Old Dominion University.

Now, what do we want to do with this information?

Ignore it as complete horseshit. WHich it is.

How so?

The Bush administration spend millions trying to find voter fraud. They found all of 22 people who voted illegally, and most of them because of honest mistakes, not fraud.

Whenever a right winger squeals about "voter fraud', what they really mean is "The darkies are voting".

Ok, now that you have cried racism and made you best attempt at deflection, how about actually reading the article and tell me how it is horse shit.

 

[OKTexas]

It's silly to have this discussion, but this is really angry white people pissing themselves they no longer have a monopoly on power.

7 papers 4 government inquiries 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth - The Washington Post

A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.

In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

The New York Times examined five years of Justice Department records and turned up only 26 convictions of fraud by individual voters. "Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules." And many of the cases were "linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support." Overall, the Times concluded that "the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections."

It only took 2 illegal votes to sway a local election here in TX, one has already been convicted, the other will be soon. Voter ID would have prevented this, their registration did not match their ID.

 

[Papageorgio]

QSTs......

Why is it that when we debate the issue of "voter fraud", right wingers immediately assume that it benefits the left?

Should we then also assume that during the last elections, when republicans did very well, that voters' fraud occurred?

Are polling workers ALL complicit (and lefties) in allowing ineligible voters to have a free hand with ballots?

The research showed it benefited the Democrats, but who cares, it voter fraud, shouldn't both parties be concerned?

 

[Skylar]

It's silly to have this discussion, but this is really angry white people pissing themselves they no longer have a monopoly on power.

7 papers 4 government inquiries 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth - The Washington Post

A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.

In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

The New York Times examined five years of Justice Department records and turned up only 26 convictions of fraud by individual voters. "Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules." And many of the cases were "linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support." Overall, the Times concluded that "the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections."

It only too 2 illegal votes to sway a local election here in TX, one has already been convicted, the other will be soon. Voter ID would have prevented this, their registration did not match their ID.

There were 54,000,000 votes cast in Texas in the 10 year period in question. There were 2 instances of in person voter fraud....the only type of voter fraud that Voter ID could possibly prevent. That's a fraud rate of 0.0000037%

To put it perspective for you, if you were making a trip across the US, 0.0000037% would be less than a 1/16th of an inch of your journey.

 

[Papageorgio]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

Call them what you want, they were not eligible to vote, therefore it is voter fraud.

 

[Skylar]

QSTs......

Why is it that when we debate the issue of "voter fraud", right wingers immediately assume that it benefits the left?

Should we then also assume that during the last elections, when republicans did very well, that voters' fraud occurred?

Are polling workers ALL complicit (and lefties) in allowing ineligible voters to have a free hand with ballots?

The research showed it benefited the Democrats, but who cares, it voter fraud, shouldn't both parties be concerned?

Absolutely. I lean left of center and I fully support preventing non-citizens from voting. As I said at my first comment in this thread, we need to be more dilligent in our registration process.

 

[Skylar]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

Call them what you want, they were not eligible to vote, therefore it is voter fraud.

I'll call them what they are: non-citizens voting illegally. Not 'illegals voting'. Because the latter brings in all sorts of baggage that likely has very little relevance to this issue.

The rate of non-citizens who were registered to vote actually voting was virtually the same in states that required an ID as in those that didn't. Standing as powerful evidence that these were legal immigrants we're talking about. As IDs generally weren't issued to illegal immigrants in the time period the study is measuring.

 

[Papageorgio]

Should we then also assume that during the last elections, when republicans did very well, that voters' fraud occurred?

What a great question. Now I know why the Republicans did so well last election.
FRAUD.

Wouldn't you agree Pap? Staph? Voter fraud was why Republicans did well. Not gerrymandering. Not refuting Obama. But plain ole voter fraud.

Maybe it is a bigger problem than I initially thought.

Zeke, would you agree that any voter fraud is wrong and needs to be taken care of? Earlier you said no, now you say yes. Interesting why you would change your mind.

 

[Papageorgio]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

Call them what you want, they were not eligible to vote, therefore it is voter fraud.

I'll call them what they are: non-citizens voting illegally. Not 'illegals voting'. Because the latter brings in all sorts of baggage that likely has very little relevance to this issue.

The rate of non-citizens who were registered to vote actually voting was virtually the same in states that required an ID as in those that didn't. Standing as powerful evidence that these were legal immigrants we're talking about. As IDs generally weren't issued to illegal immigrants in the time period the study is measuring.

You are correct, legal ID was not issued, however illegal ID is readily available for those that want it.

 

[OKTexas]

It's silly to have this discussion, but this is really angry white people pissing themselves they no longer have a monopoly on power.

7 papers 4 government inquiries 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth - The Washington Post

A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.

In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

The New York Times examined five years of Justice Department records and turned up only 26 convictions of fraud by individual voters. "Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules." And many of the cases were "linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support." Overall, the Times concluded that "the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections."

It only too 2 illegal votes to sway a local election here in TX, one has already been convicted, the other will be soon. Voter ID would have prevented this, their registration did not match their ID.

There were 54,000,000 votes cast in Texas in the 10 year period in question. There were 2 instances of in person voter fraud....the only type of voter fraud that Voter ID could possibly prevent. That's a fraud rate of 0.0000037%

To put it perspective for you, if you were making a trip across the US, 0.0000037% would be less than a 1/16th of an inch of your journey.

Has nothing to do with my point, this was a small utility district where only 17 people were eligible to vote in it. That's the kind of elections where fraud can have the greatest impact. In this case only two fraudulent votes changed the results.

 

[Skylar]

It's silly to have this discussion, but this is really angry white people pissing themselves they no longer have a monopoly on power.

7 papers 4 government inquiries 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth - The Washington Post

A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.

In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

The New York Times examined five years of Justice Department records and turned up only 26 convictions of fraud by individual voters. "Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules." And many of the cases were "linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support." Overall, the Times concluded that "the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections."

It only too 2 illegal votes to sway a local election here in TX, one has already been convicted, the other will be soon. Voter ID would have prevented this, their registration did not match their ID.

There were 54,000,000 votes cast in Texas in the 10 year period in question. There were 2 instances of in person voter fraud....the only type of voter fraud that Voter ID could possibly prevent. That's a fraud rate of 0.0000037%

To put it perspective for you, if you were making a trip across the US, 0.0000037% would be less than a 1/16th of an inch of your journey.

Has nothing to do with my point, this was a small utility district where only 17 people were eligible to vote in it. That's the kind of elections where fraud can have the greatest impact. In this case only two fraudulent votes changed the results.

Imposing laws that prevent people from being able to vote would change the results of elections. And there were estimated to be thousands of Texans were weren't able to vote that wanted to as a result of voter ID laws.

You must take into account the effects of voter ID laws in suppressing voting when determining their effect on democracy. As by your own standards, the effects of voter ID laws in changing election outcomes were orders and orders and orders of magnitude more severe than a 0.0000037% rate of in person voter ID fraud.

 

[Skylar]

I think the left banking on illegals voting for them is going to boomerang on their ass. Every Hispanic I know is hard working and has a strong desire to increase their wealth, that doesn't fit the left's welfare voter for life mold.

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

Call them what you want, they were not eligible to vote, therefore it is voter fraud.

I'll call them what they are: non-citizens voting illegally. Not 'illegals voting'. Because the latter brings in all sorts of baggage that likely has very little relevance to this issue.

The rate of non-citizens who were registered to vote actually voting was virtually the same in states that required an ID as in those that didn't. Standing as powerful evidence that these were legal immigrants we're talking about. As IDs generally weren't issued to illegal immigrants in the time period the study is measuring.

You are correct, legal ID was not issued, however illegal ID is readily available for those that want it.

There's no evidence that this was an issue. As there's no instance of what you're describing noted by the studies being cited.

The issue is one of registration. Where non-citizens are allowed to register to vote. This is where our efforts should be focused.

 

[Papageorgio]

All we can do is hope that's the case. You know many of them who came in and did things the RIGHT way to become a citizen... has to be ticked off these "illegals" are getting a hand up and being moved to front of them...We saw one post recently how "dreamers" were being hired for teachers in Colorado and other states. .that should bother EVERY legal citizen who could have filled those positions

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

Call them what you want, they were not eligible to vote, therefore it is voter fraud.

I'll call them what they are: non-citizens voting illegally. Not 'illegals voting'. Because the latter brings in all sorts of baggage that likely has very little relevance to this issue.

The rate of non-citizens who were registered to vote actually voting was virtually the same in states that required an ID as in those that didn't. Standing as powerful evidence that these were legal immigrants we're talking about. As IDs generally weren't issued to illegal immigrants in the time period the study is measuring.

You are correct, legal ID was not issued, however illegal ID is readily available for those that want it.

There's no evidence that this was an issue. As there's no instance of what you're describing noted by the studies being cited.

The issue is one of registration. Where non-citizens are allowed to register to vote. This is where our efforts should be focused.

You are correct, those that come into this country illegally and obtain ID illegally doesn't mean they are going to drive illegally, take government money illegally, or vote illegally.

Voter ID cards, with a DL that marks whether a person is eligible to vote and cleaning the voter rolls would be a good start to stopping aliens from illegally voting.

BTW, our efforts can focus where ever we want.

 

[OKTexas]

It's silly to have this discussion, but this is really angry white people pissing themselves they no longer have a monopoly on power.

7 papers 4 government inquiries 2 news investigations and 1 court ruling proving voter fraud is mostly a myth - The Washington Post

A two-year investigation by Iowa's Republican secretary of state found evidence of 117 possible fraudulent votes and led to just six - six! - criminal convictions.

In 2011 a Wisconsin task force found sufficient evidence to charge 20 people with fraudulent voting in the 2008 elections. Most of these were felons who were ineligible to vote.

Kansas' secretary of state examined 84 million votes cast in 22 states to look for duplicate registrants. In the end 14 cases were referred for prosecution, representing 0.00000017 percent of the votes cast.

The New York Times examined five years of Justice Department records and turned up only 26 convictions of fraud by individual voters. "Many of those charged by the Justice Department appear to have mistakenly filled out registration forms or misunderstood eligibility rules." And many of the cases were "linked to small vote-buying schemes in which candidates generally in sheriff’s or judge’s races paid voters for their support." Overall, the Times concluded that "the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections."

It only too 2 illegal votes to sway a local election here in TX, one has already been convicted, the other will be soon. Voter ID would have prevented this, their registration did not match their ID.

There were 54,000,000 votes cast in Texas in the 10 year period in question. There were 2 instances of in person voter fraud....the only type of voter fraud that Voter ID could possibly prevent. That's a fraud rate of 0.0000037%

To put it perspective for you, if you were making a trip across the US, 0.0000037% would be less than a 1/16th of an inch of your journey.

Has nothing to do with my point, this was a small utility district where only 17 people were eligible to vote in it. That's the kind of elections where fraud can have the greatest impact. In this case only two fraudulent votes changed the results.

Imposing laws that prevent people from being able to vote would change the results of elections. And there were estimated to be thousands of Texans were weren't able to vote that wanted to as a result of voter ID laws.

You must take into account the effects of voter ID laws in suppressing voting when determining their effect on democracy. As by your own standards, the effects of voter ID laws in changing election outcomes were orders and orders and orders of magnitude more severe than a 0.0000037% rate of in person voter ID fraud.

So now your estimates are more credible than others. The fact that a very low percentage of speeders are caught, doesn't mean people don't speed. Very few criminals are actually caught, if they were people wouldn't be tempted to break the law. The estimates made in TX of supposed voter suppression have been proven to be untrue and they were made by people opposing voter ID, hardly an unbiased estimate.

 

[Skylar]

The OP makes no mention of illegal aliens voting. But non-citizen immigrants. These were almost certainly legal immigrants. And 3 in 4 who were registered voted in states with voter ID laws. A rate of 75%. The rate of voting non-citizens who were registered in states without voter ID was the same 75%. The rate of voting for those among those registered in the population at large comparison was about 85%.

The OP title was intentionally crafted to make you think its illegals voting. When in fact, its almost certainly legal immigrants.

Call them what you want, they were not eligible to vote, therefore it is voter fraud.

I'll call them what they are: non-citizens voting illegally. Not 'illegals voting'. Because the latter brings in all sorts of baggage that likely has very little relevance to this issue.

The rate of non-citizens who were registered to vote actually voting was virtually the same in states that required an ID as in those that didn't. Standing as powerful evidence that these were legal immigrants we're talking about. As IDs generally weren't issued to illegal immigrants in the time period the study is measuring.

You are correct, legal ID was not issued, however illegal ID is readily available for those that want it.

There's no evidence that this was an issue. As there's no instance of what you're describing noted by the studies being cited.

The issue is one of registration. Where non-citizens are allowed to register to vote. This is where our efforts should be focused.

You are correct, those that come into this country illegally and obtain ID illegally doesn't mean they are going to drive illegally, take government money illegally, or vote illegally.

There's no indication that this involved illegal immigrants. The source material never mentions illegals. But non-citizens. There's no difference in voting participation among registered non-citizens when there are voter ID laws.

Your claims about fake ID are unsupported by the evidence being presented.

BTW, our efforts can focus where ever we want.

Can? Sure. Should? Probably not.

There are some areas that are more relevant to election integrity than others. In terms of election integrity, voter ID laws are among the dumbest applications of energy imaginable. As the only type of fraud it can prevent is virtually non-existent.

Most fraud are registration errors (ineligible folks registering to vote unknowingly), registration fraud (ineligible folks registering to vote knowingly), double voting (voting in multiple precincts) or absentee balloting fraud.

Registration is intimately linked to three of the four. Thus, it would make a hell of a lot of sense to focus our efforts there. Rather than a type of fraud that has a 0.0000037% occurrence rate. Which, by the way, is far, far lower than being struck by lightning.