Debate Now I'm Leaving! Who Is With Me?

[Derideo_Te]

Yes, indeed, starting landlocked is not exactly the brightest of tactical moves. Somewhere with a nice coastline is prolly good.

I recommend Vancouver.

Not Florida though cuz quite a lot of the shore line will soon be under water.

It will? When?

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

If you want to discuss climate change, we actually have an Environment Forum for that purpose.

Thanks.

Hey bucko, you brought it up not me. Stay on topic yourself.

Nope. I was on topic.

I was talking about appropriate places for these tiny countries.

Water is a necessity but too much or too little and - well, we all know how that would go.

The US would be giving foreign aid and sending CARE packages.

How would that be any different than today other than the name of the location receiving it?

But it does raise an interesting question.

Does the world really need more 3rd world nations such as the BCSA?

 

[TheOldSchool]

Determining our foreign policy should be fascinating.

 

[westwall]

Yes, indeed, starting landlocked is not exactly the brightest of tactical moves. Somewhere with a nice coastline is prolly good.

I recommend Vancouver.

Not Florida though cuz quite a lot of the shore line will soon be under water.

It will? When?

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

If you want to discuss climate change, we actually have an Environment Forum for that purpose.

Thanks.

Hey bucko, you brought it up not me. Stay on topic yourself.

Nope. I was on topic.

I was talking about appropriate places for these tiny countries.

Water is a necessity but too much or too little and - well, we all know how that would go.

The US would be giving foreign aid and sending CARE packages.

And you had to interject your global warming belief that Florida will be under water. See how that works silly person. Florida would actually be a good choice for a fledgling country. One of the best in point of fact.

 

[westwall]

I do think that if you are planning to secede, it is good to send an Emissary to the former Republic to which you once belonged. Someone with gravitas, someone with Kansas deep in his bones.... someone with... well... I think you can find a name.

Also, in order to spare a nasty and costly war, perhaps a trade between the fledgling Breadbasket States of America (BSA) and the former Republic known as the USA, something like giving us all your brightest and most brilliant and we give you Idaho.

The BasketCase States of America will need more than to just send an emissary. They will need to go with the ability to broker a trade deal and a peace treaty. Now given that the Congress has decided that it can veto trade deals and peace treaties made by the potus you are actually going to need an entire delegation so that you are adequately represented to the members of Congress. Oh, and don't forget the slush fund to pay off the lobbyists, etc.

Just the initial cost of this mission is likely to bankrupt the fledgling BasketCase States of America. Do they have enough in the way of "foreign currency" to purchase the necessary dollars to even afford to say in the DC hotels?

Very true.

All negotiations start with the promise of trading one thing for another. What would the BCSA have to trade to the USA?

Excellent question. Right now the areas proposed by the OP are all net recipients of Federal tax dollars. They will be starting in a tax hole without those funds right from the outset. Going to be embarrassing for the BCSA to crawl back to the USA begging for a handout given that they just told it where to shove it's Constitution and government.

Which is why we're still supporting Texass and other red states that don't earn their own keep.

Foxfyre? Solutions?

Still relying on that silly meme.... Sad, just sad. How many military bases are there in Texas? THAT'S where all of that Federal money is going silly person. NOT WELFARE.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Will all these tiny parcels be cut off form the outside world? Or do you plan to negotiate contracts with the US in order to have telephone, electricity, cell, etc?

How about clothing and other necessities? Will you negotiate trade contracts to buy from the US or produce everything yourself?

Sorry to be so pragmatic but I'm sure you already have your plans in place.

And then there's the issue of satellite leasing...

 

[Statistikhengst]

I am sorry. In your poll, I don't see "pineapple". Maybe there was a software failure??



Now, as to the actual, uhm, declaration of Independence, have you decided if your blessed stretch of territory has enough firepower to defend itself, should the USA not necessarily like seeing Cowtown, Kansas secede?

I move for a Gandhi like resistance – simply refuse to participate until we are allowed our own governance.
Are you ready and willing to obliterate those who are willing to live in peace?

Are you talking about military firepower alone? Or are you including other kinds of passive resistance, like, oh, say, refusing to pay taxes. That sort of thing.

Which of course brings us to the question of whether or not a sovereign country would be allowed to use infrastructure without paying their fair share of the maintenance and repair.

And how about mineral rights and the use of water that belongs to the US?

Just wondering how this would be handled.

When the original revolutionaries seceded from England, they didn't worry about what belonged to England. I suspect a lot of modern revolutionaries would figure they had paid for whatever the new nation would claim as its own.

True. This is usually acheived by war and the spoils of victory.

But the fledgling USA enlisted the help of the Germans and the French in order to separate itself from the Crown of England. Mebbe Mexico could help the Breadbasket States of America.

Not Mexico. They would lose more than they would gain. Germany and France saw siding with the USA back then as a way to hurt Britain.

So in today's world it is going to be nations like Russia, North Korea and Iran who would offer military assistance to the BasketCase States of America since they already have a beef with the USA.

So, are you saying that the Breadbasket Basketcase States of America could theoretically ally themselves with powers like North Korea and Iran to achieve their long-dreamt-of goal of freedom from tyranny?

Hmmmm, what happens when another freedom and liberty loving state formerly known as Arkansas comes into the Breadbasket Basketcase fold? Wouldn't the BBBCSA High Council thingy have problems with Tom Cotton?

 

[Derideo_Te]

I do think that if you are planning to secede, it is good to send an Emissary to the former Republic to which you once belonged. Someone with gravitas, someone with Kansas deep in his bones.... someone with... well... I think you can find a name.

Also, in order to spare a nasty and costly war, perhaps a trade between the fledgling Breadbasket States of America (BSA) and the former Republic known as the USA, something like giving us all your brightest and most brilliant and we give you Idaho.

The BasketCase States of America will need more than to just send an emissary. They will need to go with the ability to broker a trade deal and a peace treaty. Now given that the Congress has decided that it can veto trade deals and peace treaties made by the potus you are actually going to need an entire delegation so that you are adequately represented to the members of Congress. Oh, and don't forget the slush fund to pay off the lobbyists, etc.

Just the initial cost of this mission is likely to bankrupt the fledgling BasketCase States of America. Do they have enough in the way of "foreign currency" to purchase the necessary dollars to even afford to say in the DC hotels?

Very true.

All negotiations start with the promise of trading one thing for another. What would the BCSA have to trade to the USA?

Excellent question. Right now the areas proposed by the OP are all net recipients of Federal tax dollars. They will be starting in a tax hole without those funds right from the outset. Going to be embarrassing for the BCSA to crawl back to the USA begging for a handout given that they just told it where to shove it's Constitution and government.

Which is why we're still supporting Texass and other red states that don't earn their own keep.

Foxfyre? Solutions?

Still relying on that silly meme.... Sad, just sad. How many military bases are there in Texas? THAT'S where all of that Federal money is going silly person. NOT WELFARE.

There are only 16 military bases in TX but 25 in CA. How come TX gets more federal aid dollars than CA? Montana gets a higher percentage of federal aid than TX but it only has 1 base.

Military Bases by State

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxf...al-Aid-as-a-Percentage-of-State-Revenue_0.png

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Not Florida though cuz quite a lot of the shore line will soon be under water.

It will? When?

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

If you want to discuss climate change, we actually have an Environment Forum for that purpose.

Thanks.

Hey bucko, you brought it up not me. Stay on topic yourself.

Nope. I was on topic.

I was talking about appropriate places for these tiny countries.

Water is a necessity but too much or too little and - well, we all know how that would go.

The US would be giving foreign aid and sending CARE packages.

How would that be any different than today other than the name of the location receiving it?

But it does raise an interesting question.

Does the world really need more 3rd world nations such as the BCSA?

Agree. And its the same with infrastructure, utilities, law and order, necessities ... Will these tiny countries produce all of the themselves? Or will they rent from the parent state/country, as we all do now?

 

[Statistikhengst]

Might I suggest you choose a better tract of land first. You need access to the sea so that your "country" can't be strangled before it even gets a chance to begin.

Yes, indeed, starting landlocked is not exactly the brightest of tactical moves. Somewhere with a nice coastline is prolly good.

I recommend Vancouver.

Not Florida though cuz quite a lot of the shore line will soon be under water.

It will? When?

Hmmm, let's check our watches on that:

Darn. This is what happens when I don't buy a fine, handcrafted watch from the Breadbasket Basketcase States of America.

My bad.

Ok, method no. 2: hold your breath until it happens in Florida.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

The BasketCase States of America will need more than to just send an emissary. They will need to go with the ability to broker a trade deal and a peace treaty. Now given that the Congress has decided that it can veto trade deals and peace treaties made by the potus you are actually going to need an entire delegation so that you are adequately represented to the members of Congress. Oh, and don't forget the slush fund to pay off the lobbyists, etc.

Just the initial cost of this mission is likely to bankrupt the fledgling BasketCase States of America. Do they have enough in the way of "foreign currency" to purchase the necessary dollars to even afford to say in the DC hotels?

Very true.

All negotiations start with the promise of trading one thing for another. What would the BCSA have to trade to the USA?

Excellent question. Right now the areas proposed by the OP are all net recipients of Federal tax dollars. They will be starting in a tax hole without those funds right from the outset. Going to be embarrassing for the BCSA to crawl back to the USA begging for a handout given that they just told it where to shove it's Constitution and government.

Which is why we're still supporting Texass and other red states that don't earn their own keep.

Foxfyre? Solutions?

Still relying on that silly meme.... Sad, just sad. How many military bases are there in Texas? THAT'S where all of that Federal money is going silly person. NOT WELFARE.

There are only 16 military bases in TX but 25 in CA. How come TX gets more federal aid dollars than CA? Montana gets a higher percentage of federal aid than TX but it only has 1 base.

Military Bases by State

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxf...al-Aid-as-a-Percentage-of-State-Revenue_0.png

Interesting.

Looks like all the tiny new countries should open military bases (and churches) immediately.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Might I suggest you choose a better tract of land first. You need access to the sea so that your "country" can't be strangled before it even gets a chance to begin.

Yes, indeed, starting landlocked is not exactly the brightest of tactical moves. Somewhere with a nice coastline is prolly good.

I recommend Vancouver.

Not Florida though cuz quite a lot of the shore line will soon be under water.

It will? When?

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

If you want to discuss climate change, we actually have an Environment Forum for that purpose.

Thanks.

Hey bucko, you brought it up not me. Stay on topic yourself.

Hey, behave, or I'll call a mo...

Oh, waidaminnut....

 

[Statistikhengst]

Not Florida though cuz quite a lot of the shore line will soon be under water.

It will? When?

Let's stay on topic, shall we?

If you want to discuss climate change, we actually have an Environment Forum for that purpose.

Thanks.

Hey bucko, you brought it up not me. Stay on topic yourself.

Nope. I was on topic.

I was talking about appropriate places for these tiny countries.

Water is a necessity but too much or too little and - well, we all know how that would go.

The US would be giving foreign aid and sending CARE packages.

How would that be any different than today other than the name of the location receiving it?

But it does raise an interesting question.

Does the world really need more 3rd world nations such as the BCSA?

Mebbe they can do fundraisers in places like Ramallah....

 

[Statistikhengst]

Determining our foreign policy should be fascinating.

When in doubt, shoot our way out, ask questions later, and then blame either the Jews, the gays or Santorum's "blahs".

Tried and true, tried and true.

 

[Statistikhengst]

There are only 16 military bases in TX but 25 in CA. How come TX gets more federal aid dollars than CA? Montana gets a higher percentage of federal aid than TX but it only has 1 base.

Military Bases by State

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxf...al-Aid-as-a-Percentage-of-State-Revenue_0.png

It seems to me that Montana is sucking very heavily on the gubbermint teat, well the USA gubbermint teat. So, what happens if Montana joins the Breadbasket Basketcase States of America? Wouldn't that be a financial loss for our fledgling, uh, Republic?

 

[HUGGY]

Y'all need to start off easy in this Declaration thing and the leaving.

I'm gonna suggest you take your little band of rebels and build up enough "warriors" to take over another country like say Mexico or an Island country in the Caribbean. A land like Mexico could be fun, great beaches, etc. It was proven that they aren't that hard to fight. Mucho Corrupto. There could be good excuses you could use like needing to stop the drug cartels which the indigenous residents would welcome. They have plenty of natural resources..OIL!!! Etc.. What they do not have as do the USA is a sophisticated military. Ya...Mexico. You would have to get rid of the Bandittos in the mountains but that again would be a plus with the locals. Then you hire on an honest Mexican as a figure head. SWEET! Once the drug lords and corrupt miltary and policia are put in prisons the residents will quickly come around. Voila! you got a pretty wealthy country if it is run intelligently. They already have a pretty good handle of how to pay people cheap for labor ..just increase the jobs and bingo bango..a happy workforce. AND!!! here is the good news... !!!! The nare do wells all go running to America so there will be no need to take care of them!!!! How good could it be ???!!!!

AND the sport fishing in Mexico is maybe the best on the planet!!! For Reals!!!

Ya Mexico...definitely!!!

Just a thought. I would be tickled to be the Mayor of Zihataneo/Ixtapa. Sign Me UP!!!!

Just sayin.

 

[Derideo_Te]

There are only 16 military bases in TX but 25 in CA. How come TX gets more federal aid dollars than CA? Montana gets a higher percentage of federal aid than TX but it only has 1 base.

Military Bases by State

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxf...al-Aid-as-a-Percentage-of-State-Revenue_0.png

It seems to me that Montana is sucking very heavily on the gubbermint teat, well the USA gubbermint teat. So, what happens if Montana joins the Breadbasket Basketcase States of America? Wouldn't that be a financial loss for our fledgling, uh, Republic?

Freedom isn't cheap!

 

[Statistikhengst]

There are only 16 military bases in TX but 25 in CA. How come TX gets more federal aid dollars than CA? Montana gets a higher percentage of federal aid than TX but it only has 1 base.

Military Bases by State

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxf...al-Aid-as-a-Percentage-of-State-Revenue_0.png

It seems to me that Montana is sucking very heavily on the gubbermint teat, well the USA gubbermint teat. So, what happens if Montana joins the Breadbasket Basketcase States of America? Wouldn't that be a financial loss for our fledgling, uh, Republic?

Freedom isn't cheap!

Well, since we freedom-loving, liberty-tree-pruning patriots of the BBBCSA want our fledgling Republic to work, the only real solution is to have no budget at all, and everyone is for himself. The fittest survive and then they will be allowed to sire more Breadbaskety offspring. We shall pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, which we shall all make on our own, without help from anyone else.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

For those considering where to have their own little country and if you're planning to produce your own food ...

There s a Place That s Nearly Perfect for Growing Food. It s Not California. Mother Jones

 

[Statistikhengst]

Y'all need to start off easy in this Declaration thing and the leaving.

I'm gonna suggest you take your little band of rebels and build up enough "warriors" to take over another country like say Mexico or an Island country in the Caribbean. A land like Mexico could be fun, great beaches, etc. It was proven that they aren't that hard to fight. Mucho Corrupto. There could be good excuses you could use like needing to stop the drug cartels which the indigenous residents would welcome. They have plenty of natural resources..OIL!!! Etc.. What they do not have as do the USA is a sophisticated military. Ya...Mexico. You would have to get rid of the Bandittos in the mountains but that again would be a plus with the locals. Then you hire on an honest Mexican as a figure head. SWEET! Once the drug lords and corrupt miltary and policia are put in prisons the residents will quickly come around. Voila! you got a pretty wealthy country if it is run intelligently. They already have a pretty good handle of how to pay people cheap for labor ..just increase the jobs and bingo bango..a happy workforce. AND!!! here is the good news... !!!! The nare do wells all go running to America so there will be no need to take care of them!!!! How good could it be ???!!!!

AND the sport fishing in Mexico is maybe the best on the planet!!! For Reals!!!

Ya Mexico...definitely!!!

Just a thought. I would be tickled to be the Mayor of Zihataneo/Ixtapa. Sign Me UP!!!!

Just sayin.

I like your entenpreneurial spirit.

Foxy, can we nominate Huggy to be our minister of shadow-wars?

 

[westwall]

The BasketCase States of America will need more than to just send an emissary. They will need to go with the ability to broker a trade deal and a peace treaty. Now given that the Congress has decided that it can veto trade deals and peace treaties made by the potus you are actually going to need an entire delegation so that you are adequately represented to the members of Congress. Oh, and don't forget the slush fund to pay off the lobbyists, etc.

Just the initial cost of this mission is likely to bankrupt the fledgling BasketCase States of America. Do they have enough in the way of "foreign currency" to purchase the necessary dollars to even afford to say in the DC hotels?

Very true.

All negotiations start with the promise of trading one thing for another. What would the BCSA have to trade to the USA?

Excellent question. Right now the areas proposed by the OP are all net recipients of Federal tax dollars. They will be starting in a tax hole without those funds right from the outset. Going to be embarrassing for the BCSA to crawl back to the USA begging for a handout given that they just told it where to shove it's Constitution and government.

Which is why we're still supporting Texass and other red states that don't earn their own keep.

Foxfyre? Solutions?

Still relying on that silly meme.... Sad, just sad. How many military bases are there in Texas? THAT'S where all of that Federal money is going silly person. NOT WELFARE.

There are only 16 military bases in TX but 25 in CA. How come TX gets more federal aid dollars than CA? Montana gets a higher percentage of federal aid than TX but it only has 1 base.

Military Bases by State

http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxf...al-Aid-as-a-Percentage-of-State-Revenue_0.png

Because they employ more people silly person. Many bases in California are tiny. Bases in Texas are huge and have a hell of a lot more soldiers based there. I thought you were smart and could add 2+2. What happened?