Im ready to curb gun murders. Lets work together

[Little-Acorn]

Strict gun laws, elimination of criminal gangs and cutting the routes that bring guns and drugs into the country. Better social security and health care. Less differences in incomes, better schools, less corrupted government and police.

Nothing will stop all murders, all violence.

But there are already laws on the books, that will cut them down quite a lot. If only they were followed. Not by the criminals, but by the courts and law enforcement officials.

The primary law that we haven't been obeying, is the 2nd amendment. Let all responsible adults carry if they want to.

Most such adults still won't bother, but a few will. And a criminal looking to do a mass shooting or robbery etc., will know that there are probably a few armed people in the crowd he's about to attack... and he won't know which ones they are. So he can expect a bullet from an unknown direction, before he can rack up his wished-for gruesome body count, or make his getaway or whatever.

And so, maybe he will decide he doesn't want to commit his crime after all.

So in many cases, lives will be saved, without a shot being fired.

That's a better result than any liberals have ever achieved by making laws restricting the guns of people who obey laws.

 

[Aries]

Strict gun laws, elimination of criminal gangs and cutting the routes that bring guns and drugs into the country. Better social security and health care. Less differences in incomes, better schools, less corrupted government and police.

All of which have already been tried.

And none of which have worked.

we've tried to lessen the gap in income?

 

[Rustic]

And we do have a 2nd Amendment. So, keep them, I say, but do background checks and register them.

That will help curb illegal guns, the experts say. The 2nd amendment can be honored by allowing hunting rifles for protecting livestock from critters and in a pinch to use for self protection. Or shooting at government soldiers, as some say this amendment was designed to protect. If our Founding Fathers were to study the problem today, they might have made their language on this a bit more clear.

The second admendment is absolutely clear, no registration whatsoever. Shall not be infringed. So take your political correctness and shove it up your fucking ass.

How is registering your weapons as your property an infringement on your right to keep or carry them?

Firearm ownership is an absolute right, you can't trust the federal government with your rights.

The federal government is not going to be put off by your stash of firearms, if they really are coming for you.

And I would be first in line to fight them if they wanted to disarm people completely.

But registration doesn't infringe on your ownership.

Military, police and fire are very pro-Second Amendment. dip shit

 

[Rustic]

Genocide can only happen when the victims are unarmed......

No one is advocating to keep guns away from fit citizens. But there have to be safety measures.

There are safety measures....people who are felons cannot buy, own or carry guns.....we have those laws....what we don't have are politicians who will create prison sentences long enough to keep them in jail....the democrats are fighting to keep repeat gun offender sentences low.......and we already have a process to adjudicate people dangerously mentally ill.....we just have to get that system to work...

Those are pretty much all we need to reduce gun crime...outside of dealing with single teenage mothers in democrat voting districts...

Single moms in Republican districts are ok?

Safety regulations and attacking poverty is how you lower gun violence rate .

No, criminal control… Shit for brains

 

[Brain357]

Genocide can only happen when the victims are unarmed......

No one is advocating to keep guns away from fit citizens. But there have to be safety measures.

There are safety measures....people who are felons cannot buy, own or carry guns.....we have those laws....what we don't have are politicians who will create prison sentences long enough to keep them in jail....the democrats are fighting to keep repeat gun offender sentences low.......and we already have a process to adjudicate people dangerously mentally ill.....we just have to get that system to work...

Those are pretty much all we need to reduce gun crime...outside of dealing with single teenage mothers in democrat voting districts...

Single moms in Republican districts are ok?

Safety regulations and attacking poverty is how you lower gun violence rate .

No.....locking up repeat violent criminals is how you lower the crime rate....then you attack poverty to stop the supply of new criminals....and to save lives.....

Probably, but we already have the fullest jails in the world. Better get on that poverty fast.

 

[2aguy]

You're foolish if you think street thugs vote.

No.....I have the links that show this happening in Chicago...

Gangs and Politicians in Chicago: An Unholy Alliance



Baskin—who was himself a candidate in the 16th Ward aldermanic race, which he would lose—was happy to oblige. In all, he says, he helped broker meetings between roughly 30 politicians (ten sitting aldermen and 20 candidates for City Council) and at least six gang representatives. That claim is backed up by two other community activists, Harold Davis Jr. and Kublai K. M. Toure, who worked with Baskin to arrange the meetings, and a third participant, also a community activist, who requested anonymity. The gang representatives were former chiefs who had walked away from day-to-day thug life, but they were still respected on the streets and wielded enough influence to mobilize active gang members.

The first meeting, according to Baskin, occurred in early November 2010, right before the statewide general election; more gatherings followed in the run-up to the February 2011 municipal elections. The venues included office buildings, restaurants, and law offices. (By all accounts, similar meetings took place across the city before last year’s elections and in elections past, including after hours at the Garfield Center, a taxpayer-financed facility on the West Side that is used by the city’s Department of Family and Support Services.)

At some of the meetings, the politicians arrived with campaign materials and occasionally with aides. The sessions were organized much like corporate-style job fairs. The gang representatives conducted hourlong interviews, one after the other, talking to as many as five candidates in a single evening. Like supplicants, the politicians came into the room alone and sat before the gang representatives, who sat behind a long table. “One candidate said, ‘I feel like I’m in the hot seat,’” recalls Baskin. “And they were.”

-----------



Our findings:

• While they typically deny it, many public officials—mostly, but not limited to, aldermen, state legislators, and elected judges—routinely seek political support from influential street gangs. Meetings like the ones Baskin organized, for instance, are hardly an anomaly. Gangs can provide a decisive advantage at election time by performing the kinds of chores patronage armies once did.
• In some cases, the partnerships extend beyond the elections in troubling—and possibly criminal—ways, greased by the steady and largely secret flow of money from gang leaders to certain politicians and vice versa. The gangs funnel their largess through opaque businesses, or front companies, and through under-the-table payments. In turn, grateful politicians use their payrolls or campaign funds to hire gang members, pull strings for them to get jobs or contracts, or offer other favors (see“Gangs and Politicians: Prisoner Shuffle”).
• Most alarming, both law enforcement and gang sources say, is that some politicians ignore the gangs’ criminal activities. Some go so far as to protect gangs from the police, tipping them off to impending raids or to surveillance activities—in effect, creating safe havens in their political districts. And often they chafe at backing tough measures to stem gang activities, advocating instead for superficial solutions that may garner good press but have little impact.

The paradox is that Chicago’s struggle to combat street gangs is being undermined by its own elected officials. And the alliances between lawmakers and lawbreakers raise a troubling question: Who actually rules the neighborhoods—our public servants or the gangs?and how they affect sentencing and prison sentences...

I knew something like that was coming.

" The gang representatives were former chiefs who had walked away from day-to-day thug life, but they were still respected on the streets and wielded enough influence to mobilize active gang members."

These are former gangbangers. They can say that they can mobilize active gang members, but I doubt strongly.

Might be nice for a politician to claim to have a "pet gang," in an attempt to have street cared in the district. Kind of like how Trump has the white supremacists.

My city has a movement of former gangbangers against gun violence as well. They hold rallies, speak to kids at our local community centers, hold signs up to bring awareness.. they have respect from the gangs and the community. It could potentially grow into a very beneficial alliance. We also have programs that encourage turning in handguns. Turn in a gun, get some cash in return, no questions asked. This program encourages police-community members working together, and gets a lot of guns on the streets that could have been used in countless more crimes.

No...those gun turn ins collect junk guns and crime guns ......they are a joke...

isn't "crime guns" what we want to collect?

Not after they are used, so they can be destroyed by the very police looking for the shooters....they are destroying evidence, not getting rid of their tools..

 

[2aguy]

[Q


My city has a movement of former gangbangers against gun violence as well. They hold rallies, speak to kids at our local community centers, hold signs up to bring awareness.. they have respect from the gangs and the community. It could potentially grow into a very beneficial alliance. We also have programs that encourage turning in handguns. Turn in a gun, get some cash in return, no questions asked. This program encourages police-community members working together, and gets a lot of guns on the streets that could have been used in countless more crimes.

What city would that be?

How is it working out?

Sometimes our local police do something silly like have a firearm cash back program. It is always a hoot. We use that to dump the shithbird firearms that don't work.

Gang members don't work with the police. They con the police.

Well, most criminals aren't necessarily "gang members"... A lot of criminals commit crimes with the motive of making money off of it, so the cash reward is beneficial. The idea of no questions asked, is an extremely effective way of getting people to bring guns in. I'd prefer not to tell you what city I am in, but it is in NY. I don't know yet statistically how effective the program has been.
Just tossing out ideas.
I have also known police in my area to let certain crimes go if the person can produce a firearm to hand in- not sure how legal that is, but it happens. For example they'll pull over a young man, search his car, and find an ounce of marijuana. They say we'll forget about this weed if you can provide us with a gun to take off the street. The young man makes a couple calls, and produces a gun. Gun off the street, pothead avoided criminal charges, win-win situation.

New York sucks. No wonder you are a pothead.

We firearms collectors just love these silly police buy back programs because it gives us a chance to get a little cash for worthless pieces of junk that has no market value. The police know it is a joke. It is not done for real value but has a publicity stunt for you Moon Bats.

you love them, the other citizens who make money love them, the cops who are padding their stats love them, and the lives are being saved by each gun being turned in love them..
so.... what's the issue?

No...lives are not being saved by those guns being turned in...they aren't turning in the guns they use for crime...they turn in what they don't need ....

 

[2aguy]

No one is advocating to keep guns away from fit citizens. But there have to be safety measures.

There are safety measures....people who are felons cannot buy, own or carry guns.....we have those laws....what we don't have are politicians who will create prison sentences long enough to keep them in jail....the democrats are fighting to keep repeat gun offender sentences low.......and we already have a process to adjudicate people dangerously mentally ill.....we just have to get that system to work...

Those are pretty much all we need to reduce gun crime...outside of dealing with single teenage mothers in democrat voting districts...

Single moms in Republican districts are ok?

Safety regulations and attacking poverty is how you lower gun violence rate .

No.....locking up repeat violent criminals is how you lower the crime rate....then you attack poverty to stop the supply of new criminals....and to save lives.....

Probably, but we already have the fullest jails in the world. Better get on that poverty fast.

Wrong...again. We have violent, repeat gun offenders who serve less than 3 years in prison for illegally owned guns...who then go out and commit murder.....

If they were in jail for 30 years for being a convicted felon in possession of an illegal gun, we would save lives.

 

[2aguy]

Strict gun laws, elimination of criminal gangs and cutting the routes that bring guns and drugs into the country. Better social security and health care. Less differences in incomes, better schools, less corrupted government and police.

All of which have already been tried.

And none of which have worked.

we've tried to lessen the gap in income?

We try and then the democrats keep raising taxes, spending money on waste and fraud, and then the poor stay poor...

 

[Rustic]

Firearms have never been the problem, people kill people not firearms…

 

[Aries]

Firearms have never been the problem, people kill people not firearms…

Right but people who are facing criminals who are not armed with a gun have a better chance of fighting off their attacker.. it's keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. That's the goal.

 

[2aguy]

Firearms have never been the problem, people kill people not firearms…

Right but people who are facing criminals who are not armed with a gun have a better chance of fighting off their attacker.. it's keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. That's the goal.

The only way to do that is to arrest and jail criminals caught with illegal guns...and put them in jail for such a long time, it discourages all but the worst criminals from using a gun....

You can rape, rob and murder with a knife...but if we want to discourage gun use.....lock them up for 30 years.

This is how Japan stopped the Yakuza from using guns and grenades.....

 

[Rustic]

Firearms have never been the problem, people kill people not firearms…

Right but people who are facing criminals who are not armed with a gun have a better chance of fighting off their attacker.. it's keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. That's the goal.

More frivolous gun laws only help violent criminals be more violent… Fact

 

[Flash]

[

we've tried to lessen the gap in income?

Obama sure as hell didn't do it. In fact eight years after the stupid Moon Bats elected him the income disparity is greater just like poverty has increased, family income decreased and the debt sky rocketed.

 

[Flash]

[Q

you love them, the other citizens who make money love them, the cops who are padding their stats love them, and the lives are being saved by each gun being turned in love them..
so.... what's the issue?

The guns that I have seen turned in for these little buyback PR stunts are worthless pieces of junk for the most part.

Do you know that the police usually pick out the few good firearms and then sell them at auction?

 

[Brain357]

There are safety measures....people who are felons cannot buy, own or carry guns.....we have those laws....what we don't have are politicians who will create prison sentences long enough to keep them in jail....the democrats are fighting to keep repeat gun offender sentences low.......and we already have a process to adjudicate people dangerously mentally ill.....we just have to get that system to work...

Those are pretty much all we need to reduce gun crime...outside of dealing with single teenage mothers in democrat voting districts...

Single moms in Republican districts are ok?

Safety regulations and attacking poverty is how you lower gun violence rate .

No.....locking up repeat violent criminals is how you lower the crime rate....then you attack poverty to stop the supply of new criminals....and to save lives.....

Probably, but we already have the fullest jails in the world. Better get on that poverty fast.

Wrong...again. We have violent, repeat gun offenders who serve less than 3 years in prison for illegally owned guns...who then go out and commit murder.....

If they were in jail for 30 years for being a convicted felon in possession of an illegal gun, we would save lives.

Wrong? I was agreeing with you, but think we need more work on poverty side.

 

[Aries]

[

we've tried to lessen the gap in income?

Obama sure as hell didn't do it. In fact eight years after the stupid Moon Bats elected him the income disparity is greater just like poverty has increased, family income decreased and the debt sky rocketed.

Fake news. Go check the numbers.

 

[Aries]

[Q

you love them, the other citizens who make money love them, the cops who are padding their stats love them, and the lives are being saved by each gun being turned in love them..
so.... what's the issue?

The guns that I have seen turned in for these little buyback PR stunts are worthless pieces of junk for the most part.

Do you know that the police usually pick out the few good firearms and then sell them at auction?

They sell them at auction to people who can legally purchase one? Good. Taking guns out of the hands of criminals and putting them in the hands of law biding citizen . You're really convincing me of the benefits.

 

[Correll]

Firearms have never been the problem, people kill people not firearms…

Right but people who are facing criminals who are not armed with a gun have a better chance of fighting off their attacker.. it's keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. That's the goal.

Not generally.

Criminals, being the bad guys, won't start trouble unless they have a clear advantage in size, numbers or weapons.

Thus, if it looks like they might lose, then nothing happens.


THe only way to give the victim a hidden advantage is to allow them to conceal a weapon.

 

[Disir]

Lets get to the bottom of the pandemic of suicides and gang violence with guns.
I am ready to solve this issue!
We obviously cant stop suicides. We could take their gun, but it will still happen. But we could take the gun, and they can use a knife and slit their throat. Or throw themselves in front of a bus. Maybe that's better? So there goes the number one cause of gun murder.
Gang violence. Most of them use illegal guns. So how do we curb that?
I don't want to hear no bullshit about background checks on private transactions or limited magazines or the same worn out clichés the gun grabbers use on a daily basis. Id like to work on ACTUAL solutions instead of reducing liberties for the majority of the country.
Lets work and ACTUALLY figure out a solution!
Whos with me?

Um.......this isn't wildly popular with the hug a thug crowd but how about good old fashion prison time?

Thanks,
the Liberal