Immigration is Destroying America.

[Unkotare]

It's been my experience (again, that personal difference) and observation that for every decent-paying job, there are a great many applicants competing, and that only the Crap-Jobs (and Crap-paying Jobs) are left lingering for any length of time.

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

 

[Mushroom]

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

And that is the real big issue here.

Most of your "good paying jobs" today require specialized skills. And just beyond speaking English and having a pulse. The days are gone where a person can work at a menial job and expect to have a roof over their heads.

And a lot of people simply refuse to lower themselves to start at the bottom of the ladder. They turn their noses up at "minimum wage" jobs, because welfare and other benefits pay them more then that. So what is the incentive to work?

In this country we are starting to develop a permanent "welfare class", of people who will never get jobs. Not because there are no jobs, but because they feel to "privileged" to take those jobs.

Then we have others who are demanding almost insane wages for what is essentially low end work. I actually know people who commute 60 miles from the North Bay to San Francisco and work at fast food jobs. Because the minimum wage is higher there, more then enough to pay for their commuting costs.

 

[Indeependent]

It's been my experience (again, that personal difference) and observation that for every decent-paying job, there are a great many applicants competing, and that only the Crap-Jobs (and Crap-paying Jobs) are left lingering for any length of time.

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

I had a neighbor who is in his upper 30's and was training to be a welder.
He was a plumber and in pretty good shape but he said the welding was for a 20 year old and couldn't complete the training.

A lot of people being laid off are in their 40s and above and no one wants to hire older workers, regardless of credentials.

 

[Unkotare]

It's been my experience (again, that personal difference) and observation that for every decent-paying job, there are a great many applicants competing, and that only the Crap-Jobs (and Crap-paying Jobs) are left lingering for any length of time.

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

I had a neighbor who is in his upper 30's and was training to be a welder.
He was a plumber and in pretty good shape but he said the welding was for a 20 year old and couldn't complete the training.

A lot of people being laid off are in their 40s and above and no one wants to hire older workers, regardless of credentials.

And how exactly does this relate to the topic?

 

[Indeependent]

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

I had a neighbor who is in his upper 30's and was training to be a welder.
He was a plumber and in pretty good shape but he said the welding was for a 20 year old and couldn't complete the training.

A lot of people being laid off are in their 40s and above and no one wants to hire older workers, regardless of credentials.

And how exactly does this relate to the topic?

No less than your insistence than the are jobs where people don't have the skill-set.
Good jobs galore does not necessarily translate into good opportunities for all, even if one is willing to train.

 

[protectionist]

News flash: With an increase in population (yeah that includes immigrants) there is an increase in demand for products and services (yeah that means jobs.)

The only thing that effs that up is "giving away products and services via welfare." Why work if someone's willing to hand shit over for free?

The amount of work to be done is not bound by any artificial ceiling as you flat earthers tend to believe.

1. I taught 2 subjects in college >> Geography & Economics. I'm more than happy to talk economics, but pure economics as you are getting into, is off topic in this thread.

2. Your "increase in demand for products and services" forgets one thing. That immigrants notoriously, on a large scale don't spend in American stores. They wire most of their money back to their home country (ex. $25 Billion/year to Mexico alone, in remittances$$$) See Post # 487.

YAWN,what you forgot to mention IS..that Americans don't buy American Manufactured Goods......BUT CHEAP CHINESE IMPORTS...so your point IS??????????STUPID

The question isn't what is my point. I made my point. Crystal clear.

The question is, what the hell is your entire post (# 548), and what the hell does it have to do with my point about remittances ? Answer: nothing. So why come in here and change the subject to something about imports. Imports or no imports, immigrants wire their $$ out of the US, depriving US stores of the sales they would have gotten, if the jobs they hold were held by Americans.

Either talk about what we're talking about, or stay out of the thread, OK ? The topic is immigration. Nobody is interested in some macroeconomic derail.

 

[protectionist]

It should be born in mind, as I have mentioned, that immigrants are more likely to be entrepreneurs than native-born Americans and are some of the most dynamic drivers of innovation in our country. Truly, one of our greatest strengths.

I have agreed many times that one of the few exceptions for allowing foreigners to immigrate into the US, is the case of those immigrants who bring large amounts of capital with which to open businesses and create jobs FOR AMERICANS, at good pay.

I don't know if your claim that "immigrants are more likely to be entrepreneurs than native-born Americans" has a grain of truth to it or not, nor do I care. I simply say that if the immigrant fits the description I just detailed, he is welcome here, in my book.

 

[protectionist]

NO, I didn't "claim hundreds". YOU said that, I didn't say that. Some people need to be told 2 or 3 times, before they get it in their thick skulls.

Oh really no, I said that and you did not?

You have not learned much from me yet, have you? Well, one thing you should have learned by now is that I can back up what I say. And apparently you can not. So here we go, some of "protectionist's greatest hits", ok?

I don't know where you got this 53 number from, but nobody knows how many people Mary Mallon infected. It could easily be, and probably is, in the hundreds.

Why would I need one ? I said >> "It could easily be, and probably is, in the hundreds." So I'm just estimating.

So really, *I* claimed it was in the hundreds? No, that was you. You are just another bigoted weasel in my opinion, so to be honest what you say has about as much interest to me as what Fred Phelps said, or William Pierce.

Maybe you need to go back to vocabulary school, the 4th grade, or something. When somebody says "probably", that makes their claim is an INdefinite one, unlike the definite one that you appear to be trying your best to ascribe to me.

Bear in mind. Most readers of these threads have good vocabulary skills. They know what the word probably means, and they know that whoever uses it cannot be held responsible for making a definitive claim from it.

Here are YOUR WORDS >> "You claim "hundreds". No, I said probably there were hundreds, and I say it again NOW, and for the second time, I'll say I wouldn't doubt if there were thousands, because your silly little 53 number only relates to known, documented cases, which could be a small fraction of the total, and completely ignores all the UNKNOWN cases that had decades upon which to have them accumulate. You can go back to sleep now. I'm not impressed with anything you've had to say, and I doubt if anyone else is either.

 

[protectionist]

It should be born in mind, as I have mentioned, that immigrants are more likely to be entrepreneurs than native-born Americans and are some of the most dynamic drivers of innovation in our country. Truly, one of our greatest strengths.

Have you ever noticed how so many of these bigots all claim great things for themselves, yet seem to have so much hatred built up inside? I bet they have miserable lives, and have accomplished almost nothing in them. So they blame all of their problems on others.

Oh, I would have been rich/happy/a star/famous, if not for the Jews/Mexicans/gays/Muslims/Catholics, etc, etc, etc.

I am always amazed at the feeblemindedness of such individuals, and it actually makes me sad to be an American when I see people like that.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence from you about anybody in this thread being a "bigot" (as you so casually throw the word around), and each time I've asked you to SHOW evidence you've cut and ran from the challenge. Again. if you have some evidence of anyone being a bigot, let's hear it.

 

[protectionist]

It should be born in mind, as I have mentioned, that immigrants are more likely to be entrepreneurs than native-born Americans and are some of the most dynamic drivers of innovation in our country. Truly, one of our greatest strengths.

Have you ever noticed how so many of these bigots all claim great things for themselves, yet seem to have so much hatred built up inside? I bet they have miserable lives, and have accomplished almost nothing in them. So they blame all of their problems on others.

Oh, I would have been rich/happy/a star/famous, if not for the Jews/Mexicans/gays/Muslims/Catholics, etc, etc, etc.

Oh, that 'Projectionist' lunatic has repeatedly said almost exactly that. It seems he dropped out of college/flunked out/whatever and blamed "anti-white discrimination" or some such nonsense. He has claimed over and over that the terrible burden of being a white male in America has ruined what otherwise would surely have been a glorious, successful life.

He's fucking nuts, if you haven't noticed by now. Take anything he says with a grain of salt the size of Mt. Rushmore.

Unaware, has not responded to my questions about his background, which if true, would establish him as disqualified from this thread, on the basis of personal bias. His description of "anti-white discrimination" (affirmative action) as "nonsense", clearly adds to his lack of credibility. Furthermore, his use of the F-bomb combined with his typical hollow insults, show on what level he pollutes this thread. Kind of like people living in a housing complex, having to tolerate dog poops all over the grounds.

 

[Unkotare]

I had a neighbor who is in his upper 30's and was training to be a welder.
He was a plumber and in pretty good shape but he said the welding was for a 20 year old and couldn't complete the training.

A lot of people being laid off are in their 40s and above and no one wants to hire older workers, regardless of credentials.

And how exactly does this relate to the topic?

No less than your insistence than the are jobs where people don't have the skill-set...

My point relates directly to H1-B visas, which are certainly related to the topic.

 

[Unkotare]

Immigrants Are More Likely to Be Entrepreneurs - Businessweek

 

[protectionist]

I equate employers who take advantage of this flood, and who hire Illegals on such a scale, with the bullshit artists in Big Business who close-down entire US manufacturing and assembly plants and ship them overseas, to exploit thousands of poor worker-bees using proxy 'plantation' overseers.

Absolutely right. And "EQUATE" is just the right word for it.

These are equally both outsourcing to cheap labor foreigners. In the case of international outsourcing, like you said, bullshit artists in Big Business who close-down entire US manufacturing and assembly plants and ship them overseas. In the case of DOMESTIC outsourcing (AKA "immigration" or work visas), these are those jobs in the labor force, that CAN ONLY BE DONE INSIDE THE USA (ex. janitorial, construction, motels, landscaping, trucking, etc), so the cheap labor foreigners are brought here, instead of the jobs going to them.

Both are outsourcing. Principle is the same.

 

[protectionist]

Immigration has nothing to do with unemployment. The reason we have unemployment is the dumb ass democrats who insist on paying people to be disabled, paying people to be unemployed, paying people to have children, paying people to go to school, paying people to sit on their fat asses and smoke pot all day.

Oh, I dunno... as usual, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, although it strikes me that unemployment is less about immigration than it is about Big Business shipping millions of jobs to foreign labor pools where businesses can exploit cheap slave-wages labor without worrying about our own hard-fought labor-protection laws.

There is no escaping the impression that Illegal Aliens have saturated the labor-markets of several trades and industries and that they have depressed the wage-levels in those trades so that no American wants to work for the 'peanuts' that some of these employers can now get away with paying - exploiting Illegals at the expense of opportunities for American workers, while pocketing a higher profit margin for themselves.

My own observations are limited to the metropolitan Chicago area - the six-county region of northern Illinois that is my own stomping ground - but up here, Mexican and other Latin-American Illegal Aliens have pretty-much soured the Construction trade, including its 'offshoots' and 'kindred' such as Carpentry, Roofing and Metal-Working.

Illegals have also put huge and damaging dents into the Electrician and Plumbing trades, with flocks of bargain-basement 'helpers' (Illegals) - not bona fide 'apprentices', but simple 'helpers' - working for peanuts under the direction off a Master Plumber or Master Electrician; doing jobs formerly held by American 'apprentices' at a higher pay-scale.

Something similar can be said for the Landscaping trade and others which the Illegals have long-since overwhelmed (restaurant, cleaning services, house-painting, etc.) and which are probably in the same shape across the nation as they are in the metro Chicago area.

There's nothing wrong with conceding lower-paid jobs to mostly New Folk (legal immigrants), but there is a great deal wrong with allowing tidal waves of Illegals to saturate entire trades and professions and to undermine living-wage levels of formerly-respectable lines of work, so that no self-respecting American is willing to take such a job, working for table-scraps.

Rightly or wrongly, personally, I equate employers who take advantage of this flood, and who hire Illegals on such a scale, with the bullshit artists in Big Business who close-down entire US manufacturing and assembly plants and ship them overseas, to exploit thousands of poor worker-bees using proxy 'plantation' overseers.

Immigration (ILLEGAL immigration) is NOT the sole cause of unemployment, of course, but, rightly or wrongly, I perceive it to be large and significant contributing factor; enough to make a Top 10 List of Factors Responsible for High Unemployment.

In my experience those illegals are here to work for a good wage. In my experience in cities where the democrats pay the citizens to sit on their ass and get fat, the fat asses don't want to get on roofs in the heat or work in attics, or lay sheet rock, or paint, or...

Further if you look around there are millions of jobs available. So why the unemployment?

Where are those millions of jobs, and what kind are they ?

 

[protectionist]

In my experience those illegals are here to work for a good wage...

You and I have had different experiences and opportunities to observe and conclude, apparently. ;-)


Same response... ;-)

...Further if you look around there are millions of jobs available. So why the unemployment?

It's been my experience (again, that personal difference) and observation that for every decent-paying job, there are a great many applicants competing, and that only the Crap-Jobs (and Crap-paying Jobs) are left lingering for any length of time.

But, as I've said, we've seen different things and reached different conclusions.

Apparently.

In my family (Florida, Georgia, and Texas) the only relatives I've ever had that were out of work in good paying jobs were the ones getting paid unemployment and welfare money to sit home. As soon as the welfare ran out they went back to good paying jobs.

In my immediate family (me, wife, kids, parents, brother and sister, not a single person has ever spent more than a day out of work their entire life.

And if you did find yourself (through no fault of yours) out of work, and all of America not throwing itself at you to hire you somewhere, would you accept that unemployment insurance payment, to pay your bills ? Just wondering.

 

[protectionist]

It's been my experience (again, that personal difference) and observation that for every decent-paying job, there are a great many applicants competing, and that only the Crap-Jobs (and Crap-paying Jobs) are left lingering for any length of time.

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

I don't necessarily doubt this to be true, but even still, I can't help but ask for >>

 

[Unkotare]

The government has shirked its responsibility regarding illegal immigration too long and too deliberately. But LEGAL immigration? Therein lies a huge part of our power and our potential as a nation. The best and the brightest from around the world come here for a number of reasons (some of which are imperiled by the current administration and those complicit with it). They come to learn, to research, to create, to innovate, to start businesses or expand existing ones, to love, to live, to contribute their wits and often their very lives to making America grow stronger. If every American appreciated this great country the way most naturalized citizens do we'd be a whole lot better off all around. Very few people who come here legally do so for nefarious purposes. Most who come illegally don't either, though that doesn't excuse the act or eliminate the accompanying problems.

Seeing some addle-brained fool deny the reality that the US is NOT "overpopulated" is one thing, watching some chronic headcase flip out in a scatter-shot fit of racist rage is another, but questioning the facility of the Irish with the English language is taking it too far. My ancestors turned back the schemes and aggression of the British for centuries and in the process took their hodgepodge of borrowed tongues and made something beautiful and poetic from it. One of the greatest acts of revenge in history. Coming to the new world, the Irish withstood generations of hatred and violence, added their particular genius to America's melting pot, and earned their place in a greater country than had ever been before or since. It is a process that continues to this day with other peoples from other places, always making us better and stronger. If we had to weed out as few bad apples from the home-grown harvest as from our newest LEGAL arrivals we would have very little to complain about indeed (of course we'd find something to complain about anyway - it's what we do).

Some people don't read very well...

 

[protectionist]

It's been my experience (again, that personal difference) and observation that for every decent-paying job, there are a great many applicants competing, and that only the Crap-Jobs (and Crap-paying Jobs) are left lingering for any length of time.

There are, and have been for quite some time now, a great many jobs requiring specialized skills that have gone unfilled for lack of qualified candidates.

I had a neighbor who is in his upper 30's and was training to be a welder.
He was a plumber and in pretty good shape but he said the welding was for a 20 year old and couldn't complete the training.

A lot of people being laid off are in their 40s and above and no one wants to hire older workers, regardless of credentials.

Without a doubt, discrimination against older people is widespread, and seniors may even be the # 2 discriminated against group. Second only to American citizens.

 

[protectionist]

Immigrants Are More Likely to Be Entrepreneurs - Businessweek

Just as it was in New York in the 1950s, many immigrants opened businesses. There then, these were Jews who fled Nazi Germany. They were also the ones who had enough money to come here. As such, they, as a group, were wealthier than most Americans, and better able to AFFORD a business start-up.

And I've seen nobody in this thread who is opposed to wealthy immigrants arriving here, opening up businesses, and creating jobs (FOR AMERICANS).

 

[protectionist]

And how exactly does this relate to the topic?

No less than your insistence than the are jobs where people don't have the skill-set...

My point relates directly to H1-B visas, which are certainly related to the topic.

What is this point relating to H1-B visas ?