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Later dude, I gave engaging with you an honest shot but Ive had enough of your bullshit. I don't need your kind of garbage polluting my life. Your the second person I've put on ignore so you've got to be one special kind of douchebag. I'm hoping you learn to grow up and act with a little integrity sometime in the future cause what you got going on now is simple obnoxious. Peacestop being anti amercian then. what is it you don't get? you should pull your head out of your ass and fight for the same thing our fore fathers fought for. and that ain't open borders. stop backing the illegals then. admit they know they are here illegally and they knowingly shit on the hand outs they got marching in the street and flipping off america. stop carrying the mexican flag. you said they think america is their home right? they know know other right? why the fk do I see mehico flags in my country's streets then? you're a loser, put me on ignore, you have no skill set to debate. you stand on your ideology when it is wrong.I'm about done with you man, I've put up with a lot of your idiotic bullshit arguments. You are a shining example of hypocrisy as you criticize snowflakes but act more emotional than everybody else on this board. You diss the left for using the race card on the right yet you use the same over blown rhetoric because you are too stupid to win an argument based on facts and intellect. One more childish "umamerican" or "ANTIFA lover" insult and you're on ignore and I rid myself of one more low IQ shit talkeryou hate US citizens. and an illegal brings zip into this country other than hurt to others who are citizens. look anti america queenie, you can banter with me all day everyday, and it ain't gonna change that you hate the US and its citizens. so perhaps you should go live in mehico since you love them so much. But leave my country traitor.I love Americans... I also love what foreigner bring to our country... People from every country have amazing things to offer. I don't respect people who commit crimes and believe that there should be consequences, but we aren't talking about those people in this case now are we.I know you don't. so you have no idea what it is to be a patriot. none at all.sorry, but your hate of US citizens is now well noted.I don't see the difference between two children that grew up here. A piece of paper is the only thing separating the two, other than that this country is home to both children. This isn't a huge number of people, why are you so scared of them? You can hate law breakers all you want but these kids didn't break laws, their parents did. So what does it come down to? Do you just not like Mexicans or Immigrants. Why are you so scared to compete against them?
You're cheap little anti-american rants aren't landing. Try a different angle, you are sounding desperate. Try honest debate for a change
That's where we disagree. I think it's fine making decisions based on how we feel. Morals, emotion, sense of right and wrong all play a part in our most important decisions. Why did Trump drop 50 tomahawk missles on Syria? Because Assad dropped Chem weapons on his people. Those were his people. It puts so why did we drop bombs? You don't think emotion and standing up for basic human rights played a roll in that decision?Uh-huh, that's why we have mass protests and Congress Critters stepping all over each other to get spotlight on this "issue".Your entire analysis is political spin. You think he turned them into pawns, that's not trueUh-huh because the President never made a convincing reason & evidence based case that it was the right thing to do from a social, economic and security standpoint, it's the President's job to do this and failing that the appropriate thing to do would have been to rescind his EO, however President Nimrod choose to leave it intact, which leads one to believe that his intention was to create a wedge issue to serve as a thorn in the side of his political opponents, which is what he's managed to accomplish.The dream act was tried through congress many times. Our useless congress kept loading it up with other immigration agenda items and it never passed.In other words President Nimrod, the guy that was supposed to be the leader failed to persuade Congress and it's constituents that it was the right thing to do, yet instead of him following proper constitutional order and rescinding his executive order for prosecutorial discretion in the deportation of "the dreamers" since he lacked the Constitutional Authority to in effect unilaterally alter federal legislation, he behaved as a small child would and stubbornly ignored the representatives of the majority will of the people, because as usual with the Nimrod his opinion was the only one that counted (a trait shared by many would be autocrats).President Nimrod, as you call him, tried many times to get a stagnant congress to act. They failed to do anything with immigration reform for the better part of two decades.
Thus we are here, where President Twitter has to clean up a mess made by President Nimrod, because President Nimrod lacked both effective leadership skills and humility.
Apparently you don't understand the difference between acting based on emotion and acting based on generally accepted morality.DACA was an overreach but it was what he did to provide temporary relief to a group of nearly 1 million children and teenagers who were living in the shadows. Sure you can blame it on "feelings". How many laws that involve human rights were motivated by feelings? All of them? The emancipation proclamation to free slaves, the EO's to desegregate schools and the military etc. Of course feelings are involved...
Maybe these examples will help:
The Nuremberg Laws = enacted due to a purely emotional response (fear & anger mostly)
Amendment XIII to the U.S. Constitution = enacted due to the generally accepted belief that slavery was immoral (props to President Lincoln and all the abolitionist cohorts that PERSUADED the majority will of the people that this was true).
See the difference?
LOL, what a laudable goal... let "the dreamers" stay for a few years, give 'em hope and then have that hope smashed on the rocks when someone finally got around to mounting a legal challenge to his unconstitutional usurpation of legislative authority. Like I said before, those taking up the cause of "the dreamers" should be angry with President Nimrod for not following through using proper Constitutional order, he had more than enough time to do so.and we have a process to repeal laws or EO's that we feel are unconstitutional which is what happened with DACA and DAPA. Obama's goal was to provide some temporary relief and opportunity until the congress pulled their heads out of their asses and figured out how to legislate. I'd say he was pretty successful in accomplishing his goal.
Don't forget the Nimrod had control of both Houses of Congress for 2 years after his election and if this had REALLY been an issue that needed resolving he had both the time and opportunity to accomplish it via normal order, this only became an issue he "cared about" AFTER the Republicans took control of the House and thus it gave him the opportunity to make it a political one.
You still don't seem to understand the difference between acting based on emotion and acting based on reason, the legislative process that we have as messy and inefficient as it may be is the only way to achieve a triumph of reason over emotion, since debate and deliberation (i.e. weighing immediate and opportunity costs as well as social impact prior to making any decisions) is required to accomplish that objective. "Giving these kids the opportunity to work and seek an education" is not a justification for the Executive to usurp legislative authority, it's an appeal to sympathy by a would be autocrat, the case must be made based on economic and social criteria that both justifies the costs and mitigates any potential negative societal effects and then Constitutional order must be observed else the rule of law is undermined.Nothing was being done so Obama took action and successfully gave these kids opportunity to work and seek an education. It appears now that Trump is going to lead an effort to solidify a law to protect them. I don't like the chaotic way it's being done by Trump but if it gets the right results Through his leadership then I will give him credit. Like it or not what Obama did was effective.
All that Obama accomplished was to turn "the dreamers" into political pawns while at the same time further dividing the citizenry and distracting the political machinery in Washington from FAR more urgent matters.
The "dreamers" are perfect political pawns because the masses of sheeple react exactly like you are, all emotion NO REASON.
More appeals to EMOTION.... where's the reason and evidence based analysis? What are the economic impacts and opportunity costs of DACA? what are the negative societal consequences? what are the benefits? if the benefits outweigh the costs why not make a reason and evidence based case and follow proper Constitutional order?, these kids were undocumented, living Off the grid in fear of deportation. He gave them an opportunity to join society, and pursue work and an education.
There is no *may* about it, he overstepped his authority and "the right thing on a human level" is nothing but a bunch of meaningless word salad, when it comes to National Public Policy the "right thing" can only be determined by reasoned analysis of costs and benefits not by sympathy and sobbing.He may have cross the line with his legal authority but he did what many feel was the right thing on a human level.
It isn't about "tough" it's about making decisions based on reason and evidence versus making decisions based on how you "feel" , the former most often leads to positive outcomes the latter to disasters.Go ahead an attack "emotional" actions if it makes you feel tough and superior but what he did made a difference and it was better than the alternative of doing nothing.
Fuck amnestyPriority is first kick this little Pendejo out.
Sad thing is, amnesty is coming.
With all of the different aspects regarding DACA and the fate of the dreamers, what should the priority be:
So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
Drumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
Drumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
I don't trust him any more than I trust your side, in this matter, but he did set the stage to make your side whine and howl and piss themselves with fright and rage.
That, by itself, is worth a good belly-laugh or two.
A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!
A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!
To be fair, when Democrats controlled the House, Senate and Presidency, they did NOTHING for the Dreamers or any other immigrant group.
Ok buddyDrumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
I don't trust him any more than I trust your side, in this matter, but he did set the stage to make your side whine and howl and piss themselves with fright and rage.
That, by itself, is worth a good belly-laugh or two.
Way to take the conversation down to the gutter. Says a lot about how strong a point you have
That arguement is so lame. As tragic as any death is, how many Americans are killed by legal immigrants? Should we stop legal immigration? How many are killed by tourists? Should we stop travel? How many Californians are killed by people from other states? Should we build a wall around California and not let others in?Drumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
I don't trust him any more than I trust your side, in this matter, but he did set the stage to make your side whine and howl and piss themselves with fright and rage.
That, by itself, is worth a good belly-laugh or two.
View attachment 148290
With all of the different aspects regarding DACA and the fate of the dreamers, what should the priority be:
I agree. But through the rule of law and historical precedent the president does have certain powers and control over our immigration process. Reagan issued an executive order granting legal status and citizenship opportunity to children of illegals that were legalized under his previous amnesty act. they are not the exact same situations but they are similarWith all of the different aspects regarding DACA and the fate of the dreamers, what should the priority be:
Enforcing the rule of law. Regardless of what happens next, it has to follow the creation of laws in this country. We get to hash out wether we want to grant amnesty by who we appoint to make the laws......then the process has to be followed...otherwise....we head down that path to corruption and destruction.
That was nowhere near the gutter, chum... just rubbing some well-deserved (on the part of your side) salt in the wounds... and having fun doing it.Ok buddyDrumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
I don't trust him any more than I trust your side, in this matter, but he did set the stage to make your side whine and howl and piss themselves with fright and rage.
That, by itself, is worth a good belly-laugh or two.
Which is profoundly and inextricably interwoven with the problem of Illegal Aliens... give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile... so... no inch... no DACA....We are talking about DACA here....
Which is profoundly and inextricably interwoven with the problem of Illegal Aliens... give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile... so... no inch... no DACA....We are talking about DACA here....
Sets a terrible precedent against American interests and sends the wrong signal to prospective future waves of invaders.
The correct signal is: "Your unlawful entry into our country will not be rewarded with your children being allowed to stay."
A long-overdue and harsh lesson, as one tactic in a bag of tactics used to repel the invasion of 11-12,000,000, and to discourage future invasions.
Who knows? Perhaps a Republican-controlled Congress, or Herr Build-A-Wall, will let them stay, eh?
Good for you. Come back once you've grown up a bit, you're acting like a childThat was nowhere near the gutter, chum... just rubbing some well-deserved (on the part of your side) salt in the wounds... and having fun doing it.Ok buddyDrumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.So how do you feel about Trumps recent comments about living the dreamers and wanting congress to pass DACA into law? How does that fit into your calculation?Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.It is possible to walk and chew gum...
Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval....Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...
That is your interpretation....which is the moral and right thing to do...
It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.
Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed....while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...
The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation....This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.
Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.
You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...
Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.
You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.
Payback's a bitch.
Enjoy.
I don't trust him any more than I trust your side, in this matter, but he did set the stage to make your side whine and howl and piss themselves with fright and rage.
That, by itself, is worth a good belly-laugh or two.
Don't get your hopes upWhich is profoundly and inextricably interwoven with the problem of Illegal Aliens... give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile... so... no inch... no DACA....We are talking about DACA here....
Sets a terrible precedent against American interests and sends the wrong signal to prospective future waves of invaders.
The correct signal is: "Your unlawful entry into our country will not be rewarded with your children being allowed to stay."
A long-overdue and harsh lesson, as one tactic in a bag full of tactics, used to repel the present invasion of 11-12,000,000, and to discourage future invasions.
Who knows? Perhaps a Republican-controlled Congress, or Herr Build-A-Wall, will let them stay, eh?
