In Regards To DACA, what Should Be The Priority?

[jc456]

Immigration isn't addressed in the Constitution and so I guess it all depends if one believes whether the Constitution is a "living document"?

If it is I would select as my answer (A) the Constitution.
If it isn't I would say (C) none of the above, our immigration laws are un-constitutional and it is up to the states.

I'm leaning towards (A) and hope Congress acts to prevent Trump from having to pull an Obama.

immigration is addressed in our laws. we have laws and those laws are constantly shit on by libturds.

 

[jc456]

President Nimrod, as you call him, tried many times to get a stagnant congress to act. They failed to do anything with immigration reform for the better part of two decades.

In other words President Nimrod, the guy that was supposed to be the leader failed to persuade Congress and it's constituents that it was the right thing to do, yet instead of him following proper constitutional order and rescinding his executive order for prosecutorial discretion in the deportation of "the dreamers" since he lacked the Constitutional Authority to in effect unilaterally alter federal legislation, he behaved as a small child would and stubbornly ignored the representatives of the majority will of the people, because as usual with the Nimrod his opinion was the only one that counted (a trait shared by many would be autocrats).

Thus we are here, where President Twitter has to clean up a mess made by President Nimrod, because President Nimrod lacked both effective leadership skills and humility.

DACA was an overreach but it was what he did to provide temporary relief to a group of nearly 1 million children and teenagers who were living in the shadows. Sure you can blame it on "feelings". How many laws that involve human rights were motivated by feelings? All of them? The emancipation proclamation to free slaves, the EO's to desegregate schools and the military etc. Of course feelings are involved...

Apparently you don't understand the difference between acting based on emotion and acting based on generally accepted morality.

Maybe these examples will help:
The Nuremberg Laws = enacted due to a purely emotional response (fear & anger mostly)
Amendment XIII to the U.S. Constitution = enacted due to the generally accepted belief that slavery was immoral (props to President Lincoln and all the abolitionist cohorts that PERSUADED the majority will of the people that this was true).

See the difference?

and we have a process to repeal laws or EO's that we feel are unconstitutional which is what happened with DACA and DAPA. Obama's goal was to provide some temporary relief and opportunity until the congress pulled their heads out of their asses and figured out how to legislate. I'd say he was pretty successful in accomplishing his goal.

LOL, what a laudable goal... let "the dreamers" stay for a few years, give 'em hope and then have that hope smashed on the rocks when someone finally got around to mounting a legal challenge to his unconstitutional usurpation of legislative authority. Like I said before, those taking up the cause of "the dreamers" should be angry with President Nimrod for not following through using proper Constitutional order, he had more than enough time to do so.

The dream act was tried through congress many times. Our useless congress kept loading it up with other immigration agenda items and it never passed.

Uh-huh because the President never made a convincing reason & evidence based case that it was the right thing to do from a social, economic and security standpoint, it's the President's job to do this and failing that the appropriate thing to do would have been to rescind his EO, however President Nimrod choose to leave it intact, which leads one to believe that his intention was to create a wedge issue to serve as a thorn in the side of his political opponents, which is what he's managed to accomplish.

Don't forget the Nimrod had control of both Houses of Congress for 2 years after his election and if this had REALLY been an issue that needed resolving he had both the time and opportunity to accomplish it via normal order, this only became an issue he "cared about" AFTER the Republicans took control of the House and thus it gave him the opportunity to make it a political one.

Nothing was being done so Obama took action and successfully gave these kids opportunity to work and seek an education. It appears now that Trump is going to lead an effort to solidify a law to protect them. I don't like the chaotic way it's being done by Trump but if it gets the right results Through his leadership then I will give him credit. Like it or not what Obama did was effective.

You still don't seem to understand the difference between acting based on emotion and acting based on reason, the legislative process that we have as messy and inefficient as it may be is the only way to achieve a triumph of reason over emotion, since debate and deliberation (i.e. weighing immediate and opportunity costs as well as social impact prior to making any decisions) is required to accomplish that objective. "Giving these kids the opportunity to work and seek an education" is not a justification for the Executive to usurp legislative authority, it's an appeal to sympathy by a would be autocrat, the case must be made based on economic and social criteria that both justifies the costs and mitigates any potential negative societal effects and then Constitutional order must be observed else the rule of law is undermined.

All that Obama accomplished was to turn "the dreamers" into political pawns while at the same time further dividing the citizenry and distracting the political machinery in Washington from FAR more urgent matters.

Your entire analysis is political spin. You think he turned them into pawns, that's not true

Uh-huh, that's why we have mass protests and Congress Critters stepping all over each other to get spotlight on this "issue".

The "dreamers" are perfect political pawns because the masses of sheeple react exactly like you are, all emotion NO REASON.

, these kids were undocumented, living Off the grid in fear of deportation. He gave them an opportunity to join society, and pursue work and an education.

More appeals to EMOTION.... where's the reason and evidence based analysis? What are the economic impacts and opportunity costs of DACA? what are the negative societal consequences? what are the benefits? if the benefits outweigh the costs why not make a reason and evidence based case and follow proper Constitutional order?

He may have cross the line with his legal authority but he did what many feel was the right thing on a human level.

There is no *may* about it, he overstepped his authority and "the right thing on a human level" is nothing but a bunch of meaningless word salad, when it comes to National Public Policy the "right thing" can only be determined by reasoned analysis of costs and benefits not by sympathy and sobbing.

Go ahead an attack "emotional" actions if it makes you feel tough and superior but what he did made a difference and it was better than the alternative of doing nothing.

It isn't about "tough" it's about making decisions based on reason and evidence versus making decisions based on how you "feel" , the former most often leads to positive outcomes the latter to disasters.

 

[Fiero425]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

 

[my2¢]

Immigration isn't addressed in the Constitution and so I guess it all depends if one believes whether the Constitution is a "living document"?

If it is I would select as my answer (A) the Constitution.
If it isn't I would say (C) none of the above, our immigration laws are un-constitutional and it is up to the states.

I'm leaning towards (A) and hope Congress acts to prevent Trump from having to pull an Obama.

immigration is addressed in our laws. we have laws and those laws are constantly shit on by libturds.

Yes, but based on one's ideology it can be said these laws themselves crap on the Constitution.

Neither original nor amended Constitution gives the federal government any jurisdiction over immigration (only citizenship). Thus the issue falls to each state unless one believes in the Constitution as a living document to be left to the determination of the courts.

 

[Slyhunter]

It is possible to walk and chew gum... Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers, which is the moral and right thing to do, while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality. This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.

Why is that the moral and right thing to do? They are here illegally. Let them go back to Mexico with their parents and then apply for a visa.

I simply disagree, they grew up here and this is their home. They are hungry to work and contribute to our society like ALL of our ancestors were who first came here. They should be given the opportunity to do that without being displaced to a foreign land

So anyone under what age? who comes to America can get away with breaking the law and become citizens. We need to know this so all the kids throughout the world can know what age to claim they are when they lie to DCS.

 

[Slyhunter]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

What they needed to do was to deport all the illegal aliens regardless of age and to stop trading with any country that refused to accept back their illegals.

 

[Pop23]

It is possible to walk and chew gum... Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers, which is the moral and right thing to do, while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality. This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.

If you don't like the law here you could always pick up all your marbles and move with them back to their homelands. You are free to go help them get adjusted and improve their living conditions in their own home countries.

I proposed earlier a compromise that should make everyone happy, but it killed the thread that it was posted on:

Allow one dreamer to stay in this country in exchange for one progressive that leaves and renounces their US citizenship. There are enough that claimed they would leave the country if Trump won anyway.

It's a win/win if you ask me

 

[jc456]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

no obummer had no right to pass that EO. it was unconstitutional.

 

[Fiero425]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

no obummer had no right to pass that EO. it was unconstitutional.

Go back to school goober! If it was so illegal, why wasn't it overturned years ago? Get a conscience while you're at it!

 

[jc456]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

no obummer had no right to pass that EO. it was unconstitutional.

Go back to school goober! If it was so illegal, why wasn't it overturned years ago? Get a conscience while you're at it!

ask the governors who were ready to bring it to court. just cause no one brought it in yet, doesn't make it constitutional. wow. even Diane Feinstein said it was. your own fking party.

 

[Borillar]

With all of the different aspects regarding DACA and the fate of the dreamers, what should the priority be:

1. If a "Dreamer" has a criminal record - deport them.
2. If not, give them green cards with path to citizenship.
3. Until then, no welfare, housing assistance, Social Security, unemployment, food stamps, or voting rights.

 

[Fiero425]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

no obummer had no right to pass that EO. it was unconstitutional.

Go back to school goober! If it was so illegal, why wasn't it overturned years ago? Get a conscience while you're at it!

ask the governors who were ready to bring it to court. just cause no one brought it in yet, doesn't make it constitutional. wow. even Diane Feinstein said it was. your own fking party.

You look at the PARTY they represent! That's all you need to know; unconscionable jerks "on the right" placating the bigots! Now that Trump has done his worse, now they're backing off! Ryan and McConnell are on the spot and are now ruing the day the ORANGE one did this!

 

[Borillar]

Immigration isn't addressed in the Constitution and so I guess it all depends if one believes whether the Constitution is a "living document"?

If it is I would select as my answer (A) the Constitution.
If it isn't I would say (C) none of the above, our immigration laws are un-constitutional and it is up to the states.

I'm leaning towards (A) and hope Congress acts to prevent Trump from having to pull an Obama.

immigration is addressed in our laws. we have laws and those laws are constantly shit on by libturds.

Or ignored by righttards who like cheap labor.

 

[Slyhunter]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

no obummer had no right to pass that EO. it was unconstitutional.

Go back to school goober! If it was so illegal, why wasn't it overturned years ago? Get a conscience while you're at it!

It wasn't overturned because nobody, with money, paid lawyers to do so. It isn't automatic. Lots of laws are out there that are illegal that haven't been overturned simply because they haven't been applied to a person willing to pay the lawyers to fight them.

 

[Slyhunter]

With all of the different aspects regarding DACA and the fate of the dreamers, what should the priority be:

1. If a "Dreamer" has a criminal record - deport them.
2. If not, give them green cards with path to citizenship.
3. Until then, no welfare, housing assistance, Social Security, unemployment, food stamps, or voting rights.

Only if they build the wall.
Give a little get a little.
One DACA brat per mile of wall.

 

[Unkotare]

.

 

[Cecilie1200]

With all of the different aspects regarding DACA and the fate of the dreamers, what should the priority be:

The Constitution and the rule of law of course.

Trump did the right thing, grabbing the Congress Critters-R and Congress Critters-D by the backs of their necks, banging their heads together and telling them to do their jobs for a change.

Constitution and the Rule of Law: 1 - Hobbesian Assholes: 0

That's a rather generous and optimistic interpretation of what Trump did.

Also, while I agree that the Constitution and other laws should definitely guide whatever measures are taken, the question here is what purpose should be served, and laws cannot themselves BE the purpose. They can only be the means to serve that purpose.

That being said, I think the purpose that should be the first priority in immigration should always be what is in the best interests of the United States.

 

[RodISHI]

A president made a promise to these "Dreamers!" All Congress had to do was ratify his EO by doing their damn job and passing a bill! They were too concerned about screwing him over, not giving a damn about precedent! How soon they forget Reagan forgave "immigrants" and Carter gave amnesty to "draft dodger!" Obama was perfectly within his rights to pass that temp. fix! The problem was with Congress who knew what they needed to do, but they're so dysfunctional they can't do much of anything with their majorities in both HOUSES! It's pathetic, but what else can be said about these Neanderthal "on the right!" Not like I have much sympathy for us since we've given Republicans total control! I just wonder when these losers will stop blaming everything on our downfall!

What they needed to do was to deport all the illegal aliens regardless of age and to stop trading with any country that refused to accept back their illegals.

yep.... Sessions also needs to get on deporting this asshole's illegal family members asap....

 

[Cecilie1200]

ohh, great tactic, threaten 750,000 people with deportation to motivate congress. Maybe he should threaten to seize Americans assets to pay off the debt as a tactic to motivate congress to get Tax reform done!

Dear Cardinal Richelieu,

Apparently the Constitution and the Rule of Law aren't your cup of tea.

Perhaps someday the absolutist Presidency you're looking for will emerge but today isn't that day.

"They define a republic to be a government of laws, and not of men." -- John Adams

If all we did was follow the rule of law and not push to evolve our laws with the changes and advancements of our society then we would still have slavery and segregated schools.

Trump did challenge congress to pass a law changing the status of the dreamers, which probably was going to be changed to illegal and subject to deportation by the courts.

It is the right move to push congress to take care of this issue via legislation, the EO wasn't going to last. I don't think scaring the shit out of 750,000 people by threatening deportation is a smart tactic to use. This move should have been handle much better

I think the Dreamers are going to be scared. Trump has little option to say unless congress gives them legal status, he'll refer them to the DOJ for deporation like everyone else here illegally

Yeeeeaaaahhh . . . how'd that work out? I could have told you even before Trump did that he had no intention of actually deporting those people.

 

[Kondor3]

It is possible to walk and chew gum...

Indeed... it's possible to both flush-out the present invasion-wave of 11-12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, and take strong measures to prevent a future wave.

...Trump could have proposed an immigration reform plan to protect the dreamers...

Yes... he could have... fortunately, he did not; quite the opposite, in fact... one of the few actions of his that merits broad approval.

...which is the moral and right thing to do...

That is your interpretation.

It is not the interpretation of vast numbers of your fellow Americans.

...while also rescinding the EO to make the constitutional point. Or he could have let the EO get shut down by the courts and set a precedent on its constitutionality...

Au contraire... a quick, forceful fait accompli... without giving your side a lot of time to kvetch and bitch and moan and whine and cry... was exactly what was needed.

...This move was super careless, sloppy and divisive.

The move was a cold, precise, accurate calculation.

Your side has been dividing America for decades, standing alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your fellow Americans.

You found out just HOW angry the rest of America was about your stance, on November 8, 2016...

Not that your side is bright enough to learn from its mistakes and resurrect that long-slumbering pragmatism that you'll need to return to political power anytime soon.

You are now sitting on the sidelines as the minority party, and are out of power in all branches of government, on several levels - and - you have just been out-flanked.

Payback's a bitch.

Enjoy.