In Regards To DACA, what Should Be The Priority?

[Slade3200]

No they are completely different situations. I shouldn't have to explain that to you

If their parents violated the law they deserve to be in jail. They're kids should be sent back home, just like my kids would be, without profiting from their parents illegal activities, ie. sent back home to Mexico.

Not all laws are warrant jailing. For example speeding on the freeway or trespassing on private property... Kids that were brought here then spent the majority of their life here have a home and it is here. If they want to profit and achieve success then they have to work for it. Under DACA the kids aren't eligible for welfare or citizenship, it just allows them to seek education and work without fear of deportation. If you could look at the situation objectively I think you'd understand that.

If you look at it objectively you'd realize they don't belong here. We limit immigration to a million a year for a reason.

The dreamers are a group of approx 800k that have been here for 16 years... That is 50K a year in comparison to the 1 Million a year of immigrants that are admitted. That's 5%. Talk about making a mountain out of an anthill. Yall are way over blowing this. Have you taken anytime to try and consider this from their perspective? Have you listen to any of their stories? Honestly, have you?

Let them stay it will issue a message to the rest of the planet. Just be underage to escape America's laws.

I asked you a simple question. Care to answer?

 

[Unkotare]

If their parents violated the law they deserve to be in jail. They're kids should be sent back home, just like my kids would be, without profiting from their parents illegal activities, ie. sent back home to Mexico.

Not all laws are warrant jailing. For example speeding on the freeway or trespassing on private property... Kids that were brought here then spent the majority of their life here have a home and it is here. If they want to profit and achieve success then they have to work for it. Under DACA the kids aren't eligible for welfare or citizenship, it just allows them to seek education and work without fear of deportation. If you could look at the situation objectively I think you'd understand that.

If you look at it objectively you'd realize they don't belong here. We limit immigration to a million a year for a reason.

The dreamers are a group of approx 800k that have been here for 16 years... That is 50K a year in comparison to the 1 Million a year of immigrants that are admitted. That's 5%. Talk about making a mountain out of an anthill. Yall are way over blowing this. Have you taken anytime to try and consider this from their perspective? Have you listen to any of their stories? Honestly, have you?

Appeal to emotion.

Sure, so what? ....

So it's illogical.

 

[Kondor3]

Drumpf has lied so many times and broken so many promises that most folks have lost count, and he'll say damned-near anything that moves the ball forward, any given day.

I don't trust him any more than I trust your side, in this matter, but he did set the stage to make your side whine and howl and piss themselves with fright and rage.

That, by itself, is worth a good belly-laugh or two.

Ok buddy Way to take the conversation down to the gutter. Says a lot about how strong a point you have

That was nowhere near the gutter, chum... just rubbing some well-deserved (on the part of your side) salt in the wounds... and having fun doing it.

Good for you. Come back once you've grown up a bit, you're acting like a child

Lord-have-mercy, but I DO love it when I hit the mark, and the Lefties have nothing but invective and ad hominem remaining in the bottom of their pathetic ammo-pouch...

You haven't hit any nails. Look at the last few messages you've posted. No substance just petty insults to try and instill some false sense of victory. You are doing exactly what you are trying to accuse me of. They call that hypocritical

Your Honor, the Prosecution rests...

 

[Slade3200]

Not all laws are warrant jailing. For example speeding on the freeway or trespassing on private property... Kids that were brought here then spent the majority of their life here have a home and it is here. If they want to profit and achieve success then they have to work for it. Under DACA the kids aren't eligible for welfare or citizenship, it just allows them to seek education and work without fear of deportation. If you could look at the situation objectively I think you'd understand that.

If you look at it objectively you'd realize they don't belong here. We limit immigration to a million a year for a reason.

The dreamers are a group of approx 800k that have been here for 16 years... That is 50K a year in comparison to the 1 Million a year of immigrants that are admitted. That's 5%. Talk about making a mountain out of an anthill. Yall are way over blowing this. Have you taken anytime to try and consider this from their perspective? Have you listen to any of their stories? Honestly, have you?

Appeal to emotion.

Sure, so what? ....

So it's illogical.

Why?

 

[Kondor3]

...We are talking about DACA here....

Which is profoundly and inextricably interwoven with the problem of Illegal Aliens... give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile... so... no inch... no DACA.

Sets a terrible precedent against American interests and sends the wrong signal to prospective future waves of invaders.

The correct signal is: "Your unlawful entry into our country will not be rewarded with your children being allowed to stay."

A long-overdue and harsh lesson, as one tactic in a bag full of tactics, used to repel the present invasion of 11-12,000,000, and to discourage future invasions.

Who knows? Perhaps a Republican-controlled Congress, or Herr Build-A-Wall, will let them stay, eh?

Don't get your hopes up

If you really believe that a Republican-controlled Congress or Mister Build-A-Wall is going to act to explicitly let them stay, may that belief comfort you.

For another 5 months and 24 days...

Have you been listening to Trump at all the past few days. "I love these kids" I want congress to pass DACA and protect them. If they don't I'll take another look at the situation...

And you believed him... the Imperial Cheeto?... really?... uh, yeah...

 

[Unkotare]

If you look at it objectively you'd realize they don't belong here. We limit immigration to a million a year for a reason.

The dreamers are a group of approx 800k that have been here for 16 years... That is 50K a year in comparison to the 1 Million a year of immigrants that are admitted. That's 5%. Talk about making a mountain out of an anthill. Yall are way over blowing this. Have you taken anytime to try and consider this from their perspective? Have you listen to any of their stories? Honestly, have you?

Appeal to emotion.

Sure, so what? ....

So it's illogical.

Why?

It's a classic logical fallacy. You didn't know that?

 

[Slade3200]

...We are talking about DACA here....

Which is profoundly and inextricably interwoven with the problem of Illegal Aliens... give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile... so... no inch... no DACA.

Sets a terrible precedent against American interests and sends the wrong signal to prospective future waves of invaders.

The correct signal is: "Your unlawful entry into our country will not be rewarded with your children being allowed to stay."

A long-overdue and harsh lesson, as one tactic in a bag full of tactics, used to repel the present invasion of 11-12,000,000, and to discourage future invasions.

Who knows? Perhaps a Republican-controlled Congress, or Herr Build-A-Wall, will let them stay, eh?

Don't get your hopes up

If you really believe that a Republican-controlled Congress or Mister Build-A-Wall is going to act to explicitly let them stay, may that belief comfort you.

For another 5 months and 24 days...

Have you been listening to Trump at all the past few days. "I love these kids" I want congress to pass DACA and protect them. If they don't I'll take another look at the situation...

And you believed him... the Imperial Cheeto?... really?... uh, yeah...

Yeah I do. Why would he lie about that?

 

[Slade3200]

The dreamers are a group of approx 800k that have been here for 16 years... That is 50K a year in comparison to the 1 Million a year of immigrants that are admitted. That's 5%. Talk about making a mountain out of an anthill. Yall are way over blowing this. Have you taken anytime to try and consider this from their perspective? Have you listen to any of their stories? Honestly, have you?

Appeal to emotion.

Sure, so what? ....

So it's illogical.

Why?

It's a classic logical fallacy. You didn't know that?

No I didn't, please explain

 

[usmbguest5318]

Where's the "neither" option?

 

[Crixus]

Priority is first kick this little Pendejo out.

Sad thing is, amnesty is coming.

Fuck amnesty
Sadly I know you are probably right.

Love the avi.

 

[Crixus]

Any plan Trump might put forward (other than unconditional amnesty) would instantly be torn to pieces by the DemPress as inherently racist. What is so wrong with following the Constitutional provision that legislation originates in Congress?

You make assumptions, that means nothing and is no excuse to support inaction from Trump as far as providing a detailed plan... There is nothing wrong with using Congress to legislate, thats what should happen. DACA was never meant to be permanent law, it was a deferral to protect the "Dreamers" from deportation while congress figured out legislation.

he just gave american children their country back. you illegal lover.

Ouch, you really got me there. Good one.
Excuse me for caring about PEOPLE. Especially innocent people who are being outcasted for no fault of their own.

Not an excuse. The people who came illegally are not my problem. Neither are their kids. Speaking of which, anyone know the avrage age of a dreamer?

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

 

[Slade3200]

You make assumptions, that means nothing and is no excuse to support inaction from Trump as far as providing a detailed plan... There is nothing wrong with using Congress to legislate, thats what should happen. DACA was never meant to be permanent law, it was a deferral to protect the "Dreamers" from deportation while congress figured out legislation.

he just gave american children their country back. you illegal lover.

Ouch, you really got me there. Good one.
Excuse me for caring about PEOPLE. Especially innocent people who are being outcasted for no fault of their own.

Not an excuse. The people who came illegally are not my problem. Neither are their kids. Speaking of which, anyone know the avrage age of a dreamer?

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

The age that the average dreamer was brought here is 6 years old. The average age of the current dreamer is 22. Look it up.

 

[NightFox]

In other words President Nimrod, the guy that was supposed to be the leader failed to persuade Congress and it's constituents that it was the right thing to do, yet instead of him following proper constitutional order and rescinding his executive order for prosecutorial discretion in the deportation of "the dreamers" since he lacked the Constitutional Authority to in effect unilaterally alter federal legislation, he behaved as a small child would and stubbornly ignored the representatives of the majority will of the people, because as usual with the Nimrod his opinion was the only one that counted (a trait shared by many would be autocrats).

Thus we are here, where President Twitter has to clean up a mess made by President Nimrod, because President Nimrod lacked both effective leadership skills and humility.


Apparently you don't understand the difference between acting based on emotion and acting based on generally accepted morality.

Maybe these examples will help:
The Nuremberg Laws = enacted due to a purely emotional response (fear & anger mostly)
Amendment XIII to the U.S. Constitution = enacted due to the generally accepted belief that slavery was immoral (props to President Lincoln and all the abolitionist cohorts that PERSUADED the majority will of the people that this was true).

See the difference?

LOL, what a laudable goal... let "the dreamers" stay for a few years, give 'em hope and then have that hope smashed on the rocks when someone finally got around to mounting a legal challenge to his unconstitutional usurpation of legislative authority. Like I said before, those taking up the cause of "the dreamers" should be angry with President Nimrod for not following through using proper Constitutional order, he had more than enough time to do so.

The dream act was tried through congress many times. Our useless congress kept loading it up with other immigration agenda items and it never passed.

Uh-huh because the President never made a convincing reason & evidence based case that it was the right thing to do from a social, economic and security standpoint, it's the President's job to do this and failing that the appropriate thing to do would have been to rescind his EO, however President Nimrod choose to leave it intact, which leads one to believe that his intention was to create a wedge issue to serve as a thorn in the side of his political opponents, which is what he's managed to accomplish.

Don't forget the Nimrod had control of both Houses of Congress for 2 years after his election and if this had REALLY been an issue that needed resolving he had both the time and opportunity to accomplish it via normal order, this only became an issue he "cared about" AFTER the Republicans took control of the House and thus it gave him the opportunity to make it a political one.

Nothing was being done so Obama took action and successfully gave these kids opportunity to work and seek an education. It appears now that Trump is going to lead an effort to solidify a law to protect them. I don't like the chaotic way it's being done by Trump but if it gets the right results Through his leadership then I will give him credit. Like it or not what Obama did was effective.

You still don't seem to understand the difference between acting based on emotion and acting based on reason, the legislative process that we have as messy and inefficient as it may be is the only way to achieve a triumph of reason over emotion, since debate and deliberation (i.e. weighing immediate and opportunity costs as well as social impact prior to making any decisions) is required to accomplish that objective. "Giving these kids the opportunity to work and seek an education" is not a justification for the Executive to usurp legislative authority, it's an appeal to sympathy by a would be autocrat, the case must be made based on economic and social criteria that both justifies the costs and mitigates any potential negative societal effects and then Constitutional order must be observed else the rule of law is undermined.

All that Obama accomplished was to turn "the dreamers" into political pawns while at the same time further dividing the citizenry and distracting the political machinery in Washington from FAR more urgent matters.

Your entire analysis is political spin. You think he turned them into pawns, that's not true

Uh-huh, that's why we have mass protests and Congress Critters stepping all over each other to get spotlight on this "issue".

The "dreamers" are perfect political pawns because the masses of sheeple react exactly like you are, all emotion NO REASON.

, these kids were undocumented, living Off the grid in fear of deportation. He gave them an opportunity to join society, and pursue work and an education.

More appeals to EMOTION.... where's the reason and evidence based analysis? What are the economic impacts and opportunity costs of DACA? what are the negative societal consequences? what are the benefits? if the benefits outweigh the costs why not make a reason and evidence based case and follow proper Constitutional order?

He may have cross the line with his legal authority but he did what many feel was the right thing on a human level.

There is no *may* about it, he overstepped his authority and "the right thing on a human level" is nothing but a bunch of meaningless word salad, when it comes to National Public Policy the "right thing" can only be determined by reasoned analysis of costs and benefits not by sympathy and sobbing.

Go ahead an attack "emotional" actions if it makes you feel tough and superior but what he did made a difference and it was better than the alternative of doing nothing.

It isn't about "tough" it's about making decisions based on reason and evidence versus making decisions based on how you "feel" , the former most often leads to positive outcomes the latter to disasters.

That's where we disagree. I think it's fine making decisions based on how we feel. Morals, emotion, sense of right and wrong all play a part in our most important decisions. Why did Trump drop 50 tomahawk missles on Syria? Because Assad dropped Chem weapons on his people. Those were his people. It puts so why did we drop bombs? You don't think emotion and standing up for basic human rights played a roll in that decision?

Doubtful that it was emotion, its possible however our military command has never had a tendency to make decisions or recommendation to the civilian authority that way, by all appearances the strike driven by threats to the strategic interests of the U.S. in the region and the desire to contain Asad by limiting his military options coupled with sending a message to the Russians.

The whole "human rights" spiel was a propaganda campaign to make military action more palatable to the public, just like it always has been, if the government gave a fig about human rights in foreign countries we'd be constantly in conflict with the plethora of countries around the world that routinely engage in gross violations of basic human rights, The government only gives a damn when those countries threaten our interests.

 

[Slade3200]

You make assumptions, that means nothing and is no excuse to support inaction from Trump as far as providing a detailed plan... There is nothing wrong with using Congress to legislate, thats what should happen. DACA was never meant to be permanent law, it was a deferral to protect the "Dreamers" from deportation while congress figured out legislation.

he just gave american children their country back. you illegal lover.

Ouch, you really got me there. Good one.
Excuse me for caring about PEOPLE. Especially innocent people who are being outcasted for no fault of their own.

Not an excuse. The people who came illegally are not my problem. Neither are their kids. Speaking of which, anyone know the avrage age of a dreamer?

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

 

[Crixus]

he just gave american children their country back. you illegal lover.

Ouch, you really got me there. Good one.
Excuse me for caring about PEOPLE. Especially innocent people who are being outcasted for no fault of their own.

Not an excuse. The people who came illegally are not my problem. Neither are their kids. Speaking of which, anyone know the avrage age of a dreamer?

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

Not my observation dude, that's your folks up in the news. And you already dismissed any type of evidence by insinuating it's fake news because "many agencies are reporting ", yet, where you get yours is 100%? You want amnesty, that's the side you are on. At least defend that. Don't borrow from Trump and call it fake news and run away. Here is a fact as an excample. A DACA recipient had to spoilt beforenage 16. All the DACA people you see on Tav have been over 20, like the dreamer who raped and beat the teeth out of that kid in Seattle. Check out number 7con the 15 facts you should know about DACA. Check out number seven and pull the string. DACA is amnesty.

 

[Slade3200]

Ouch, you really got me there. Good one.
Excuse me for caring about PEOPLE. Especially innocent people who are being outcasted for no fault of their own.

Not an excuse. The people who came illegally are not my problem. Neither are their kids. Speaking of which, anyone know the avrage age of a dreamer?

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

Not my observation dude, that's your folks up in the news. And you already dismissed any type of evidence by insinuating it's fake news because "many agencies are reporting ", yet, where you get yours is 100%? You want amnesty, that's the side you are on. At least defend that. Don't borrow from Trump and call it fake news and run away. Here is a fact as an excample. A DACA recipient had to spoilt beforenage 16. All the DACA people you see on Tav have been over 20, like the dreamer who raped and beat the teeth out of that kid in Seattle. Check out number 7con the 15 facts you should know about DACA. Check out number seven and pull the string. DACA is amnesty.

I never said a word about fake news and I never claimed any report is 100%. Be skeptical all you want but at least point to something. I posted a fox news article that presented facts found by an organization that ran a study. Question it all you want but put some substance behind your arguments. You are only expelling empty claims up to this point.

Yes DACA is temporary amnesty but it is a not citizenship. They have to register every two years. It was designed as a safety blanket to act while congress tried and legislate. Graham and Durbin are presenting the Dream Act that would make some form of amnesty law for the dreamers.

 

[Crixus]

Not an excuse. The people who came illegally are not my problem. Neither are their kids. Speaking of which, anyone know the avrage age of a dreamer?

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

Not my observation dude, that's your folks up in the news. And you already dismissed any type of evidence by insinuating it's fake news because "many agencies are reporting ", yet, where you get yours is 100%? You want amnesty, that's the side you are on. At least defend that. Don't borrow from Trump and call it fake news and run away. Here is a fact as an excample. A DACA recipient had to spoilt beforenage 16. All the DACA people you see on Tav have been over 20, like the dreamer who raped and beat the teeth out of that kid in Seattle. Check out number 7con the 15 facts you should know about DACA. Check out number seven and pull the string. DACA is amnesty.

I never said a word about fake news and I never claimed any report is 100%. Be skeptical all you want but at least point to something. I posted a fox news article that presented facts found by an organization that ran a study. Question it all you want but put some substance behind your arguments. You are only expelling empty claims up to this point.

Yes DACA is temporary amnesty but it is a not citizenship. They have to register every two years. It was designed as a safety blanket to act while congress tried and legislate. Graham and Durbin are presenting the Dream Act that would make some form of amnesty law for the dreamers.

Yes, so it's amnesty under another name since now Mr. Grahamnesty is now calling 11,000,000 illegal adults "dreamers". And you did try to call it something else, you just diddnt realize it. It's what you will see from the trumpkins when Trump grants amnesty.

 

[Slade3200]

Yeah, they were 6 years old when they came here

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

Not my observation dude, that's your folks up in the news. And you already dismissed any type of evidence by insinuating it's fake news because "many agencies are reporting ", yet, where you get yours is 100%? You want amnesty, that's the side you are on. At least defend that. Don't borrow from Trump and call it fake news and run away. Here is a fact as an excample. A DACA recipient had to spoilt beforenage 16. All the DACA people you see on Tav have been over 20, like the dreamer who raped and beat the teeth out of that kid in Seattle. Check out number 7con the 15 facts you should know about DACA. Check out number seven and pull the string. DACA is amnesty.

I never said a word about fake news and I never claimed any report is 100%. Be skeptical all you want but at least point to something. I posted a fox news article that presented facts found by an organization that ran a study. Question it all you want but put some substance behind your arguments. You are only expelling empty claims up to this point.

Yes DACA is temporary amnesty but it is a not citizenship. They have to register every two years. It was designed as a safety blanket to act while congress tried and legislate. Graham and Durbin are presenting the Dream Act that would make some form of amnesty law for the dreamers.

Yes, so it's amnesty under another name since now Mr. Grahamnesty is now calling 11,000,000 illegal adults "dreamers". And you did try to call it something else, you just diddnt realize it. It's what you will see from the trumpkins when Trump grants amnesty.

When did graham call all illegals "dreamers"?

 

[Crixus]

Hmm, no, not really. Everyone on the news only came like 5 years prior. How could that be if the avrage age is over 20 but under 35? That's some fuzzy George bush math.

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

Not my observation dude, that's your folks up in the news. And you already dismissed any type of evidence by insinuating it's fake news because "many agencies are reporting ", yet, where you get yours is 100%? You want amnesty, that's the side you are on. At least defend that. Don't borrow from Trump and call it fake news and run away. Here is a fact as an excample. A DACA recipient had to spoilt beforenage 16. All the DACA people you see on Tav have been over 20, like the dreamer who raped and beat the teeth out of that kid in Seattle. Check out number 7con the 15 facts you should know about DACA. Check out number seven and pull the string. DACA is amnesty.

I never said a word about fake news and I never claimed any report is 100%. Be skeptical all you want but at least point to something. I posted a fox news article that presented facts found by an organization that ran a study. Question it all you want but put some substance behind your arguments. You are only expelling empty claims up to this point.

Yes DACA is temporary amnesty but it is a not citizenship. They have to register every two years. It was designed as a safety blanket to act while congress tried and legislate. Graham and Durbin are presenting the Dream Act that would make some form of amnesty law for the dreamers.

Yes, so it's amnesty under another name since now Mr. Grahamnesty is now calling 11,000,000 illegal adults "dreamers". And you did try to call it something else, you just diddnt realize it. It's what you will see from the trumpkins when Trump grants amnesty.

When did graham call all illegals "dreamers"?

A He not only mentioned the dreamers, all 11'000,000 of them but their families to. Now, why is it even a question when DACA was created FOR illegals?

 

[Slade3200]

Show some facts to back up your argument then. They have many organizations running reports in this. Your observations from your lazyboy aren't very convincing. Prove your claims... I've provided my sources

Not my observation dude, that's your folks up in the news. And you already dismissed any type of evidence by insinuating it's fake news because "many agencies are reporting ", yet, where you get yours is 100%? You want amnesty, that's the side you are on. At least defend that. Don't borrow from Trump and call it fake news and run away. Here is a fact as an excample. A DACA recipient had to spoilt beforenage 16. All the DACA people you see on Tav have been over 20, like the dreamer who raped and beat the teeth out of that kid in Seattle. Check out number 7con the 15 facts you should know about DACA. Check out number seven and pull the string. DACA is amnesty.

I never said a word about fake news and I never claimed any report is 100%. Be skeptical all you want but at least point to something. I posted a fox news article that presented facts found by an organization that ran a study. Question it all you want but put some substance behind your arguments. You are only expelling empty claims up to this point.

Yes DACA is temporary amnesty but it is a not citizenship. They have to register every two years. It was designed as a safety blanket to act while congress tried and legislate. Graham and Durbin are presenting the Dream Act that would make some form of amnesty law for the dreamers.

Yes, so it's amnesty under another name since now Mr. Grahamnesty is now calling 11,000,000 illegal adults "dreamers". And you did try to call it something else, you just diddnt realize it. It's what you will see from the trumpkins when Trump grants amnesty.

When did graham call all illegals "dreamers"?

A He not only mentioned the dreamers, all 11'000,000 of them but their families to. Now, why is it even a question when DACA was created FOR illegals?

There are just under 800,000 registered dreamers. What are you talking about with 11 million?