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You know I am conservative.
But I don't agree that we have equality of opportunity. And I am not talking about the poor.
There is so much wealth concentration that I believe we have people who are literally buying political systems (and these systems are populated with people who want to be bought) to protect their wealth.
There is nothing new in that, it has been that way since the dawn of man. There is no new ground being plowed here.
The USA in 1776 was the best change to change that but now we have allowed ourselves to revert to a feudal system with the govt as the king.
Let's as that Spacely Sprockets is engaging in some questionable behavior to give them an unfair advantage in the sprocket industry. How does that stop me from gaining wealth? Couldn't I get an engineering degree and earn six figures working for Spacely Sprockets in an industry where they were the giant?
My point is that there have always been rich and always been poor. I don't know if that is "natural" or not, but it is factual.
It is also true that the poor have always envied the rich and wanted to bring them down----------human nature is what it is no matter how "civilized" we claim to be.
the USA was the best hope to break that cycle and allow everyone an equal opportunity to become rich, or better off than his/her parents.
But liberalism has destroyed that ideal.
While I understand that it's not very noble to envy someone for their money, I just want to note that the poor often despised the rich (especially in times past) due to the fact they were brutally, brutally oppressed by those folks and lived miserable existences without any hope of "moving up".
When you oppress a large portion of society to poverty, everyone ultimately suffers because the only pool of minds who have the resources to solve problems are the very few, very rich. If you could somehow get the WHOLE society motivated and educated to solve problems, great innovations and ideas will flourish. This is America.
However, we're once again seeing signs that the ruling elite are usurping democracy and making the rules to benefit only themselves and not the rest of society (I'm being very general of course), and I think there are people growing quite concerned about this.
How are Bill Gates, Peyton Manning, and Oprah oppressing people into poverty? How are they usurping democracy? All very rich, explain exactly how their wealth is forcing others into poverty.
Why? money that is invested has already been taxed when it was earned. Do you enjoy paying taxes on the interest on your savings account?
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
The profit was taxed, dumbass...they you pay taxes on it as income when you get a distribution.
Why? money that is invested has already been taxed when it was earned. Do you enjoy paying taxes on the interest on your savings account?
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
The profit was taxed, dumbass...they you pay taxes on it as income when you get a distribution.
I am saying capital gains should be taxed at the same rate as earned income
Why? money that is invested has already been taxed when it was earned. Do you enjoy paying taxes on the interest on your savings account?
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
"Income inequality," like very other libturd propaganda meme, is a justification to loot your income. Libturds are always looking for ways to get their hands on more of what you have earned. Liberalism can't expand and grow without a growing share of the national product. They will never give up.
Tell that to the working middle class and most economists.
Income inequality is slowing the recovery because of less expendable income for the consumer class thanks to flat wages. Yet profits have been very, very good. Since 2009 a huge percentage of the income growth has been realized by only the few at the top.
Consider 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending.
So I ask you, why do you hate America?
That is a ridiculous response.
1. I'm middle class and I agree with him and not you.
2. Rich people spend money and hire people.
3. Consumers are still spending.
4. The "why do you hate America" statement lands your whole post in the dustbin category.
While I understand that it's not very noble to envy someone for their money, I just want to note that the poor often despised the rich (especially in times past) due to the fact they were brutally, brutally oppressed by those folks and lived miserable existences without any hope of "moving up".
When you oppress a large portion of society to poverty, everyone ultimately suffers because the only pool of minds who have the resources to solve problems are the very few, very rich. If you could somehow get the WHOLE society motivated and educated to solve problems, great innovations and ideas will flourish. This is America.
However, we're once again seeing signs that the ruling elite are usurping democracy and making the rules to benefit only themselves and not the rest of society (I'm being very general of course), and I think there are people growing quite concerned about this.
How are Bill Gates, Peyton Manning, and Oprah oppressing people into poverty? How are they usurping democracy? All very rich, explain exactly how their wealth is forcing others into poverty.
I'm not talking about those people. Those are individuals who fulfill a societal demand, and have become very rich doing so. This is the proper way of things.
On the flipside, what societal demand exactly did Goldman Sachs fulfill when they defrauded investors by selling shitty mortgage backed securities as "safe, AAA investments"? In Goldman email records they clearly say "the products are shit" and they brag about how they're selling them to morons. They should have been arrested, but the government turns a blind eye. This is what I'm upset about.
I understand your argument and agree with most of it, however I think you're failing to understand mine.
My point is that crony capitalism is on the rise (vs on the fall), and that politicians are becoming less and less honorable/ethical, and that this is seriously beginning to threaten a poor American's ability to ascend and succeed if they have the skill and talent to do so.
Maybe it's always been that way - I don't know - however I've read at least a few books that have mentioned the fact that a Congressperson on a defense committee today wouldn't think twice about attending a fundraiser and rub shoulders with powerful defense lobbyists whereas 50 years ago that type of thing would be heavily frowned upon as unethical.
My point is that we're headed in the wrong direction, and that any resemblances of a "free market" are quickly fading with each passing year.
I ful
I think we are pretty much in agreement. corporate and special interest bribery of politicians is a problem. Liberal thinking is another problem.
As to the defence industry, that industry employees millions of americans in good paying blue and white collar jobs, those companies and their employees pay billions in federal taxes.
the industry is not the problem, the problem is the DC mindset that the USA has to police the world and force our value system on other countries.
the best warship or plane or tank is one that is never used but the enemy knows that it could be if necessary.
I favor term limits and a ban of all types of lobbying.
Bolded should be titled: Why Citizens United is a bad idea
Is it a healthy economic system that sequesters the majority of the wealth among the minority of the workers? Is a vibrant, upwardly mobile middle class something to be proud of, or something that should merely take care of itself? Are the ratios of pay between CEOs and workers an equitable one? Can the current ratios be sustainable?It's an election year and we will be hearing a lot if bull shit. No bigger pile of crap than "income equality" or lack thereof.
While we should have equality of opportunity (and we do), no one has a right to equality of outcome. The outcome of your opportunity is entirely up to you.
This whole issue is nothing but "spreading the wealth around" rehashed. Obama and the democrats didn't do anything about income equality in the first 5 years, in fact the gap has gotten worse, so they think that if they call it something else they can repackage it and sell it to the sheeple again and they will buy it. They have no real plan to do anything about it but campaign on it.
Equality of opportunity - free capitalist society
Equality of outcome - oppressive socialist society
No one is calling for redistribution of wealth. Folks are responsibly asking if the current system is fair and sustainable. Many issues seen by many Conservatives are much simpler than the Conservative pundits proclaim. Global Warming is a good example. People generally want what's best for the planet and our children's futures. Conservatives are told by pundits employed by mega corporations that Global Warming is a myth. That there is no such thing. Now why would mega corporations want you to think this way? Because it will cost money to remediate and mega corporations aren't about to spend that money.
Income inequality is another outgrowth of the laizzez faire Capitalist system championed by the mega corporations. They want to fill your mind with myths that giving the lion's share of the capital to those who own it and then slighting those who produced it by freezing wages and benefits is the wisest decision we as a society could make. This of course erodes the capital from the middle class. It's the middle class consumer spending that drives our economy. But the monied interests want you to think that a strong middle class won't possibly generate jobs like a strong minority or uber-wealthy can.
Many of our current economic problems stem from this skewed philosophy of cutting earnings of workers and enlarging the take available to the very very few.
Why? money that is invested has already been taxed when it was earned. Do you enjoy paying taxes on the interest on your savings account?
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
Why would people put their capital at such risk for very little gain?
How are Bill Gates, Peyton Manning, and Oprah oppressing people into poverty? How are they usurping democracy? All very rich, explain exactly how their wealth is forcing others into poverty.
I'm not talking about those people. Those are individuals who fulfill a societal demand, and have become very rich doing so. This is the proper way of things.
On the flipside, what societal demand exactly did Goldman Sachs fulfill when they defrauded investors by selling shitty mortgage backed securities as "safe, AAA investments"? In Goldman email records they clearly say "the products are shit" and they brag about how they're selling them to morons. They should have been arrested, but the government turns a blind eye. This is what I'm upset about.
Me too, they should be jailed, not bailed out. Same with GM. Why should WE bail out criminals and incompetent managers?
So, you don't hate all rich people, only conservatives and bankers. OK, I get it.
You know I am conservative.
But I don't agree that we have equality of opportunity. And I am not talking about the poor.
There is so much wealth concentration that I believe we have people who are literally buying political systems (and these systems are populated with people who want to be bought) to protect their wealth.
I'm sure you are right but how does that prevent anyone from obtaining wealth?
Again, Predfan, when a working class person loses his job because a Wallstreeter thought it would be fun and lucrative to defraud investors out of billions of dollars, and was able to do so because he had enough money to buy a few key legislators, isn't that working class person being denied a shot at obtaining wealth?
What about when all of those 401ks went belly up when the government/wall street party came to an end?
Point is that I'm concerned that the number of feasible opportunities for working class folk to move up in the world is beginning to wane. The trend is not going in the right direction. We need to reverse this.
..
Why? money that is invested has already been taxed when it was earned. Do you enjoy paying taxes on the interest on your savings account?
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
Why would people put their capital at such risk for very little gain?
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
Why would people put their capital at such risk for very little gain?
thats the point that libs do not get. investing is a risk, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. when you win you have to pay taxes on the full amount in the year you make it, when you lose you are only allowed to take part of the loss in that year and have to spread the rest over the next several years.
But ignorant libs have never dealt with that reality and are driven by envy, not logic
I'm sure you are right but how does that prevent anyone from obtaining wealth?
Again, Predfan, when a working class person loses his job because a Wallstreeter thought it would be fun and lucrative to defraud investors out of billions of dollars, and was able to do so because he had enough money to buy a few key legislators, isn't that working class person being denied a shot at obtaining wealth?
What about when all of those 401ks went belly up when the government/wall street party came to an end?
Point is that I'm concerned that the number of feasible opportunities for working class folk to move up in the world is beginning to wane. The trend is not going in the right direction. We need to reverse this.
..
No it isn't. That laid off worker isn't done. His life isn't over. The opportunity still exists, there is not only one profession making only one product. Will it be tough on that person? Probably, but the opportunity is still there.
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
The profit was taxed, dumbass...they you pay taxes on it as income when you get a distribution.
You don't pay the capital gain tax until the year you have taken it
But that isn't their only opportunity. So they can't start an insurance company? Use that pooled money to start something else. When one door closes, another opens. Plus, they are doctors already. They have already achieved wealth.You know I am conservative.
But I don't agree that we have equality of opportunity. And I am not talking about the poor.
There is so much wealth concentration that I believe we have people who are literally buying political systems (and these systems are populated with people who want to be bought) to protect their wealth.
I'm sure you are right but how does that prevent anyone from obtaining wealth?
I am more focused on the statement "equal" opportunity to obtain wealth.
If you think about the government and big business, you can't distinquish them.
Big business used to (and might still) write the regulations to create barriers to entry.
As an example; I had a doctor friend who got with some of his friends to look at starting a local insurance company for their services (they were fed up with insurance in general). They were told they would need hundreds of thousands, if not a million dollars just to get the legal paperwork in place. Additionally, the compliance overhead would kill them.
That isn't equal opportunity (and I know it is an extreme example).
But Obamacare is the same thing...it burdens businesses in a way that skews the playing field.
Only profit is taxed, not principal.........capital "gain"
Why would people put their capital at such risk for very little gain?
thats the point that libs do not get. investing is a risk, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. when you win you have to pay taxes on the full amount in the year you make it, when you lose you are only allowed to take part of the loss in that year and have to spread the rest over the next several years.
But ignorant libs have never dealt with that reality and are driven by envy, not logic
There is nothing new in that, it has been that way since the dawn of man. There is no new ground being plowed here.
The USA in 1776 was the best change to change that but now we have allowed ourselves to revert to a feudal system with the govt as the king.
Let's as that Spacely Sprockets is engaging in some questionable behavior to give them an unfair advantage in the sprocket industry. How does that stop me from gaining wealth? Couldn't I get an engineering degree and earn six figures working for Spacely Sprockets in an industry where they were the giant?
Is Spacely doing anything illegal? if so, they should be prosecuted, if not, tough shit, they are just smarter than their competition.
with your new degree I would expect that you would want to work for the successful sprocket maker. Hell, if you do good he might make you a VP and give you stock options. Yee haa, you become rich by working for it---how awful.
I'm not sure if that's true.Most often in life our destination is determined by the course we take.
I went to college and graduate school. The only job I ever got requiring a degree, was teaching in my college. After that, for 35 years, I applied for hundreds of degree requiring jobs, in 4 different states of the US. I never got hired to one, and I could count on one hand how many times I was even called in for an interview, for one of these. Reasons ? There's a few, most notably affirmative action.My doctor, for example, makes far more than I do. There is significant income inequality between us. Our lives have had an inequality of outcome. But, our lives also have had an inequality of effort. Whereas my doctor went to college and then gave the flower of his young adulthood to medical school and residency, I got a job in a restaurant. He made a choice, I made a choice. And our choices led us to different outcomes.
The simple Law of the Harvest – as ye sow, so shall ye reap – is sometimes applied as, “The harder you work, the more you get.”
