India acting like a spoiled child

[Vikrant]

I just saw the thread. It looks like things are going to get interesting between India and the US. It looks like some truly 'brilliant' people are in charge of the US foreign policy at the moment.

 

[Katzndogz]

Pulling the barricades was the right thing to do. I was glad to see them do it so quickly. Now if they would just start those arrests of American violating India's anti sodomy laws it would be even better.

There are consequences to actions. Liberals will NEVER get this. They think that consequences only happen to other people, not to them and certainly not to Americans.

WTF? Haven't we just lost an ambassador and other personnel to political expediency? You wouldn't say such a thing if you had a Marine relative serving to protect that building.

Actions have consequences. Go complain to the idiots in our state department. It's John Kerry's fault.

 

[Vikrant]

There is an escalating diplomatic spat between India and the US that highlights a clash of pathologies of two political cultures. India's deputy consul-general in New York, 39-year-old Devyani Khobragade, a career diplomat, was arrested last Thursday for alleged fraudulent statements on the visa application for her Indian maid. According to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, consular officials may enjoy diplomatic immunity solely when performing official duties.
That The New York Times, supposedly the most influential liberal daily, failed to cover the news until it created an all-party furore in India (itself a rare occurrence) speaks graphically to the cultural and political insensitivity of Americans to others.
The persisting US belief in being uniquely virtuous and therefore exceptional means they believe that laws, rules and norms apply to and can be enforced on everyone else, but not themselves. One can only imagine the outrage and threats if US diplomats were subjected to such treatment. If all diplomats must scrupulously follow the law of the land in which they are posted, some US diplomats and partners could find themselves in prison under antiquated Indian law that criminalises homosexual acts, as Indian politicians pointed out on Tuesday.
A second US pathology is the attitude problem of some - mercifully not most - border officials handling customs and immigration. It would appear this extends to law enforcement officers. Arresting and publicly handcuffing, while she is dropping off her daughter at school, an accredited woman diplomat from a friendly country, strip-searching and putting her in prison alongside drug addicts and traffickers. Really, is this the mark of a civilised country? Was she a suspected people-trafficker with papers concealed on or in her body to be so traumatised? This is superpower arrogance and petty power mentality gone mad. National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon rightly described it as "despicable" and "barbaric''.
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A third is the tendency to subject suspects to public humiliation before they have been convicted of a crime. We saw this with the former IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn when he was arrested (and ultimately released without being formally charged) for molesting a hotel maid. The notion of innocent until proven guilty seems to be alien to justice department practices in some US jurisdictions.
Part of the explanation for this may be that the office of district attorney is the path to higher political office for many ambitious US prosecutors. So the politicisation of justice is the fourth US pathology.
Finally, some domestic staff in foreign embassies and consulates have discovered one possible route to seeking permanent residence is alleging mistreatment and claiming damages and asylum. According to the Indian embassy in Washington, the maid "absconded" from her employer in June and was the subject of an injunction issued by the High Court in Delhi, which US officials ignored.
India has its own set of pathologies. The first is the practice of maids brought from India, paid lower than prevailing wages and employed under tougher work conditions. The Indian foreign ministry response is twofold. Free housing and food top up the wages; and under Indian social practices, generally both employers and domestic staff prefer lifelong employment in one family's service as they move back and forth between Delhi and overseas postings. The few cases of abuse and exploitation have to be weighed against the many more of long-term mutual loyalty.
Second, Indians are not as scrupulous in filling out official forms with total veracity, in part because the forms can be unduly intrusive, sometimes contradictory, and often confusing and pointless. It can be tempting to write down whatever will produce the desired result with least fuss and trouble. The intention is not to commit fraud but to avoid red tape. The consequences of false statements in most developed Western countries can be quite serious.
Third, officers in the elite Indian services (especially the foreign, administrative and police services) are often lordly and overbearing in their dealings with ''ordinary'' citizens. This is the old colonial mentality of rulers and subjects. That sense of superiority translates into one of entitlement in being protected from the application of rules that govern the everyday behaviour of resentful citizens.
During a recent domestic flight in India, I was astonished to see displayed in public the full list of 31 (!) categories of people exempted from security checks. This often creates problems for Indian ''VIPs'' when travelling abroad. Recently the Supreme Court stepped in to restrict the expanding categories of officials entitled to flashing red beacon lights in traffic.
Fourth, the Indian government must be the most easily pushed around for a country of its size and status. The government is meek and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is meekness personified, reduced to pleading helplessness on anything and everything. Why has Singh not spoken out on this issue? Has he called the US President directly to convey the country's wrath? It is hard to imagine a Chinese diplomat being subjected to such humiliating and degrading treatment. It is not hard to imagine how the Chinese government would react if it did happen.
Much of the initial online comment focused on the second and third Indian pathologies to heap blame and abuse on Ms Khobragade. While understandable, this is wrong. Her individual identity is irrelevant. Her treatment is an unacceptable public insult to the state and nation of India. An apology would be too little. The individuals responsible should be punished - a rebuke will not be enough.
On Monday the parliamentary speaker, Meira Kumar, and the NSA cancelled their meetings with a visiting US Congressional delegation. Where was Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid's sense of national pride and shame in meeting them? Fortunately, on Tuesday Congress Party vice-president and heir apparent Rahul Gandhi, Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde and opposition BJP prime ministerial candidate Narendra Modi all declined to meet the delegation.
By the end of Tuesday an incensed foreign ministry had instituted a series of retaliatory measures: cancellation of airport passes for US diplomatic officials; salary and bank details of all Indian staff employed at all US missions, households and schools; return of all diplomatic ID cards by US consular officials; a halt to all import duty waivers, including for alcohol; and removal of all security barriers on public lands around the US embassy in New Delhi. As one headline put it, "Strip search finds India's spine.''


Read more: India stands tall after arrest

 

[Vikrant]

Pulling the barricades was the right thing to do. I was glad to see them do it so quickly. Now if they would just start those arrests of American violating India's anti sodomy laws it would be even better.

There are consequences to actions. Liberals will NEVER get this. They think that consequences only happen to other people, not to them and certainly not to Americans.

WTF? Haven't we just lost an ambassador and other personnel to political expediency? You wouldn't say such a thing if you had a Marine relative serving to protect that building.

Actions have consequences. Go complain to the idiots in our state department. It's John Kerry's fault.

The removal of concrete barricade which was on the public land and was blocking the traffic is not directly related to this incident. Washington just recently converted what was a parking lot exclusively for Indian embassy personnel into a public parking lot. Indians were not very happy about it. Then comes this arrest. So they had finally had enough with Obama administration.

 

[Katzndogz]

Vikrant set it out perfectly. Add only that America does not have the clout it used to and does not command any level of subservience.

 

[Vikrant]

India needs us more than we need them.

I agree, the authorities overreacted, but the treatment of this housekeeper was obscene and the diplomat lied on her application papers.

You say "India needs us more than we need them" as though it was an obvious truism. What is it, exactly, that you think India gets from the US? Certainly not security.

Trade, for starters.

Now, frankly, I would love to cut off trade with India, so when I call for customer service, I don't get Pradip passing himself off as "Bobby" and not understanding my problem after I've explained it to him SIX FUCKING TIMES. (Seriously, I had this experience lately with Google AdWords.)

But I still think strip-searching this lady was out of line.

Trade relations between India and the US is slightly in the favor of the US. Just in last five years India has bought billions of dollars of US products from companies like GE, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc. India had option of buying those items from other countries but it chose the US because it considered the US a friendly country. For some strange reason, the US media gives a distorted view that India is the only party benefiting from the trade between India and the US. That simply is not the case.

 

[Vikrant]

Vikrant set it out perfectly. Add only that America does not have the clout it used to and does not command any level of subservience.

I do not think it is about clout. India had been in much more intense situation with the US when it was much weaker.

Indians treat American diplomats and people in general very well. Here is a list of courtesies Indians have extended American diplomats posted in India:
- They are not required to go through airport security
- They have designated parking on Indian airports
- They are not charged tax on imports
- After 911, India was kind enough to let American embassy build a barricade on Indian public land to give extra layer of security to American embassy
- India gives immunity to all American diplomats many of them violate Indian laws left and right

In return, the US does not reciprocate on any of the above. Now India is rethinking its policy towards the US diplomats.

 

[Katzndogz]

And they should.

 

[Vikrant]

Check it out. The maid seems to have gotten her whole family over. What a scam!

Two days before Dr Khobragade’s arrest Richard’s husband and parents allegedly flew in to the States.


Revealed: Indian diplomat at center of furor after arrest for paying maid 'slave wage' called New York cops six months ago to claim she was being extorted by her for U.S. visa | Mail Online

The only criminals are Richard and her whole family. For scum like this the US will alienate India.

Excellent point!

 

[Vox]

The US acted so illegally that it defies understanding. I almost can't believe this kind of lawlessness.

agree.

if the maid feels she is paid too low - she can leave anytime she wants.

Does John Kerry know what diplomatic immunity is? Do the stupid cops or whatever dipshit approved this? If that diplomat had murdered the woman she couldn't be arrested.

the case is so appalling in all possible dimensions that it reminds me the stalinist era.

what the heck do these people think they are? somebody can accuse somebody else and because it is politically beneficial ( or thought so) they will just ram through anybody's right to the due process?

India should not only invoke hell in every international way possible, the woman should sue for very hefty millions for abuse and racial and gender discrimination( since the vast majority of Americans do not know that Indians are Caucasians this can be played as well).
Yes, this was clearly racist attack and also misogynistic

 

[Vikrant]

agree.

if the maid feels she is paid too low - she can leave anytime she wants.

Does John Kerry know what diplomatic immunity is? Do the stupid cops or whatever dipshit approved this? If that diplomat had murdered the woman she couldn't be arrested.

the case is so appalling in all possible dimensions that it reminds me the stalinist era.

what the heck do these people think they are? somebody can accuse somebody else and because it is politically beneficial ( or thought so) they will just ram through anybody's right to the due process?

India should not only invoke hell in every international way possible, the woman should sue for very hefty millions for abuse and racial and gender discrimination( since the vast majority of Americans do not know that Indians are Caucasians this can be played as well).
Yes, this was clearly racist attack and also misogynistic

It is against Indian law to strip search a woman. Any police officer who strip searches a woman in his custody will be committing what Indian law defines as custodial rape. It is considered very barbaric in India. I have a feeling current Indian administration will not survive the upcoming election because it is being accused by the opposition of turning India into a sidekick of the US.

 

[Vox]

Does John Kerry know what diplomatic immunity is? Do the stupid cops or whatever dipshit approved this? If that diplomat had murdered the woman she couldn't be arrested.

the case is so appalling in all possible dimensions that it reminds me the stalinist era.

what the heck do these people think they are? somebody can accuse somebody else and because it is politically beneficial ( or thought so) they will just ram through anybody's right to the due process?

India should not only invoke hell in every international way possible, the woman should sue for very hefty millions for abuse and racial and gender discrimination( since the vast majority of Americans do not know that Indians are Caucasians this can be played as well).
Yes, this was clearly racist attack and also misogynistic

It is against Indian law to strip search a woman. Any police officer who strip searches a woman in his custody will be committing what Indian law defines as custodial rape. It is considered very barbaric in India. I have a feeling current Indian administration will not survive the upcoming election because it is being accused by the opposition of turning India into a side kick of the US.

I would consider it is against the American law to strip search without a court warrant and a court warrant should not be issued on some bogus claims of a maid against law abiding citizen of another country which happens to be a diplomat.

And it clearly reminds the hysteria with the French guy and the hotel whore.

Plus it depicts the reality of law enforcement in this country recently - shoot then ask questions.

 

[Vox]

I've got this from the Daily Mail. The key is the second sentence. The diplomat would have had to committed a crime outside on an official job function.

As Deputy Consul General, Ms Khobragade enjoyed ‘consular immunity’ which is limited and related to her official duties.

Under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, consular officials can still be arrested for acts committed outside on official job functions


Revealed: Indian diplomat at center of furor after arrest for paying maid 'slave wage' called New York cops six months ago to claim she was being extorted by her for U.S. visa | Mail Online

And her charged crime IS outside her official duties.The US requires an affidavit be signed by all Foreign diplomats that bring in their own house hold staff. She signed it and swore it was true. She is charged with a crime dealing with illegally bringing someone to the States under false promises and failure to pay a required wage.

except she did not commit ANY crime

it is what the maid is claiming.

has there been any court ruling?

or the maid is simply lying since she did not get what she wanted?

 

[Vox]

Check it out. The maid seems to have gotten her whole family over. What a scam!

Two days before Dr Khobragade’s arrest Richard’s husband and parents allegedly flew in to the States.


Revealed: Indian diplomat at center of furor after arrest for paying maid 'slave wage' called New York cops six months ago to claim she was being extorted by her for U.S. visa | Mail Online

The only criminals are Richard and her whole family. For scum like this the US will alienate India.

Hasn't even been a trail yet and your hatred of Obama makes you make ridiculous claims you can not back up about other people.

Once again you dumb ass? Do you not believe the Government investigated the conflicting claims? Be specific, why would Our Government WANT to piss of India right now?

have there been a trial on the maid allegations, you dumb ass?

 

[Vikrant]

I've got this from the Daily Mail. The key is the second sentence. The diplomat would have had to committed a crime outside on an official job function.

As Deputy Consul General, Ms Khobragade enjoyed ‘consular immunity’ which is limited and related to her official duties.

Under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, consular officials can still be arrested for acts committed outside on official job functions


Revealed: Indian diplomat at center of furor after arrest for paying maid 'slave wage' called New York cops six months ago to claim she was being extorted by her for U.S. visa | Mail Online

And her charged crime IS outside her official duties.The US requires an affidavit be signed by all Foreign diplomats that bring in their own house hold staff. She signed it and swore it was true. She is charged with a crime dealing with illegally bringing someone to the States under false promises and failure to pay a required wage.

except she did not commit ANY crime

it is what the maid is claiming.

has there been any court ruling?

or the maid is simply lying since she did not get what she wanted?

There was a warrant issued against the maid for failing to appear in a New Delhi court to sort out extortion charges.

 

[Vox]

The caste system rules India....this woman's assistant is little more than a servant. The arabs are even worse...they OWN their help. India is "important" alright...they ignore the boycott and buy Iranian oil, they move troops to be ready to retaliate against Pakistan when al-Qaida needs to move some VIP over the Afghan border. They are exempt from the Kyoto Treaty. They just pulled the cement barriers in front of our embassy in New Delhi...an open invite to a car-bomber. This latest deal just shows they have nothing but contempt for the US even though we've off-shored almost every Fortune 500 company's customer service lines to them. FUCK EM WHATEVER is exactly the policy we should use. But Barry will probably send them a couple billion dollars and some free F-16s to smooth things over.

You do realize that they moved the barriers because the outrage of the Indian citizens reached extreme high over this absolute idiocy in handling the minor incident of the domestic help?

 

[Vox]

And her charged crime IS outside her official duties.The US requires an affidavit be signed by all Foreign diplomats that bring in their own house hold staff. She signed it and swore it was true. She is charged with a crime dealing with illegally bringing someone to the States under false promises and failure to pay a required wage.

except she did not commit ANY crime

it is what the maid is claiming.

has there been any court ruling?

or the maid is simply lying since she did not get what she wanted?

There was a warrant issued against the maid for failing to appear in a New Delhi court to sort out extortion charges.

against the maid, but it was not the maid who was strip-searched as if she is a Mexican illegal smuggling drugs into this country.

Oh, I beg you pardon, illegals are a protected class in this country as are criminal maids and are not being strip searched.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I've got this from the Daily Mail. The key is the second sentence. The diplomat would have had to committed a crime outside on an official job function.

As Deputy Consul General, Ms Khobragade enjoyed ‘consular immunity’ which is limited and related to her official duties.

Under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, consular officials can still be arrested for acts committed outside on official job functions


Revealed: Indian diplomat at center of furor after arrest for paying maid 'slave wage' called New York cops six months ago to claim she was being extorted by her for U.S. visa | Mail Online

And her charged crime IS outside her official duties.The US requires an affidavit be signed by all Foreign diplomats that bring in their own house hold staff. She signed it and swore it was true. She is charged with a crime dealing with illegally bringing someone to the States under false promises and failure to pay a required wage.

except she did not commit ANY crime

it is what the maid is claiming.

has there been any court ruling?

or the maid is simply lying since she did not get what she wanted?

Ok RETARD, do we hold a trial before or after we arrest someone for an alleged crime? I repeat the Government has been investigating for 6 months. And you are assuming they simply took the maids word for it. She reported the problem in JULY. No arrest was made until DECEMBER. The only people going off half cocked are you idiots that hate Obama so much you would accuse him of a crime if he wiped his ass with his other hand.

One can agree the strip search was beyond the pale, without assuming the cops made it all up.

And she is accused of committing a crime thus the arrest. She is accused of paying slave wages. Of lying on an official form about the specifics of payment and conditions she subjected the Maid too.

You now support slave conditions because you hate Obama?

 

[Vox]

And her charged crime IS outside her official duties.The US requires an affidavit be signed by all Foreign diplomats that bring in their own house hold staff. She signed it and swore it was true. She is charged with a crime dealing with illegally bringing someone to the States under false promises and failure to pay a required wage.

except she did not commit ANY crime

it is what the maid is claiming.

has there been any court ruling?

or the maid is simply lying since she did not get what she wanted?

Ok RETARD, do we hold a trial before or after we arrest someone for an alleged crime? I repeat the Government has been investigating for 6 months. And you are assuming they simply took the maids word for it. She reported the problem in JULY. No arrest was made until DECEMBER. The only people going off half cocked are you idiots that hate Obama so much you would accuse him of a crime if he wiped his ass with his other hand.

One can agree the strip search was beyond the pale, without assuming the cops made it all up.

And she is accused of committing a crime thus the arrest. She is accused of paying slave wages. Of lying on an official form about the specifics of payment and conditions she subjected the Maid too.

You now support slave conditions because you hate Obama?

you idiot fucktard, we don't strip search the innocent woman because some criminal is alleging she paid her lower wage than agreed. we don't even arrest for such a claim as it is not a dangerous offense to be prosecuted by arrest. It is a CIVIL lawsuit.

or, if we do - we have the deserved backlash.

btw 3.31$ per hour she counted for the time she was also sleeping and resting and taking shower or whatever doing for HERSELF - and not for the time she was factually WORKING.
If that is counted she had higher than Walmart workers hourly wage

but the ignorant defenders of our stupid government no matter the idiocy it performs have no idea what slavery actually is

 

[BullKurtz]

The caste system rules India....this woman's assistant is little more than a servant. The arabs are even worse...they OWN their help. India is "important" alright...they ignore the boycott and buy Iranian oil, they move troops to be ready to retaliate against Pakistan when al-Qaida needs to move some VIP over the Afghan border. They are exempt from the Kyoto Treaty. They just pulled the cement barriers in front of our embassy in New Delhi...an open invite to a car-bomber. This latest deal just shows they have nothing but contempt for the US even though we've off-shored almost every Fortune 500 company's customer service lines to them. FUCK EM WHATEVER is exactly the policy we should use. But Barry will probably send them a couple billion dollars and some free F-16s to smooth things over.

You do realize that they moved the barriers because the outrage of the Indian citizens reached extreme high over this absolute idiocy in handling the minor incident of the domestic help?

FUCK their "outrage"...removing security barriers over this bullshit is grounds for recalling our ambassador. I'd think the ease in which a terror cell operating out of Pakistan shot up an Indian hotel awhile back should ring a bell for you. Katz say's "actions have consequences" like it's fine with her if our embassy is car-bombed....talk about a mental-case.

This woman was arrested on a felony warrant. That means she should have been frisk seached for a weapon by a female officer before she was put in the patrol car. She then may or may not have been subjected to a more intimate search as part of normal processing, again in private, by a female corrections officer. They have every right to protect themselves and other inmates from a weapon or contraband being introduced inside custody.

The DA that issued the warrant is the one who is required to explain the charges he filed. Once a warrant was issued, protocol was followed. If the dot-heads don't like it, they can obey our laws instead of trying the "diplomatic immunity" crap. And taking down those barriers is some serious shit....if that embassy is attacked, we should demand whoever ordered it, to be extradited to the US to stand trial.