International Criminal Court opens preliminary investigation into attack on Mavi Marm

[P F Tinmore]

Your link, hasbara:

"This article is outdated. Please update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (November 2012)"

Idiot, this info shows up in many wiki pages if there is no new information. UN ruled the blockade legal. Unless you have a recent update to show that is no longer the case, put up or shut up!

The UN ruled the blockade was unlawful in the full report by the UN Human Rights Council Panel findings.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgaquz8rjkM]UN Gaza Flotilla Report Gravely Flawed - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Kondor3]

"Mister Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it." - urban legend, attributed to President Andrew Jackson

-----------------

I'm sure that the 1962 US Naval Blockade of Cuba was also illegal - but that didn't stop us from going through with it when we determined that it was strategically and tactically important for us to interdict weapons being shipped to the Castro government.

A blockade is a blockade.

It is an unfriendly act.

It is a military measure.

And if your government has determined that it has little choice but to undertake such a measure, it will, and so-called International Law and Opinion be damned.

The Israelis aren't the only ones to do this, and the impractical overreliance upon so-called International Law in the context of a hostile military measure that we see here is just plain laughable.

The Israelis learned all about the lack of backbone and the biases and the true uselessness and realities of much that passes for International Law the hard way, and now the same can be said of these activists.

These ships set sail with the pre-announced intention to run the blockade.

So the Israelis met them out at sea, where they could still sink them, if need be, rather than risking them successfully making a political statement by beaching themselves and beating the blockade at the cost of the ships themselves.

Good call on the Israeli's part... fine tactical thinking... just what was called for from the Israeli perspective.

If you don't want to be stopped and boarded, don't try to run the blockade.

And, once you've been hailed and ordered to stop your engines, stop your engines, and, for God's sake, don't let your manic activist-passengers throw stuff overboard at the boats containing the boarding parties, so that they begin shooting at your passengers to clear the railings and reduce the danger to themselves.

These 'Freedom Flotilla' idiots brought this on themselves.

The Israelis will tell the ICC to go pound sand, and I'll laugh when they do it.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

This is part of the UN Human Rights Councils report, two paragraphs addressing the unlawful blockade of Gaza. "53. In evaluating the evidence submitted to the Mission, including by OCHA oPt, confirming the severe humanitarian situation in Gaza, the destruction of the economy and the prevention of reconstruction (as detailed above), the Mission is satisfied that the blockade was inflicting disproportionate damage upon the civilian population in the Gaza strip and that as such the interception could not be justified and therefore has to be considered illegal.54. Moreover, the Mission emphasizes that according to article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, collective punishment of civilians under occupation is prohibited. “No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.” The Mission considers that one of the principal motives behind the imposition of the blockade was a desire to punish the people of the Gaza Strip for having elected Hamas. The combination of this motive and the effect of the restrictions on the Gaza Strip leave no doubt that Israel’s actions and policies amount to collective punishment as defined by international law. In this connection, the Mission supports the findings of the Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territories occupied since 1967, Richard Falk,45*the report of the United Nations Fact-Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict46*and most recently the ICRC47*that the blockade amounts to collective punishment in violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law." http://unispal.un.org/unispal.nsf/5...bffafa61f26ca7c0852577a8004b405b?OpenDocument

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, SherriMunnerlyn, Roudy, et al,

Just Remember.

Idiot, this info shows up in many wiki pages if there is no new information. UN ruled the blockade legal. Unless you have a recent update to show that is no longer the case, put up or shut up!

The UN ruled the blockade was unlawful in the full report by the UN Human Rights Council Panel findings.

UN Gaza Flotilla Report Gravely Flawed

(COMMENT)

It doesn't matter if it is illegal or not. Running guns to the terrorists is a risky business. Just looking like you are running guns to the terrorists is a risky business. Running a blockade, or resisting a boarding party is a risky affair. You pay your quarter and you take your chance.

Human Rights are one thing and reality is another. Anytime you have a State supported organization (HAMAS) who's Charter is all about the destruction of a sovereign state, and is openly conducting armed attacks against a state, reasonable precautions are to be expected. The blockade is reasonable.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

P F Tinmore, SherriMunnerlyn, Roudy, et al,

Just Remember.

The UN ruled the blockade was unlawful in the full report by the UN Human Rights Council Panel findings.

UN Gaza Flotilla Report Gravely Flawed

(COMMENT)

It doesn't matter if it is illegal or not. Running guns to the terrorists is a risky business. Just looking like you are running guns to the terrorists is a risky business. Running a blockade, or resisting a boarding party is a risky affair. You pay your quarter and you take your chance.

Human Rights are one thing and reality is another. Anytime you have a State supported organization (HAMAS) who's Charter is all about the destruction of a sovereign state, and is openly conducting armed attacks against a state, reasonable precautions are to be expected. The blockade is reasonable.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, SherriMunnerlyn, Roudy, et al,

Just Remember.

UN Gaza Flotilla Report Gravely Flawed

(COMMENT)

It doesn't matter if it is illegal or not. Running guns to the terrorists is a risky business. Just looking like you are running guns to the terrorists is a risky business. Running a blockade, or resisting a boarding party is a risky affair. You pay your quarter and you take your chance.

Human Rights are one thing and reality is another. Anytime you have a State supported organization (HAMAS) who's Charter is all about the destruction of a sovereign state, and is openly conducting armed attacks against a state, reasonable precautions are to be expected. The blockade is reasonable.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza.

Cement is contraband and is not allowed to be shipped to Gaza. All the other material was not in short supply in Gaaza and was not needed. All this has been brought up before.
Now, when the next blockade runners make a run for Gaza, they know what to expect.

 

[RoccoR]

SherriMunnerlyn, et al,

The Israelis don't know what's onboard until they check.

The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza.

(COMMENT)

If you act suspiciously, if you deal with adversaries, and if you are an unknown quantity, you're subject to the international version of "Terry Stop and Frisk."

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Kondor3]

"...The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza."

Doesn't matter one little bit.

Prior to June 2010 the joint Israeli-Egyptian Naval Blockade of Gaza was absolute.

That means guns, rockets, ammunition, cement, nails, hammers, saws, rice, water, model airplane glue, lady's knickers... whatever.

The activists of the so-called Freedom Flotilla knew this before they even began.

And they proceeded to try to run the blockade anyway - foolishly but intentionally.

----------

"Hi, I'm Israeli Naval Lieutenant Such-and-So, and I'll be your CONSEQUENCES this evening, dumb-asses."

 

[sealadaigh]

SherriMunnerlyn, et al,

The Israelis don't know what's onboard until they check.

The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza.

(COMMENT)

If you act suspiciously, if you deal with adversaries, and if you are an unknown quantity, you're subject to the international version of "Terry Stop and Frisk."

Most Respectfully,
R

get real...what kind of military rapels troops into a crowd of "militants" that they think are heavily armed. i mean, i don't hold the IDF in very high regard at all but do you actually think they are that stupid.

i think i will go with the original assessment of massacre. if the people on the boat had wanted to kill those clowns, it would be a piece of cake.

gotta winch?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Diakonia is an organization associated with The Intl Red Cross. In the article below, they address a number of reasons the Blockade is unlawful. Here is the first reason they address. "The naval and land blockade is illegal 1. The land and naval blockade does not serve a concrete and direct military advantage. According to the January 2011 report of the Israeli Turkel Committee that investigated the incidents around the May 2010 flotilla “[a]s evidenced by the testimonies that the Commission heard, the land crossings policy sought to achieve two goals: a security goal of preventing the entry of weapons, ammunition and military supplies into the Gaza Strip in order to reduce the Hamas’ attacks on Israel and its citizens; and a broader strategic goal of ‘indirect economic warfare’ whose purpose is to restrict the Hamas’ economic ability -as the body in control of the Gaza Strip- to take military action against Israel”.[4] A well established principle of the law of military occupation requires the occupier to respect a balance between its own military interests and the necessities of the occupied population. [5] This holds true also in the economic sphere, where the occupier must take into consideration the evolving needs of the Gazan population, including when imposing drastic economic measures such as a naval and land blockade. Finally, economic warfare cannot be applied in order to secure a “concrete and direct military advantage”, as set out in art. 102(b) of the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994 (hereinafter – San Remo Manual), which reflects customary international law. [6]" http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/2187/legal-brief_flotillas-and-the-gaza-blockade

 

[Hossfly]

"...The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza."

Doesn't matter one little bit.

Prior to June 2010 the joint Israeli-Egyptian Naval Blockade of Gaza was absolute.

That means guns, rockets, ammunition, cement, nails, hammers, saws, model airplane glue, lady's knickers... whatever.

The activists of the so-called Freedom Flotilla knew this before they even began.

And they proceeded anyway - foolishly but intentionally.

----------

"Hi, I'm Israeli Naval Lieutenant Such-and-So, and I'll be your CONSEQUENCES this evening."

THE Blockade is and was unlawful under intl law. What do you not understand about that?

If a country wants to impose a blockade, don't try to rub their nose in it. It'll get ye hoit.

 

[Kondor3]

"...THE Blockade is and was unlawful under intl law. What do you not understand about that?"

Oh, I understand that perfectly.

Your difficulty seems to lie in failing to grasp the reality that it doesn't matter whether it's illegal under International Law.

Nobody is going to ENFORCE International Law in this context.

The Hague will, no doubt, issue a judgment.

Given that the Israelis have not ratified the Rome Treaty ceding overriding criminal jurisdiction to the ICC...

The Israelis will tell the ICC to save their newly-written judgment for when they run out of toilet paper...

And much of the rest of the world will laugh (or at least snicker behind your backs) when they do it.

There... hope that helps.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

The attitude of Israel and her supporters that she can simply ignore intl.law with impunity is why BDS is growing. And it shall keep growing stronger, as the intl authorities ignore their obligations to uphold intl law in Israel/Palestine.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

What I am reading about the jurisdiction of the ICC is that the ICC investigates and tries cases of war crimes and crimes against humanity in countries that are unwilling or unable to prosecute them on their own, and this is often done at the request of ratifying states. The ICC does not have automatic jurisdiction over Israel as it is not a party to the treaty establishing the ICC, but lawyers from the Istanbul-based firm Elmadag argued that events should be considered as having taken place on the territory of Comoros, this is the flag the ship was flying, which is a member of the court, according to the news agency AP. So, conceivably the ICC may find they have jurisdiction.

 

[Roudy]

Idiot, this info shows up in many wiki pages if there is no new information. UN ruled the blockade legal. Unless you have a recent update to show that is no longer the case, put up or shut up!

The UN ruled the blockade was unlawful in the full report by the UN Human Rights Council Panel findings.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgaquz8rjkM]UN Gaza Flotilla Report Gravely Flawed - YouTube[/ame]

Well there ya have it, if you want a great "legal reference", what better than a stupid youtube propoganda clip? LOL

 

[Roudy]

The attitude of Israel and her supporters that she can simply ignore intl.law with impunity is why BDS is growing. And it shall keep growing stronger, as the intl authorities ignore their obligations to uphold intl law in Israel/Palestine.

Yeah, those BDSholes are going to show Israel and the world, aren't they?

Ha ha ha.

 

[Roudy]

What I am reading about the jurisdiction of the ICC is that the ICC investigates and tries cases of war crimes and crimes against humanity in countries that are unwilling or unable to prosecute them on their own, and this is often done at the request of ratifying states. The ICC does not have automatic jurisdiction over Israel as it is not a party to the treaty establishing the ICC, but lawyers from the Istanbul-based firm Elmadag argued that events should be considered as having taken place on the territory of Comoros, this is the flag the ship was flying, which is a member of the court, according to the news agency AP. So, conceivably the ICC may find they have jurisdiction.

Great! Wake us up when something important happens!

 

[Kondor3]

"...lawyers from the Istanbul-based firm Elmadag argued that events should be considered as having taken place on the territory of Comoros..."

Yer a funny guy, Mahmoud... I'm sure the Israelis will get a belly-laugh out of the idea, too...

 

[P F Tinmore]

SherriMunnerlyn, et al,

The Israelis don't know what's onboard until they check.

The Flotilla was not running guns to terrorists, they were carrying humanitarian assistance to Gaza, things like cement to rebuild what Israel destroyed in Gaza.

(COMMENT)

If you act suspiciously, if you deal with adversaries, and if you are an unknown quantity, you're subject to the international version of "Terry Stop and Frisk."

Most Respectfully,
R

The Israelis don't know what's onboard until they check.

Another Israeli lie. Israel knew for a fact that there were no weapons on board. Those boats were inspected at the ports of departure. (I would be very surprised if Mosad was not on the dock making a list.) Israel was told what was on those boats.

The flotilla offered to be inspection by international bodies like the UN or the Red Cross. Israel rejected this offer because they knew they were full of crap.