Iq tests mean nothing.

[Ernie S.]

Education in Mississippi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

African Americans and Education

Missionary groups in Northern Mississippi helped establish schools to educate African American youth. White supremacists realized the on-goings on such missionary groups and demanded to have control of the system, hoping to quell efforts to educate African Americans.[3]

The Constitution of 1868 did not include information on integrating public schools and it was determined by legislators that each individual school district to include integration or not. Superintendents of each county were told to divide the funds equally between white and black schools in the district, but equal rights was very uncommon and most of the funding was sent to white schools.[3]

Therefore, white schools were better constructed and were able to better serve the students academically. During the 1870s, education for blacks was further endangered as violence erupted in protest to educate African Americans. Also, the government cut greatly decreased funding for public schools and effectiveness of schools diminished.

State Superintendent J. R. Preston in 1886, created a revised education code that slowly raised standards in the classroom and teachers were then paid more in salaries than before and were required to take teacher licensing exams.

You are hardly worth wasting time on. Your words sound like English, but the way you put them together is very clumsy.
You go from current education standards to post civil war. Everyone accepts that there was inequatity in education in the South in 1870, but what happened nearly 150 years ago has no relation to today.
I was prepared to at least partially support your position, but the more I read from you, the more I see where Matthew may be right.

 

[DarkLion]

IQ measures certain things.

it does not capture the full range of human intelligence.


pretending it does shows that those who believe it is the only measure needed are not very bright

Hey now, don't go saying that!

My fragile ego needs to believe in the 147 I scored. Don't take that away from

 

[Ernie S.]

Ernie if that is the case, I could use Russia.

Russia has no bearing on US education.

 

[Meathead]

The link provided by the OP makes a very salient point. There are 16,000 school districts in the US, and in none of these do black students outperform whites. I cannot verify this independently, as that information is only exchanged in hushed tones for fear of upsetting the politically correct, but I find it very believable. If it were not the case, the exception would be shouted from the rooftops much like some poster who has "the smartest family in Britain is black!" in his sig,

You reach a point where the only venue left is to challenge the definition of intelligence, as has the OP. It is essentially a last-refuge on the question of intelligence. Having said that, it is ultimately the quality of life that people are able to provide for themselves and offspring which is poignant. This, more than the disparity in IQ, is tragic.

 

[malikc6]

Education in Mississippi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

African Americans and Education

Missionary groups in Northern Mississippi helped establish schools to educate African American youth. White supremacists realized the on-goings on such missionary groups and demanded to have control of the system, hoping to quell efforts to educate African Americans.[3]

The Constitution of 1868 did not include information on integrating public schools and it was determined by legislators that each individual school district to include integration or not. Superintendents of each county were told to divide the funds equally between white and black schools in the district, but equal rights was very uncommon and most of the funding was sent to white schools.[3]

Therefore, white schools were better constructed and were able to better serve the students academically. During the 1870s, education for blacks was further endangered as violence erupted in protest to educate African Americans. Also, the government cut greatly decreased funding for public schools and effectiveness of schools diminished.

State Superintendent J. R. Preston in 1886, created a revised education code that slowly raised standards in the classroom and teachers were then paid more in salaries than before and were required to take teacher licensing exams.

You are hardly worth wasting time on. Your words sound like English, but the way you put them together is very clumsy.


You go from current education standards to post civil war. Everyone accepts that there was inequatity in education in the South in 1870, but what happened nearly 150 years ago has no relation to today.
I was prepared to at least partially support your position, but the more I read from you, the more I see where Matthew may be right.

Ill admit I made a mistake with that relation in 1870. I honestly just got caught in the moment.

 

[Ernie S.]

The Mississippi argument is my counter argument for anyone who wants to talk crap about other countries and states within them. The point is the same. All actions come down to the individual. This is what leads to good things and bad things. On a small scale, to a larger scale.

Now you're not making sense at all. You claim success in education does not depend on the race of the individual, (I tend to agree, sort of. See post above.) and site Mississippi as your case in point claiming the state is mostly white. Of course it is mostly white. Whites are about 12% of the US population. Mississippi is over 37% black. Your whole argument is worthless.

FAIL.
Whites make 72.4% of the population actually. Blacks are 12.6% of the population.
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once again. Blacks are treated badly in Mississippi.

Fail? I already stated blacks "are about 12% of the population" 12.6 is hardly a fail. Blacks comprise 37.3% of the population of Mississippi.
Blacks are treated badly by other blacks all over, not just in Mississippi.
You do realize that a 20-30 year old black male is about 10 times as likely to be murdered as a 20 to 30 year old white male? You do realize that being black in a black neighborhood is the leading cause of death for black males 15-35 years of age?

 

[Ernie S.]

Education in Mississippi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

African Americans and Education

Missionary groups in Northern Mississippi helped establish schools to educate African American youth. White supremacists realized the on-goings on such missionary groups and demanded to have control of the system, hoping to quell efforts to educate African Americans.[3]

The Constitution of 1868 did not include information on integrating public schools and it was determined by legislators that each individual school district to include integration or not. Superintendents of each county were told to divide the funds equally between white and black schools in the district, but equal rights was very uncommon and most of the funding was sent to white schools.[3]

Therefore, white schools were better constructed and were able to better serve the students academically. During the 1870s, education for blacks was further endangered as violence erupted in protest to educate African Americans. Also, the government cut greatly decreased funding for public schools and effectiveness of schools diminished.

State Superintendent J. R. Preston in 1886, created a revised education code that slowly raised standards in the classroom and teachers were then paid more in salaries than before and were required to take teacher licensing exams.

You are hardly worth wasting time on. Your words sound like English, but the way you put them together is very clumsy.


You go from current education standards to post civil war. Everyone accepts that there was inequatity in education in the South in 1870, but what happened nearly 150 years ago has no relation to today.
I was prepared to at least partially support your position, but the more I read from you, the more I see where Matthew may be right.

Ill admit I made a mistake with that relation in 1870. I honestly just got caught in the moment.

Thanks for that honesty... Good night, sir.

 

[malikc6]

Now you're not making sense at all. You claim success in education does not depend on the race of the individual, (I tend to agree, sort of. See post above.) and site Mississippi as your case in point claiming the state is mostly white. Of course it is mostly white. Whites are about 12% of the US population. Mississippi is over 37% black. Your whole argument is worthless.

FAIL.
Whites make 72.4% of the population actually. Blacks are 12.6% of the population.
Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once again. Blacks are treated badly in Mississippi.

Fail? I already stated blacks "are about 12% of the population" 12.6 is hardly a fail. Blacks comprise 37.3% of the population of Mississippi.
Blacks are treated badly by other blacks all over, not just in Mississippi.
You do realize that a 20-30 year old black male is about 10 times as likely to be murdered as a 20 to 30 year old white male? You do realize that being black in a black neighborhood is the leading cause of death for black males 15-35 years of age?

Look at your post. You said whites make up 12% of US population. They make up much more of that.

In Mississippi, whites make up 58% of it.

 

[JQPublic1]

For example, in the United States, African born blacks and their offspring have been reported to exceed American born whites in several of the most cognitive socio-economic indicators – ‘the areas of educational attainment and occupational status’ -- in ways that are virtually identical to the gaps observed between native born white and black Americans (Nisbett, 2002; Charles, 2007; Le, 2007; Le, 2007; US Census Bureau, Census 2000. "5% Public Use Microdata Sample.").

It looks like some scientists do not agree with the Negrophobes lurking about.

 

[IanC]

There is probably a topic like this but Ill make another one anyway.

I have seen posts on here and on other sites about Iq tests and how non whites and non Asians don't do very well. Apparently blacks average 80 to 85. On stormfront, they use this fact to make it seem like Africans and African Americans are dumb and cannot manage through white societies.

This man even stated that there are intelligent differences in races. This is sad coming from a so called expert on this topic.
Race Differences in Intelligence - YouTube
If you watch the whole video, he mentions that Europeans that larger brains than Africans and that is what makes them smarter. I am no scientist, but I am pretty sure if brain size was the case, elephants and whales would dominate the earth. Saying that brain size matters pretty much destroyed this mans credibility.

Taylor is not an expert on intelligence, he is a white nationalist or whatever they are called. that said, he did a good job of explaining how different average intelligence levels affect and predict racial disparities.

malic6- you seem to think that brain size would not influence intelligence levels. why is that? the ratio of brain size to body size is highest in humans not elephants or whales, although those species are smarter than most other animals.

there is a small but positive correlation between hat size and intelligence. a stronger correlation between skull volume and intelligence. stronger still for brain size and intelligence. and a much stronger correlation if you measure the grey matter (seat of thought) rather than just overall size.

of course there are other brain characteristics that can be measured and taken into consideration. speed of signal conduction, integrity of signal conduction, density of neurons, etc.

could it be that bigger, faster brains are also more intelligent brains? experiments that test ECTs (elementary cognitive tasks) show that to be the case. one such test simply asks participants to press a button to turn off a randomly lit light. the usual asian, white, black hierarchy ensues although it is interesting that the task can be broken down into decision time (which button to push) and movement time (how long to push button once the decision is made). blacks actually have faster movement times but much slower decision times.

 

[IanC]

If IQ tests determine intelligence, I guess non whites are bad at just about everything I listed. Usually IQ tests are math and reading questions. I haven't seen too many of the intelligences Ive posted be tested. A white person who is great in math may get a horrible IQ score on a auditory IQ test.


What I really hate the most is, is that people seem to forget that intelligence can be increased over time and through practice. For example, I have Autism. Originally when I was very young, I couldn't interact with others very well. I was an outcast because of how I interacted with people. Over time and through persistence, I beat it. I am now in high school as a Junior 17 years of age, and have no problem cooperating with people or making friends. I could start a conversation with no effort just as easily as the so called "Normal person" can. I have a bit of Spatial intelligence, but mostly in chess. I can visualize several moves ahead and this is something that all chess players HAVE to develop. If they can't, you will never be a grandmaster.

I am not very bright when it comes to math (always get D's in Algebra and often spend a long time on just one problem) ,but I do excel in reading comprehension and reading in general.

People also seem to do better on stuff they enjoy rather than something they don't. In computer class, everyone is supposed to follow along with the teacher and almost all the time, I fall behind. I simply cannot catch up with everyone else. Almost everyday I need help how to get back up or when I cannot understand a simple direction, yet when at the chess club or playing or practicing chess in general, I could memorize entire games and get into perfect detail about what happened in the game and the mistakes and etc. When you like something, almost naturally your performance is going to be well.

People who rely on IQ tests seem to think that once you get your score, your stuck with that intelligence for life. My dad started off with a 90. His IQ now is 135! How? Because he increased his intelligence through practice. We are not animals with limited intelligence. Humans have the capacity to learn and comprehend regardless what race you are.

Regardless what race starts off more intelligent than the other, anyone can increase and there aren't too many people on this planet who have very high skills in all of the intelligences I have shown. The only way a person can do this is through practice which could take years for some people. No race can have all of that naturally with not much practice and skill.

...

Do you still think IQ tests matter? And if so, why?

intelligence, 'g', is an underlying factor in all human endeavours. if two atheletes, musicians or CEOs have the same natural talents, the smarter one will usually do better.

malic6 I dont think your personal story is very valid for the population at large because you have a behavioural/psychological condition that lead you to be classified as 'autistic'. likewise I find your anecdote about your father going from IQ90 to IQ135 to be preposterous without significant factors that you have left out. practice and familiarity with testing has a small and rapidly diminishing return on investment. eg. it is good to try a couple of practice SAT tests but doing a hundred is a waste of time because almost all the benefit came from the first exposure.

Chess is an odd game because people associate it with intelligence. dedication and practice are more important than intelligence although smart people can blaze through the initial learning curve more rapidly. and of course, like most things, at the top a little more intelligence is always a good thing. but an IQ100 individual could easily become a master at chess simply through practice and pattern recognition. if he didnt get bored to death first, lol

 

[yidnar]

they may not mean anything but they are pretty consistent ..my scores always fall into a 4 point difference in range......126 to 130.

 

[IanC]

For example, in the United States, African born blacks and their offspring have been reported to exceed American born whites in several of the most cognitive socio-economic indicators – ‘the areas of educational attainment and occupational status’ -- in ways that are virtually identical to the gaps observed between native born white and black Americans (Nisbett, 2002; Charles, 2007; Le, 2007; Le, 2007; US Census Bureau, Census 2000. "5% Public Use Microdata Sample.").

It looks like some scientists do not agree with the Negrophobes lurking about.

it is statistically unwise to measure self selected groups against average populations, especially when you are using a proxy for intelligence.

to a certain extent having a university degree is a gaurantee of at least a certain level of intelligence, depending on the major and institution. but lack of college education does not correspond to lack of intelligence in the same fashion. if you want to proof that African immigrants are smarter than whites simply give a representitive sample of them an IQ test. so dont leave out those Somali and Ethiopian refugees in Minnesota.

 

[IanC]

they may not mean anything but they are pretty consistent ..my scores always fall into a 4 point difference......126 to 130.

if you want to feel smart simply take a test that was normed in the 50s, 60s or 70s. or easier still take one of those pop up internet tests.

 

[JQPublic1]

The link provided by the OP makes a very salient point. There are 16,000 school districts in the US, and in none of these do black students outperform whites. I cannot verify this independently, as that information is only exchanged in hushed tones for fear of upsetting the politically correct, but I find it very believable. If it were not the case, the exception would be shouted from the rooftops much like some poster who has "the smartest family in Britain is black!" in his sig,

You reach a point where the only venue left is to challenge the definition of intelligence, as has the OP. It is essentially a last-refuge on the question of intelligence. Having said that, it is ultimately the quality of life that people are able to provide for themselves and offspring which is poignant. This, more than the disparity in IQ, is tragic.

You cannot verify a falsehood because it is not true. Black African immigrants and their children are outperforming even the Asians in academic achievement in America as well as the UK. Native born Blacks aren't doing as well but neither are many native born whites!

 

[yidnar]

they may not mean anything but they are pretty consistent ..my scores always fall into a 4 point difference......126 to 130.

if you want to feel smart simply take a test that was normed in the 50s, 60s or 70s. or easier still take one of those pop up internet tests.

not claiming to be brilliant ....one of the most intelligent people i have ever known couldn't read .

 

[JQPublic1]

For example, in the United States, African born blacks and their offspring have been reported to exceed American born whites in several of the most cognitive socio-economic indicators – ‘the areas of educational attainment and occupational status’ -- in ways that are virtually identical to the gaps observed between native born white and black Americans (Nisbett, 2002; Charles, 2007; Le, 2007; Le, 2007; US Census Bureau, Census 2000. "5% Public Use Microdata Sample.").

It looks like some scientists do not agree with the Negrophobes lurking about.

it is statistically unwise to measure self selected groups against average populations, especially when you are using a proxy for intelligence.

to a certain extent having a university degree is a gaurantee of at least a certain level of intelligence, depending on the major and institution. but lack of college education does not correspond to lack of intelligence in the same fashion. if you want to proof that African immigrants are smarter than whites simply give a representitive sample of them an IQ test. so dont leave out those Somali and Ethiopian refugees in Minnesota.

I won't leave out the Somali and Ethiopian refugees if you don't leave out the refugees from Vietnam and other Southeast Asian environs when the "Asians are smarter than Whites" canard ensues! Take your random samples of Asian intelligence from central China and tell me the results would be any different than those you are proposing for blacks. I think not! In fact the chinese samples would probably fare worse when compared to Black African Immigrants who matriculate. But lets not compare apples and oranges here as you propose. The Somali and Ethiopian refugees are not noted for attendance at Universities. They are trying to piece their lives back together after experiencing the pain of conflict. Lets take those random samples from actual enrollees, as apparently has been done, and keep it real!

 

[JQPublic1]

You are dead assed wrong. Mississippi is 37% black, or about 3 times the US average. It ranks #1 in percentage black population.

LINK

Mississippi White, not Hispanic Population Percentage by County

White alone. 58%. Still the majority and blacks are not treated very well there.

Yes sure. Whites outnumber blacks, even in Mississippi, but you used it as an example of a state with poor education results to try to support a claim. Your premise is blown out of the water.
Mississippi has the highest percentage of blacks (3x the national average) and deplorable education. Vermont has the second lowest percent black (less than 1%) population and is #2 in HS graduation rate. Both states are primarily rural with a lot of the population employed in agriculture.

Your assessment still doesn't take into account the observations of Ashley Montagu. He cited the 1917 study where Northern Blacks outscored Southern whites on !Q tests administered by the Army. Its all there on page 168 of Montagu's book: Man's Most Dangerous Myth: The Fallacy of Race!

Doesn't that fly in the face of your position? Malikc6 is spot on!

 

[IanC]

It looks like some scientists do not agree with the Negrophobes lurking about.

it is statistically unwise to measure self selected groups against average populations, especially when you are using a proxy for intelligence.

to a certain extent having a university degree is a gaurantee of at least a certain level of intelligence, depending on the major and institution. but lack of college education does not correspond to lack of intelligence in the same fashion. if you want to proof that African immigrants are smarter than whites simply give a representitive sample of them an IQ test. so dont leave out those Somali and Ethiopian refugees in Minnesota.

I won't leave out the Somali and Ethiopian refugees if you don't leave out the refugees from Vietnam and other Southeast Asian environs when the "Asians are smarter than Whites" canard ensues! Take your random samples of Asian intelligence from central China and tell me the results would be any different than those you are proposing for blacks. I think not! In fact the chinese samples would probably fare worse when compared to Black African Immigrants who matriculate. But lets not compare apples and oranges here as you propose. The Somali and Ethiopian refugees are not noted for attendance at Universities. They are trying to piece their lives back together after experiencing the pain of conflict. Lets take those random samples from actual enrollees, as apparently has been done, and keep it real!

I am trying to keep it real.

north korean adoption refugees from the famine years turned out to have high IQs even though they had poor prenatal and perinatal experiences. Hmong refugees, not so much.

you seem to be saying that a large fraction of black immigrants from Africa have university degrees and therefore are smarter than native whites. the French would disagree with you. I havent even seen compelling information there is a significant fraction that are educated. any links that I have chased down have been op-ed pieces or have disagreed with the statement. I have seen seen stats that show non-american blacks take up a significant portion of university spots but that is not really the same thing, is it?

 

[JQPublic1]

they may not mean anything but they are pretty consistent ..my scores always fall into a 4 point difference......126 to 130.

if you want to feel smart simply take a test that was normed in the 50s, 60s or 70s. or easier still take one of those pop up internet tests.

not claiming to be brilliant ....one of the most intelligent people i have ever known couldn't read .

Was he/she Black?