IRS to monitor church sermons now

[Clementine]

Apparently, the IRS now considers discussion of right to life and gay marriage as political involvement and I suppose churches can lose their tax-exempt status for talking about them.

Those issues are religious and they have a right to believe what they do. If they ever seek to harm people, that is where the line is drawn. I don't agree with them sometimes, but they have a right to their opinion, as I do.

I draw the line when religions encourage death and destruction to non-believers. Instead of having the IRS monitor churches for talking about issues, how about NSA and Homeland Security monitor some mosques for indications they are planning terrorist attacks? We know the Fort Hood shooter regularly attended services at a mosque run by a radical Imam. They minimized it to workplace violence and moved on. They were more worried that people might not support abortion in churches. The left is more concerned with people believing some issues are wrong than about radical Muslims actually killing people. We've seen it over and over as they reduce Muslim violence to protesters going amok to workplace violence. And the only worry they have is that people might offend them by condemning their actions.

When it comes to Christians, they are fair game. How many have been slaughtered by radical Muslims in other countries? That is a much bigger worry than whether to call the legal union of a gay couple a marriage or not. Some are just hung up on the word, "marriage", and it would probably be best to let that part of the argument go. As for right to life, they are no more right or wrong that so-called pro-choice. Both sides will disagree with the last statement, but my friends on the right disagree and still remain my friends. My ex-friends on the left saw it as a deal breaker and no longer speak to me. My liberal friends cannot abide by a person not believing as they do. It's a fact in my life and I've had 9 liberal friends 'unfriend' me on FB because I disagreed with some of their stances on issues. Zero tolerance on the left for dissention.

There is a war on Christians from the radical left and the evidence of that has piled up. Now the IRS is watching them while other tax-exempt groups continue to openly support liberal politicians.

I think the issues of gay marriage and abortion come down to personal choices. It's their business. And when it comes to abortion, it should be on the women to pay for it the way the rest of us pay for our own choices. Abortion is legal, but it's okay to protest it. Freedom of speech is a right and should never be messed with as long as it's not used to harm others. It's not okay to silence people using the strong arm of government.

Certain issues go against many religions and that's just the way it is. It's not something you can stop and you can't make legislation to force people to believe the way you do. Why can't the left ever agree to disagree and leave it at that? They won't rest till they make laws forcing people to remain silent on issues they don't agree with. Even some business owners are expected to attend re-training classes because they don't believe as the left does. Sorry, but people are entitled to their opinions and beliefs and if you don't agree, that's tough shit.

We see a lot of radical lefties that are left alone no matter how much anger and violence they incite or how many liberal candidates they endorse. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, Pastor Wright and their ilk made careers out of riling people into a angry frenzy by exaggerating issues. They aren't targeted by the IRS or other government agencies. It's crystal clear who they support politically, but their tax-exempt status is not threatened. Seems like it's only Christians and anyone on the right who is in their cross hairs. Using government agencies to carry out a secret agenda is about as corrupt as it gets. The left is okay with it only because they agree with the agenda. Their tune will change as soon as the election results are known.

Politics: IBD: IRS agrees to monitor church sermons to get atheists to stop complaining | Best of Cain

 

[bendog]

Umm, the right has for years raised complaints and the IRS has looked to activities in black churches, and the largest episcopal church spent millions in litigation against the IRS over having a guest sermon ask whether the Iraq was ... chrisitan. The IRS finally backed off, but didn't pay the church's legal bills.

 

[nodoginnafight]

THIS is why Jesus advocated the separation of Church and state.

It protects the Church far more than it protects the state.

 

[kiwiman127]

I noticed the OP's link was a second hand report of an article that didn't have links to back up it's story.
From the OP's link: "This one comes from Investors Business Daily, and their story has no links to other sources, so make of that what you will. But if this is true . . . wow:"
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/368567-irs-to-monitor-church-sermons-now.html
All I can say is hmmmmmm!

 

[nodoginnafight]

So how do determine if a church is really a Church and not a political organization looking for tax benefits they don't deserve?

Do we just have to take their word for it?

Can I open the "church of the doughnut shop" and be tax exempt?

 

[boedicca]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

Are Churches tax exempt on that post card?

 

[kiwiman127]

THIS is why Jesus advocated the separation of Church and state.

It protects the Church far more than it protects the state.

I'm pretty sure God never intended for His House of worship to be a political soapbox. The sole purpose of a church is to worship God/Jesus.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Watch. Negro churches allowing political speeches by democrats on Sunday morning services will continue to be overlooked by the ?IRS.

 

[LiberalMedia]

Watch. Negro churches allowing political speeches by democrats on Sunday morning services will continue to be overlooked by the ?IRS.

This could actually be legal under current laws.

More proof that this country is being run into the ground by conservatard bigots intent upon jamming their backwards religion down our secular humynyst throats.

 

[LiberalMedia]

THIS is why Jesus advocated the separation of Church and state.

It protects the Church far more than it protects the state.

I'm pretty sure God never intended for His House of worship to be a political soapbox. The sole purpose of a church is to worship God/Jesus.

Thys. The Jesus of the Bible (a fictional character in a fictional book, but I'll remind you of his fictional exploits nonetheless) actually railed against pyyple engaging in trade, gossip, and political activities in houses of worship, brandishing a whip and beating pyyple for conducting non-religious activities in religious buildings.

The fact that conservatards expressly advocate for their non-existent "ryght" to stump for Wrongpublican candidates and solicit financial support for conservatard causes while remaining completely tax-exempt reveals the absolute truth in the timeless quote, "The religious right is neither."

Religious nutjobs are nothing more than egotistical attention whores, desperate to leech more money from the legions of American sheeple who actually buy into the ridiculous assertion that an all-knowing, omniscient being exists and is watching our every move. These are the same pyyple, by the way, that rail against the NSA's alleged spying. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

 

[guno]

Apparently, the IRS now considers discussion of right to life and gay marriage as political involvement and I suppose churches can lose their tax-exempt status for talking about them.

Those issues are religious and they have a right to believe what they do. If they ever seek to harm people, that is where the line is drawn. I don't agree with them sometimes, but they have a right to their opinion, as I do.

I draw the line when religions encourage death and destruction to non-believers. Instead of having the IRS monitor churches for talking about issues, how about NSA and Homeland Security monitor some mosques for indications they are planning terrorist attacks? We know the Fort Hood shooter regularly attended services at a mosque run by a radical Imam. They minimized it to workplace violence and moved on. They were more worried that people might not support abortion in churches. The left is more concerned with people believing some issues are wrong than about radical Muslims actually killing people. We've seen it over and over as they reduce Muslim violence to protesters going amok to workplace violence. And the only worry they have is that people might offend them by condemning their actions.

When it comes to Christians, they are fair game. How many have been slaughtered by radical Muslims in other countries? That is a much bigger worry than whether to call the legal union of a gay couple a marriage or not. Some are just hung up on the word, "marriage", and it would probably be best to let that part of the argument go. As for right to life, they are no more right or wrong that so-called pro-choice. Both sides will disagree with the last statement, but my friends on the right disagree and still remain my friends. My ex-friends on the left saw it as a deal breaker and no longer speak to me. My liberal friends cannot abide by a person not believing as they do. It's a fact in my life and I've had 9 liberal friends 'unfriend' me on FB because I disagreed with some of their stances on issues. Zero tolerance on the left for dissention.

There is a war on Christians from the radical left and the evidence of that has piled up. Now the IRS is watching them while other tax-exempt groups continue to openly support liberal politicians.

I think the issues of gay marriage and abortion come down to personal choices. It's their business. And when it comes to abortion, it should be on the women to pay for it the way the rest of us pay for our own choices. Abortion is legal, but it's okay to protest it. Freedom of speech is a right and should never be messed with as long as it's not used to harm others. It's not okay to silence people using the strong arm of government.

Certain issues go against many religions and that's just the way it is. It's not something you can stop and you can't make legislation to force people to believe the way you do. Why can't the left ever agree to disagree and leave it at that? They won't rest till they make laws forcing people to remain silent on issues they don't agree with. Even some business owners are expected to attend re-training classes because they don't believe as the left does. Sorry, but people are entitled to their opinions and beliefs and if you don't agree, that's tough shit.

We see a lot of radical lefties that are left alone no matter how much anger and violence they incite or how many liberal candidates they endorse. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, Pastor Wright and their ilk made careers out of riling people into a angry frenzy by exaggerating issues. They aren't targeted by the IRS or other government agencies. It's crystal clear who they support politically, but their tax-exempt status is not threatened. Seems like it's only Christians and anyone on the right who is in their cross hairs. Using government agencies to carry out a secret agenda is about as corrupt as it gets. The left is okay with it only because they agree with the agenda. Their tune will change as soon as the election results are known.

Politics: IBD: IRS agrees to monitor church sermons to get atheists to stop complaining | Best of Cain

Great idea! we should sit in and take notes on sunday at the rightwing churches , even video it with the I phone an send it along to the IRS if necessary

 

[LiberalMedia]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

So you too want to end the free ride given to churches, and want them to be subject to taxation?

 

[boedicca]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

Are Churches tax exempt on that post card?

Yes, just as charities are. The members of a church already pay income taxes. If they wish to tithe some of their income to a church, the government has already taken its share.

 

[LiberalMedia]

So how do determine if a church is really a Church and not a political organization looking for tax benefits they don't deserve?

Do we just have to take their word for it?

Can I open the "church of the doughnut shop" and be tax exempt?

The IRS already conducts vigorous screening of tax-exempt organizations.

Unfortunately, their ability to screen is being crippled by the ongoing Congressional attack on the division responsible for said screenings; it's the one that Lois Lyrnyr was in charge of.

 

[boedicca]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

So you too want to end the free ride given to churches, and want them to be subject to taxation?

That's rather a "have you stopped beating your wife" type of question.

I disagree with your premise that churches have a free ride. They are non-profit / charities, and shouldn't be singled out for "special taxes".

If you wish to tax charities and non-profits, then go ahead and make the case for it.

 

[boedicca]

So how do determine if a church is really a Church and not a political organization looking for tax benefits they don't deserve?

Do we just have to take their word for it?

Can I open the "church of the doughnut shop" and be tax exempt?

The IRS already conducts vigorous screening of tax-exempt organizations.

Unfortunately, their ability to screen is being crippled by the ongoing Congressional attack on the division responsible for said screenings; it's the one that Lois Lyrnyr was in charge of.

Translation: The IRS conducts vigorous screenings of those who oppose Big Government.

Anyone who supports such politicization should give a bit of thought to giving that weapon to those they oppose. The shoe can easily be on the other foot.

 

[LiberalMedia]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

Are Churches tax exempt on that post card?

Yes, just as charities are. The members of a church already pay income taxes. If they wish to tithe some of their income to a church, the government has already taken its share.

So when the church pays its preacher, the preacher doesn't need to pay any income tax, because his income comes from people who have already paid taxes on their income?

And when the preacher buys groceries with his money, he doesn't need to pay sales taxes, because "the government has already taken its share"?

And when that grocery store needs to send in its own tax post card, it can exclude the income it gained from the preacher, because "the government has already taken its share" of the money the preacher spent?

And when every bagger, cashier, stocker, etc. at that grocery store send in their tax post cards, they don't need to report any income at all, because "the government has already taken its share" of the money the store paid them with, because it ultimately came from pyyple who had already paid taxes on that money?

How far does your ridiculous "hurr durr already paid muh taxes" scheme go?

 

[LiberalMedia]

Yet another reason to go with a flat tax with a simple personal deduction which can be filed on a postcard, and getting rid of the IRS.

So you too want to end the free ride given to churches, and want them to be subject to taxation?

That's rather a "have you stopped beating your wife" type of question.

I disagree with your premise that churches have a free ride. They are non-profit / charities, and shouldn't be singled out for "special taxes".

If you wish to tax charities and non-profits, then go ahead and make the case for it.

Churches and charities shouldn't be singled out for special tax breaks, which they're currently receiving. The case for taxing them lies in the symple fact that they are business entities just like any other; they take in money, they spend it, and most of them pay their employees. There is literally no reason to not tax them.

 

[boedicca]

Are Churches tax exempt on that post card?

Yes, just as charities are. The members of a church already pay income taxes. If they wish to tithe some of their income to a church, the government has already taken its share.

So when the church pays its preacher, the preacher doesn't need to pay any income tax, because his income comes from people who have already paid taxes on their income?

And when the preacher buys groceries with his money, he doesn't need to pay sales taxes, because "the government has already taken its share"?

And when that grocery store needs to send in its own tax post card, it can exclude the income it gained from the preacher, because "the government has already taken its share" of the money the preacher spent?

And when every bagger, cashier, stocker, etc. at that grocery store send in their tax post cards, they don't need to report any income at all, because "the government has already taken its share" of the money the store paid them with, because it ultimately came from pyyple who had already paid taxes on that money?

How far does your ridiculous "hurr durr already paid muh taxes" scheme go?

That's not even remotely what I said.

Personal income taxes on the employees of a church are not taxing any net surplus/reserves of a church after expenses.