Is a Constitutional Crisis on the way?

[Derideo_Te]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Ok, everyone pay attention:

this lawsuit is a good thing for the country. It will establish presidential limits of power for FUTURE presidents. There is zero chance that the court will rule that any of obama's unconstitutional acts must be overturned, so forget about that, even though that is what should happen---it won't.

But future presidents will risk real impeachment if they go beyond the limits established by this suit, and it will apply to presidents from both parties.

It is a good thing for the USA, forget the partisan bullshit for a while and let this move forward.

Obama hasn't done any "unconstitutional acts" so there is nothing to litigate.

Just another Tea Party inspired waste of taxpayer dollars.

 

[Statistikhengst]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

Severly.

Plus, a party platform that makes 1863 look like a party.

 

[Redfish]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

in truth, there is no coherent voice of reason on the left either. Who do you consider a voice or reason on the left------------obama oprah pelosi reid maher biden matthews HRC bubba clinton weiner wasserman schultz whoopi baldwin

face it, you have no one who passes a sanity test.

 

[Redfish]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

Severly.

Plus, a party platform that makes 1863 look like a party.

Yeah, right, a platform that includes the following is really weird
balanced budgets
debt reduction
constitutional government
sane foreign policy
lower taxes for everyone
sane fiscal policy
individual freedom
equality for all americans
no discrimination against any americans for any reason
sound borders
enforcing immigration laws.

yeah, and since the dem party is against all of those things--------------

you need to stop buying the dem party bullshit and talking points---THEY ARE LYING TO YOU, OBAMA IS LYING TO YOU, CLINTON IS LYING TO YOU.

 

[LoneLaugher]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

in truth, there is no coherent voice of reason on the left either. Who do you consider a voice or reason on the left------------obama oprah pelosi reid maher biden matthews HRC bubba clinton weiner wasserman schultz whoopi baldwin

face it, you have no one who passes a sanity test.

Whoa! A demon lineup! You sure you didn't miss any?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The answer is that the passage of Amendments, laws, and SCOTUS opinions have changed the context of the role of the 9th and 10th in modern society. They do not, and never will again, operate as a check against the national government as the far right wished they would. States Rights is very, very limited now, not the federal government.

So you are confirming that we are indeed living in a post-constitutional America. Madison said the powers of the feds were few and defined and those of the States were vast. Just the opposite of what you just described, and you appear to be fine with it, how pathetic are you, you fucking loser.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as a 'post-Constitution America,' the Constitution is functioning today as it always has, in accordance with the original intent of the Framers.

The Framers were not of one mind with regard to many issues of their day, and they often changed their positions over time concerning various issues. In addition, one member of the Founding Generation did not speak for all, nor would he be representative of all, or possess the sole authority to determine the meaning of the Constitution.

This is why it's important to understand that the Constitution exists only in the context of its case law, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, authorized by the Constitution in Articles III and VI as well as the doctrine of judicial review.

It was the intent of the American people who created the Constitution that their National government be supreme, that the Federal Constitution be supreme, and acts of Congress be supreme, with Federal laws and the rulings of Federal courts superior to that of the states and local jurisdictions (Cooper v. Aaron (1958)).

And it was the intent of the Founding Generation that the Constitution affords Congress powers both expressed and implied, where the states may not interfere with the relationship between the people and their National government, and that the courts determine when Congress has acted in accordance with the Constitution, and when it has not ( McCulloch v. Maryland (1819)).

The Constitution affords and guarantees the states their own rights and privileges immune from Federal overreach; but the people who reside within the states are first and foremost citizens of the United States, where their civil liberties as American citizens are paramount and cannot be violated by the states, and are safeguarded by the Federal Constitution and its case law.

 

[House]

Look at that mention list! You have all the cool people ( and their clones, apparently) on your side.

Which one am I?

 

[Derideo_Te]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

in truth, there is no coherent voice of reason on the left either. Who do you consider a voice or reason on the left------------obama oprah pelosi reid maher biden matthews HRC bubba clinton weiner wasserman schultz whoopi baldwin

face it, you have no one who passes a sanity test.

Paul Krugman is the economic voice of reason on the left.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

in truth, there is no coherent voice of reason on the left either. Who do you consider a voice or reason on the left------------obama oprah pelosi reid maher biden matthews HRC bubba clinton weiner wasserman schultz whoopi baldwin

face it, you have no one who passes a sanity test.

Paul Krugman is the economic voice of reason on the left.

I'm pretty sure that I could name a few very influential people on the left who Simplefish doesn't even know exist.

 

[MaxGrit]

This doesn't make any sense.

Neither the president nor the Supreme Court 'amended' any laws.

It is both necessary and appropriate for administrative and regulatory entities to infer the intent of Congress when implementing the policies authorized by acts of Congress.

Indeed, Congress writes its laws with the full understanding and intent that administrators and regulators will develop the details and specifics of actual implementation.

And when corporations or private citizens perceive a regulatory agency's implementation as contrary to Congress' intent, they are at liberty to file suit in Federal court to challenge the policy.

When the Supreme Court determines that a regulatory agency is implementing policy as intended by Congress, that decision in no way 'amends' existing law – it's ignorant and ridiculous to maintain otherwise.

Really, how did a penalty written into the law and held unconstitutional, suddenly become a TAX without further congressional action?

You're still not making any sense.

Presidents, regulatory agencies, and the Supreme Court do not and cannot write, amend, or change laws.

You may perceive that as being the case but as a fact of law it is not.

If you have the name and number of a bill that was written and passed into law by a regulatory agency, for example, feel free to cite it.

Minimalistic view of the current USA government.

Good Reading Material

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...of-powers-means-for-constitutional-government

 

[Derideo_Te]

in truth, there is no coherent voice of reason on the left either. Who do you consider a voice or reason on the left------------obama oprah pelosi reid maher biden matthews HRC bubba clinton weiner wasserman schultz whoopi baldwin

face it, you have no one who passes a sanity test.

Paul Krugman is the economic voice of reason on the left.

I'm pretty sure that I could name a few very influential people on the left who Simplefish doesn't even know exist.

So could I but I wasn't going to give him that opening. Let him try and shout down Krugman who has been consistently right when it comes to the economy.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The answer is that the passage of Amendments, laws, and SCOTUS opinions have changed the context of the role of the 9th and 10th in modern society.

That's the question, not the answer. That's what some of us are rejecting.

Quit slicing, leaving in the name of the quoter, and then taking the comment out of context.

Here is the full post, which easily answers your question. You don't like the answer, which is your problem, not mine

The answer is that the passage of Amendments, laws, and SCOTUS opinions have changed the context of the role of the 9th and 10th in modern society. They do not, and never will again, operate as a check against the national government as the far right wished they would. States Rights is very, very limited now, not the federal government.
__________________

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

True.

But there are those on the reactionary right who want to go backwards to a Constitutional version of living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets.

 

[MaxGrit]

The answer is that the passage of Amendments, laws, and SCOTUS opinions have changed the context of the role of the 9th and 10th in modern society. They do not, and never will again, operate as a check against the national government as the far right wished they would. States Rights is very, very limited now, not the federal government.

So you are confirming that we are indeed living in a post-constitutional America. Madison said the powers of the feds were few and defined and those of the States were vast. Just the opposite of what you just described, and you appear to be fine with it, how pathetic are you, you fucking loser.

Nonsense.

There is no such thing as a 'post-Constitution America,' the Constitution is functioning today as it always has, in accordance with the original intent of the Framers.

The Framers were not of one mind with regard to many issues of their day, and they often changed their positions over time concerning various issues. In addition, one member of the Founding Generation did not speak for all, nor would he be representative of all, or possess the sole authority to determine the meaning of the Constitution.

This is why it's important to understand that the Constitution exists only in the context of its case law, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, authorized by the Constitution in Articles III and VI as well as the doctrine of judicial review.

It was the intent of the American people who created the Constitution that their National government be supreme, that the Federal Constitution be supreme, and acts of Congress be supreme, with Federal laws and the rulings of Federal courts superior to that of the states and local jurisdictions (Cooper v. Aaron (1958)).

And it was the intent of the Founding Generation that the Constitution affords Congress powers both expressed and implied, where the states may not interfere with the relationship between the people and their National government, and that the courts determine when Congress has acted in accordance with the Constitution, and when it has not ( McCulloch v. Maryland (1819)).

The Constitution affords and guarantees the states their own rights and privileges immune from Federal overreach; but the people who reside within the states are first and foremost citizens of the United States, where their civil liberties as American citizens are paramount and cannot be violated by the states, and are safeguarded by the Federal Constitution and its case law.

Buy the book, Original Intent by David Barton, and read it for pleasure. It is a great book, goes through history, using original sources within context of time when it was written.

 

[Derideo_Te]

OKTexas, dlblack, and others go, "wah, we don't like this."

No one cares.

Obviously no one wants to go backwards to living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets so that is a non starter.

As far as clear articulation of where genuine conservatives stand that disappeared when Bill Buckley shuffled off this mortal coil.

There hasn't been anyone who can provide the kind of analysis and insight on the right ever since.

Now we have the likes of Limbaugh, Beck and Palin who combined couldn't come up with a rational feasible plan for a better future for We the People.

The lack of a coherent voice of reason on the right is hurting the nation in my opinion.

True.

But there are those on the reactionary right who want to go backwards to a Constitutional version of living in mud floored huts with outdoor toilets.

They have lost that fight every single time they have tried it. What is it with slow learners? Don't they understand the lessons of history?

 

[Richard-H]

This law suit, in and of itself doesn't matter. One of three things will happen:
1. SCOTUS will refuse to hear it
2. SCOTUS will find in favor of the President
3. SCOTUS will find in favor of Boehner

If SCOTUS finds in favor of Boehner, then the President will apologize and make some token gesture of conforming to the courts decisions.

What really matters is the outcome of the next congressional elections:

If there is a Republicans victory by a wide enough margin, they will impeach the President and remove him from office - no matter what. Having this law suit succeed will be just one more excuse for a legislative coup. But it won't matter - they'll go ahead with impeachment one way or another.

 

[LeftofLeft]

If there is, which Party takes the "never let a crisis go to waste" position?

 

[dblack]

...

Your post was not an 'answer' to the question of whether we are facing potential Constitutional crisis. All you did was state how things are, and claim they won't change. Which is pretty much all you ever do. But like it or not, things do change.

 

[Derideo_Te]

This law suit, in and of itself doesn't matter. One of three things will happen:
1. SCOTUS will refuse to hear it
2. SCOTUS will find in favor of the President
3. SCOTUS will find in favor of Boehner

If SCOTUS finds in favor of Boehner, then the President will apologize and make some token gesture of conforming to the courts decisions.

What really matters is the outcome of the next congressional elections:

If there is a Republicans victory by a wide enough margin, they will impeach the President and remove him from office - no matter what. Having this law suit succeed will be just one more excuse for a legislative coup. But it won't matter - they'll go ahead with impeachment one way or another.

The case cannot be litigated while Obama is in office so none of your 3 scenarios apply.

Right now the outcome of the 2014 election is hanging by a thread. That wasn't the case a year ago. How did it go from being a slam dunk takeover of the Senate to a nail biter 3 months out?