Is health care a right? Is free speech a right? What is a right?

[Kosh]

No one would be 'buying' it. You'd be paying taxes toward the system.

Given the economy we're in now, who would willingly do such a thing? Also, you're right, people wouldn't be buying a plan, they would be coerced into one by their government. That's wrong.

Given the economy, who would let people go without insurance because they can't afford it?

Those that voted for Obama and support the far left.

The homeless will not have insurance and more are becoming homeless due to the far left.

 

[auditor0007]

There is a right to health care the same way there is a right to a pastrami sandwich. What you don't have is the right to make someone else buy your health care.

As a society, we as a whole, choose what will be paid for by all of society for all of society. We made the decision to fund public education for all, so we can choose to do the same for healthcare. It is just a matter of what we choose. So basically, if the vast majority decide that it is in the best interest of our entire society for you to help pay the cost of healthcare for others, than it shall be.

 

[Listening]

Which punishes those that can not afford it, like the poor.

It doesn't punish the poor as the poor don't pay taxes.

If they can not afford Obamacare they will be paying a tax.

I don't think she understands Obamacare.

 

[Listening]

There is a right to health care the same way there is a right to a pastrami sandwich. What you don't have is the right to make someone else buy your health care.

As a society, we as a whole, choose what will be paid for by all of society for all of society. We made the decision to fund public education for all, so we can choose to do the same for healthcare. It is just a matter of what we choose. So basically, if the vast majority decide that it is in the best interest of our entire society for you to help pay the cost of healthcare for others, than it shall be.

Even if our Affirmative Action President has to lie his ass off at every turn to get people to support him.

 

[Kosh]

It doesn't punish the poor as the poor don't pay taxes.

If they can not afford Obamacare they will be paying a tax.

I don't think she understands Obamacare.

Guess they had to pass it to find out what is in it, right?

 

[Listening]

If they can not afford Obamacare they will be paying a tax.

I don't think she understands Obamacare.

Guess they had to pass it to find out what is in it, right?

So true.

Now, everyone is going to find out what's in it as we all get our plans canceled because they are "crap" even though we like them (makes us to stupid to know any better and only justifies our leader in taking over our lives for us....never mind he can't spend ten times the money he needed for a website...that still won't work...but we are to stupid to know what we need).

If the feds wanted to make money to close the deficit, they should sell toilet paper with his image on it.

 

[dblack]

A lot of people like to argue against the ACA by claiming that health care is not a right.

Declaring whether something is a right or not is bull.

People are only entitled to rights that those in power allow them to have.

Congress and the president could pass a law outlawing free speech after impeaching all of the Supreme Court and replacing them with rubber stamp puppet heads who would rule that outlawing free speech rights was constitutional.

Then, the people would not have the right to free speech.

A right is a legal invention that doesn't really mean anything because all laws are excuses that people in power use to control people who are not in power.

So, if it is true that health care is not a right, than it's legally justifiable to watch people who can't afford it drop dead when they could be cured...but that doesn't make it right whether it's a "right" or not.

In other words people who say health care is not a right, just need to sit down and shut up.

Rights are freedoms. We create government to protect freedoms. When we say we "have" a right to do something, in the context of government or the Constitution, what we're really saying is that government should protect that freedom as a right.

The argument over whether rights are 'god-given' or made up by man is a stupid one, and in my view both sides (usually) get it wrong. The existence of a given right is a by-product of free will, the ability to think and act on your own volition. But whether a given right is protected by law is a decision made by government, in the case of the US via representative democracy.

Government protects our 'rights' by making laws discouraging and/or preventing others from violating our rights. The only way our rights can be violated is if someone prevents us from exercising a freedom. If no one is preventing you from acting, your rights aren't being violated.

Maybe that clarifies why health care isn't a right. It isn't a question of who decides. It's just that health care isn't a freedom. It's service. You could, conceivably, define the freedom to take care of your own health as a right. You could also, conceivably, define the freedom to force someone else to provide with health care as a right. But in general, our Constitution or laws don't protect our right to coerce others in that way.

In my view, the attempt to define goods and services as rights is deliberate sophistry by those who want to use government to bully others into giving them what they want.

 

[Polk]

Health care is not a right, but it's nonsense to feel like that settles the question. Roads aren't a right either, but no one is suggesting the government stop building them.

 

[Polk]

5 Million people have lost their right to their existing coverage and counting.

Millions are being charged more for insurance as a result of Obamacare.

Millions are being reduced to part time employees as a result of Obamacare.

Where is that concern about Rights as Millions of Americans are punished by the new law............

This is just another angle on how to defend a Idiotic law that is causing damage all across America. The people don't like the law, and it's not about the will of the people. It needs to be shredded.

And BTW, forcing to buy insurance from Insurance Companies isn't necessarily Health Care.

It's Statist TYRANNY.

You should send Congressman Ryan a memo on that topic, since it's the primary feature of his proposals for changing both Social Security and Medicare.

 

[Polk]

Beside being ridiculously expensive and cruel, our present ''system'' is incredibly STUPID. This is mindless obstruction...Hater dupes...

And guess what Franco, you twerp? Expensive because those YOU support made it that way.

If your logic were correct, other developed nations would have higher per capita costs and/or worse results (since they follow something closer to his preferred model). But notice that they don't...

 

[Polk]

There is a right to health care the same way there is a right to a pastrami sandwich. What you don't have is the right to make someone else buy your health care.

As a society, we as a whole, choose what will be paid for by all of society for all of society. We made the decision to fund public education for all, so we can choose to do the same for healthcare. It is just a matter of what we choose. So basically, if the vast majority decide that it is in the best interest of our entire society for you to help pay the cost of healthcare for others, than it shall be.

Wholeheartedly agree.

 

[auditor0007]

There is a right to health care the same way there is a right to a pastrami sandwich. What you don't have is the right to make someone else buy your health care.

As a society, we as a whole, choose what will be paid for by all of society for all of society. We made the decision to fund public education for all, so we can choose to do the same for healthcare. It is just a matter of what we choose. So basically, if the vast majority decide that it is in the best interest of our entire society for you to help pay the cost of healthcare for others, than it shall be.

Even if our Affirmative Action President has to lie his ass off at every turn to get people to support him.

My statement has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. It's a statement based on fact; societies make choices. Healthcare is one of those things that we could decide to make available for everyone. Whether that ever truly happens remains to be seen.

 

[Kosh]

Beside being ridiculously expensive and cruel, our present ''system'' is incredibly STUPID. This is mindless obstruction...Hater dupes...

And guess what Franco, you twerp? Expensive because those YOU support made it that way.

If your logic were correct, other developed nations would have higher per capita costs and/or worse results (since they follow something closer to his preferred model). But notice that they don't...

Naw! Just one of the reasons why so many European nations are broke.

Guess some of the far left does not get out much and only reads propaganda.

 

[Kosh]

I don't think she understands Obamacare.

Guess they had to pass it to find out what is in it, right?

So true.

Now, everyone is going to find out what's in it as we all get our plans canceled because they are "crap" even though we like them (makes us to stupid to know any better and only justifies our leader in taking over our lives for us....never mind he can't spend ten times the money he needed for a website...that still won't work...but we are to stupid to know what we need).

If the feds wanted to make money to close the deficit, they should sell toilet paper with his image on it.

The US has a spending problem, no matter how much comes in it will never be enough.

Of course there are many here that believe voting for president is a right.

 

[Katzndogz]

And if 300 million people decide not to pay for the health care of 30 million people what happens to the majority agree part?

 

[dblack]

Health care is not a right, but it's nonsense to feel like that settles the question. Roads aren't a right either, but no one is suggesting the government stop building them.

Exactly. Saying health care isn't a right, doesn't mean government can't provide it as a service. It merely means it doesn't fall under government's express purpose of protecting our rights. Whether we think government should have the power to provide health care, or health insurance, depends on our reading of the Constitution.

In the case of ACA, whether health care is a right is irrelevant, as the Court has decided that government has the power to use the tax code to force us to buy products from their corporate sponsors. The right in question is the right to refuse to buy a product or service you don't want.

 

[Polk]

Health care is not a right, but it's nonsense to feel like that settles the question. Roads aren't a right either, but no one is suggesting the government stop building them.

Exactly. Saying health care isn't a right, doesn't mean government can't provide it as a service. It merely means it doesn't fall under government's express purpose of protecting our rights. Whether we think government should have the power to provide health care, or health insurance, depends on our reading of the Constitution.

In the case of ACA, whether health care is a right is irrelevant, as the Court has decided that government has the power to use the tax code to force us to buy products from their corporate sponsors. The right in question is the right to refuse to buy a product or service you don't want.

Indeed, though I feel the product analysis is misplaced.

 

[Mojo2]

Did you intentionally mislead us with that newspaper clipping which looks convincing to a drive-by poster that the Heritage Foundation is a direct progenitor of Obamacare?

Or were you 'duped' by your own incompetence into thinking the cited info is actually true?

To the kind reader: One of the most common techniques used in the liberal media to cater their news 'mix' to their targeted audience of Libs and 'mush for brains' is to tell the truth in every story but to leave out an important piece of the puzzle to make the make the GOP look bad or mean or stupid or miserly and greedy.

Notice the cartoonish characterizations of individuals like Ann Coulter, Mitt Romney, and Sarah Palin? And they're trying to find a fitting stereotypical cartoonish icon or image to label Ted Cruz.

In the post above, is the dishonest Democrat narrative.

Here is a link to a rebuttal.

Column: Don't blame Heritage for ObamaCare mandate

By Stuart Butler Updated 2/6/2012 10:40 AM

Is the individual mandate at the heart of "ObamaCare" a conservative idea? Is it constitutional? And was it invented at The Heritage Foundation? In a word, no.

Don't blame Heritage for ObamaCare mandate ? USATODAY.com

 

[thereisnospoon]

A lot of people like to argue against the ACA by claiming that health care is not a right.

Declaring whether something is a right or not is bull.

People are only entitled to rights that those in power allow them to have.

Congress and the president could pass a law outlawing free speech after impeaching all of the Supreme Court and replacing them with rubber stamp puppet heads who would rule that outlawing free speech rights was constitutional.

Then, the people would not have the right to free speech.

A right is a legal invention that doesn't really mean anything because all laws are excuses that people in power use to control people who are not in power.

So, if it is true that health care is not a right, than it's legally justifiable to watch people who can't afford it drop dead when they could be cured...but that doesn't make it right whether it's a "right" or not.

In other words people who say health care is not a right, just need to sit down and shut up.

"Congress and the president could pass a law outlawing free speech after impeaching all of the Supreme Court and replacing them with rubber stamp puppet heads who would rule that outlawing free speech rights was constitutional."
They could? Explain how this would occur.
Use your own words.
One thing you should do it stop confusing 'healthcare' with health insurance.
They are NOT the same. They are in fact mutually exclusive.
We have the best health care system in the world to which by law, we all have access.
Your side's problem is somewhere along the way someone convinced you that you NEED health insurance in order to survive. That is not true.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Not exactly spelled out in black and white but...

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Please elaborate on your post.