Is healthcare a right? why or why not?

[Avorysuds]

Maybe I should ask... when you say it should be a right, do you mean a "natural right?" Or do you mean it should be a law, like "That person is sick, you all get to pay to make him better."

I never said anything about rights. I said that thinking, reasonable people know that universal health care is not free....and then you said that people want YOU to pay for them. You are wrong. People want to be responsible for themselves.......and others..by paying for affordable access.

You would be OK with someone who has no money having sub-standard or no health care. That is because you are troubled.

Universal health care is not possible unless someone is paying for you. I'm all for UHC if people are allowed to opt in and opt out and the only funds it gets are what the people in that set system put in. Then we can all watch that system collapse upon itself.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Maybe I should ask... when you say it should be a right, do you mean a "natural right?" Or do you mean it should be a law, like "That person is sick, you all get to pay to make him better."

I never said anything about rights. I said that thinking, reasonable people know that universal health care is not free....and then you said that people want YOU to pay for them. You are wrong. People want to be responsible for themselves.......and others..by paying for affordable access.

You would be OK with someone who has no money having sub-standard or no health care. That is because you are troubled.

Universal health care is not possible unless someone is paying for you. I'm all for UHC if people are allowed to opt in and opt out and the only funds it gets are what the people in that set system put in. Then we can all watch that system collapse upon itself.

Unless you do not earn an income at all..............YOU ARE WRONG.

 

[Texanmike]

I never said anything about rights. I said that thinking, reasonable people know that universal health care is not free....and then you said that people want YOU to pay for them. You are wrong. People want to be responsible for themselves.......and others..by paying for affordable access.

You would be OK with someone who has no money having sub-standard or no health care. That is because you are troubled.

Universal health care is not possible unless someone is paying for you. I'm all for UHC if people are allowed to opt in and opt out and the only funds it gets are what the people in that set system put in. Then we can all watch that system collapse upon itself.

Unless you do not earn an income at all..............YOU ARE WRONG.

A right is something that cannot be taken away from you by anyone. It is not something which must be provided for you by everyone. You have the right to equal access to healthcare which you can pay for you do not have the right to healthcare which someone else must pay for.

Mike

 

[Listening]

Again....the nutters think that people want it to be free. That is not the case. It has never been the case. It never will be the case.

Nobody is seeking FREE health care.

Yes, you are right.

They don't want FREE health care.

They just want health care they don't have to pay for.

 

[Listening]

No....you are failing to understand the concept of "country".

Go to Japan, or Sweden...France, Germany, Canada........and ask the citizens there...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHOM HAS ACCESS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE...if they think it is free.

You are either unwilling to learn the truth or willing to be full of shit. Which is it.

Uuuhhhmmmm.....

Actually, that isn't true.

I spent some time in Canada where the gripe was the lack of GP physicians. Seems some of them have headed south to make more money (just enough to cause a shortage). It was huge part of the election debates I watched when I was there.

I don't bash systems, but I can tell you they don't have access to quality health care.

If they don't pay taxes, and some Canadians don't, then it is free to them.

 

[Money]

Healthcare is not any sort of natural right. At the same time, I suppose if the government said it was a right due to citizens, then it would be a right...a legal right… like in the Bill of Rights.

 

[LoneLaugher]

No....you are failing to understand the concept of "country".

Go to Japan, or Sweden...France, Germany, Canada........and ask the citizens there...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHOM HAS ACCESS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE...if they think it is free.

You are either unwilling to learn the truth or willing to be full of shit. Which is it.

Uuuhhhmmmm.....

Actually, that isn't true.

I spent some time in Canada where the gripe was the lack of GP physicians. Seems some of them have headed south to make more money (just enough to cause a shortage). It was huge part of the election debates I watched when I was there.

I don't bash systems, but I can tell you they don't have access to quality health care.

If they don't pay taxes, and some Canadians don't, then it is free to them.

In Canada.....and Japan where I lived under a universal health care system....and all the other places in the world with single payer systems....people with very low incomes are subsidized in one way or another. The mistake you nutters make is in thinking that low income workers and those with no incomes are happily living that existence just because they are able to remain physically healthy.

It is a fucked up POV. Add to that the fact that our system, with all the profit built in.....and people using emergency services instead of preventive service....COSTS YOU MORE.....and all a thinking person can do is shake his head at you.

 

[newpolitics]

It is absolutely a right, and should not be contingent on whether you went to harvard, whether you were born into a wealthy family, or are of a certain skin color... no one asked for this life, so while we are here, we should all take care of each other.

 

[Toro]

Health care is not a right. It is a service.

 

[Toro]

No....you are failing to understand the concept of "country".

Go to Japan, or Sweden...France, Germany, Canada........and ask the citizens there...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHOM HAS ACCESS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE...if they think it is free.

You are either unwilling to learn the truth or willing to be full of shit. Which is it.

Uuuhhhmmmm.....

Actually, that isn't true.

I spent some time in Canada where the gripe was the lack of GP physicians. Seems some of them have headed south to make more money (just enough to cause a shortage). It was huge part of the election debates I watched when I was there.

I don't bash systems, but I can tell you they don't have access to quality health care.

If they don't pay taxes, and some Canadians don't, then it is free to them.

In Canada.....and Japan where I lived under a universal health care system....and all the other places in the world with single payer systems....people with very low incomes are subsidized in one way or another. The mistake you nutters make is in thinking that low income workers and those with no incomes are happily living that existence just because they are able to remain physically healthy.

It is a fucked up POV. Add to that the fact that our system, with all the profit built in.....and people using emergency services instead of preventive service....COSTS YOU MORE.....and all a thinking person can do is shake his head at you.

I'm Canadian.

Generally, Canadians are very happy with their health care system, but there are serious problems.

For example, my mother recently had a knee replacement. Never mind that she had to wait months to get it, her rehab has been a nightmare. Over the years, she has been very unhappy with her GP, but the rehab has been the straw that broke the camel's back. Her incompetent GP gave her some bad advice - he knows little about knee replacements - which caused my mother a great deal of anguish and pain. She wants to change GPs but can't. If you have a GP where she lives, doctors will not let you switch. Why? Because about 10% of Canadians don't have a GP. Those people get first priority. So those who are stuck with bad GPs are out of luck. Sometimes my mother will go to the emergency room to get treated rather than go to her GP. That's bullshit.

 

[Bern80]

No....you are failing to understand the concept of "country".

Go to Japan, or Sweden...France, Germany, Canada........and ask the citizens there...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHOM HAS ACCESS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE...if they think it is free.

You are either unwilling to learn the truth or willing to be full of shit. Which is it.

Then the question becomes why do you think it is better for the government to run it through taxes than for people to handle financing it themselves?

 

[Bern80]

Maybe I should ask... when you say it should be a right, do you mean a "natural right?" Or do you mean it should be a law, like "That person is sick, you all get to pay to make him better."

I never said anything about rights. I said that thinking, reasonable people know that universal health care is not free....and then you said that people want YOU to pay for them. You are wrong. People want to be responsible for themselves.......and others..by paying for affordable access.

You would be OK with someone who has no money having sub-standard or no health care. That is because you are troubled.

If that really was what people wanted, that is the ability to take care of themsleves, then no one here would be arguing FOR UHC. No it's not free, but psychologically to a lot of people it is. People don't view the taxes automatically being taken out of their paychecks they way they view the bills that they have to pay out of their pockets every month. And for a lot of Americans who have little to know tax liability, yes, it would be free.

 

[Bern80]

It is absolutely a right, and should not be contingent on whether you went to harvard, whether you were born into a wealthy family, or are of a certain skin color... no one asked for this life, so while we are here, we should all take care of each other.

Why is you obligating someone to take care of you, better or more efficient than YOU taking care of you? And no it is not a right by any defintion of the word. Under a free society you NEVER have the right to identure someone else into your servitude.

 

[Listening]

It is absolutely a right, and should not be contingent on whether you went to harvard, whether you were born into a wealthy family, or are of a certain skin color... no one asked for this life, so while we are here, we should all take care of each other.

That is an opinion.

It hasn't been a right in the U.S. for almost 220 years (that is a fact) and hopefully it will never be one.

 

[Listening]

In Canada.....and Japan where I lived under a universal health care system....and all the other places in the world with single payer systems....people with very low incomes are subsidized in one way or another. The mistake you nutters make is in thinking that low income workers and those with no incomes are happily living that existence just because they are able to remain physically healthy.

It is a fucked up POV. Add to that the fact that our system, with all the profit built in.....and people using emergency services instead of preventive service....COSTS YOU MORE.....and all a thinking person can do is shake his head at you.

I frankly don't care where you lived and what you thought you saw.

You continually read things into posts because you so arrogant and confident of your own self-righteous attitude that you don't listen worth a crap.

And your use of the word nutters only shows just how shallow and intolerant you are.

I didn't say anything against the system. I simply pointed out that your statement was not true. I spent time in Canada, know doctors in Canada and have seen the system groan through the same troubles any system goes through. That isn't good. It isn't bad. It is what it is.

I simply said, they can't get access to health care the way you claim. They have had in the past, and potentially continue to have a shortage of general practitioners in some areas of the country. I have heard almost universally that they have great immediate (emergency) care. I have often heard that things that can wait sometimes have to....sometimes to the detriment of patients.

I didn't say better. I didn't say worse. I simply said what I have seen and what those who live there have reported to me when we discuss the subject.

Your comments about POV are just made up straw men. Who said anything about emergency rooms in the U.S....this is just left wing barf that comes up when someone who can't think for themselves somehow believes they have a chance to look quasi intelligent.

Well, you failed.

Stick to what is said, not to what your DailyKos type filters cause you read "between the lines".

 

[Listening]

I'm Canadian.

Generally, Canadians are very happy with their health care system, but there are serious problems.

For example, my mother recently had a knee replacement. Never mind that she had to wait months to get it, her rehab has been a nightmare. Over the years, she has been very unhappy with her GP, but the rehab has been the straw that broke the camel's back. Her incompetent GP gave her some bad advice - he knows little about knee replacements - which caused my mother a great deal of anguish and pain. She wants to change GPs but can't. If you have a GP where she lives, doctors will not let you switch. Why? Because about 10% of Canadians don't have a GP. Those people get first priority. So those who are stuck with bad GPs are out of luck. Sometimes my mother will go to the emergency room to get treated rather than go to her GP. That's bullshit.

Most Canadians I know would second your comment about being happy with the system. Most would also point out that there are issues...in some cases, some pretty substancial issues.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Listening]

Then the question becomes why do you think it is better for the government to run it through taxes than for people to handle financing it themselves?

For some of us, the answer is pretty obvious.

 

[Cecilie1200]

No....you are failing to understand the concept of "country".

Go to Japan, or Sweden...France, Germany, Canada........and ask the citizens there...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF WHOM HAS ACCESS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE...if they think it is free.

You are either unwilling to learn the truth or willing to be full of shit. Which is it.

Had a friend from the UK who lived here a while. He was always bitching about how much more his healthcare cost him here, and how this or that was "free" back in the UK. My husband finally got tired of it and sat him down and explained to him in-depth how he was full of shit.

Tell us again how "no one thinks it's free" when they can get someone else to pay for it, or just get it taxed out of everyone instead of paying out of pocket.

 

[Listening]

Had a friend from the UK who lived here a while. He was always bitching about how much more his healthcare cost him here, and how this or that was "free" back in the UK. My husband finally got tired of it and sat him down and explained to him in-depth how he was full of shit.

Tell us again how "no one thinks it's free" when they can get someone else to pay for it, or just get it taxed out of everyone instead of paying out of pocket.

While the UK is pretty large, other countries like Finland are about the size of Wisconsin. I think Florida is larger than Finland, Denamark and Norway combined (I think).

Why can't we have this discussion at the state level ? We have some examples of state run healthcare that can be dissected and discussed.

There is Tenncare and so called "Romney care". They have plusses and minuses. Why does this have to be a federal issue.

It certainly goes in the face of the 10th amendment (for any who think the Constitution sitll holds any sway whatsoever....or all of it and not just the parts that get you what you want....General Welfare does not mean Health Care).

 

[Katzndogz]

There is no right without responsibility.

If health care is a right, then you have an obligation to live according to prescribed healthy ways so as not to unduly burden your fellow citizens. You have a obligation to conduct yourself minimizing risk. Which means very few sports can be tolerated. Tennis elbow and a broken leg from skiing are both morally unacceptable. After all, someone else is paying the bill.

Under such a presumption, surely promiscuous sex would be prohibited as well as recreational drug use.