Is Israel the Same as South Africa?

[toastman]

Better yet, show me ONE article that says 'Israel has no territory'. Preferably not from mondoweiss or electronicintifada

 

[Hossfly]

I kind of feel bad, we kind of ganged up on Tinmore and he stopped posting...

Tinmore, you still there???[/QUOTE
Tinmore will be here long after you're surfing with the sharks.

Really, Georgie Boy??? Perhaps it will be you (more likely your ashes) who is surfing with the sharks off of Dockweiler Beach. Toastman is young enough that he can be having fun playing with the dolphins off of Malibu. Don't you feel that Hamas' man on these forums like Tinnie deserves a dinner break? After all, he appears to be on duty practically all the time. As an aside, in the real world and not on forums, no doubt Tinnie would consider Georgie Boy an abd. However, on forums it is "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" shtick.

 

[Hossfly]

What's the distinction between citizenship and nationality in Israel?

"Israel's Apartheid Laws


"1. Identity and Citizenship

"Law of Return (1950)Grants right of immigration to Jews born anywhere in the world. Amended in 1970 to extend this right to 'a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew.'

"A “Jew” is defined as 'a person who was born of a Jewish mother or has become converted to Judaism and who is not a member of another religion.'

"Non-Jewish native-born Palestinians – most importantly those who fled during the Zionist massacres in 1947 and 1948 – are in most cases prevented from returning."

What kind of democracy divides its citizens into two unequal classes?
The same kind Chicago enjoyed in the 1950s?

Israel's Apartheid Laws

Since the laws in Israel apply equality to all groups, I don't know why Georgie Boy is so hot about it, especially when a Black person like the leader of South Africa's daughter says there is no apartheid in Israel. Are you calling a fellow Black like she is a liar, Georgie Boy? Meanwhile, of course, you will never find Georgie Boy complaining about the actual apartheid in the Muslim world. Evidently he has no problem with the lighter-skinned Arabs in Libya keeping the Blacks in cages like in a zoo or with the President of Sudan saying he wants to rid his country of Black tribes. No Jews are involved, so Georgie Boy can't be bothered with what is happening to Blacks in various places. And, Georgie Boy, even someone like you has to be aware that each country can make up their own immigration laws. I am sure you would not be happy with some of the laws elsewhere either.

Israel is NOT apartheid state, says South African leader's daughter - Israel Today | Israel News

"Equality to all groups under the laws of Israel, really?

"Judicial Practice: Equal Protection Cases

"The Israeli courts – guided by the Supreme Court – have consistently decided that discrimination between Arabs and Jews is legitimate based on the founding principles of Israel as a state for the Jewish people; 'nationality' is considered a legitimate basis for discrimination.

"In the State of Israel vs. Ashgoyev (1988), an Israeli settler was convicted by the Tel Aviv District Court of shooting a Palestinian child. The judge sentenced him to a suspended jail term of six months and community service.

"When challenged by critics, the trial judge, Uri Shtruzman, said: 'It is wrong to demand in the name of equality, equal bearing and equal sentences to two offenders who have different nationalities who break the laws of the State. The sentence that deters the one and his audience, does not deter the other and his community.'”

Since Israel is defined as a state of the Jewish nation world-wide, nationality will always trump citizenship among the "chosen community."

Georgie Boy seems to have no problem with the immigration laws of other countries. He only has a problem with Israel because the Jews are involved. Try getting citizenship in many other countries, Georgie Boy, and then come back and tell us what happened. What is pathetic here is that Georgie Boy keeps on bringing up the same stuff over and over and over like some one-trick pony, when there is so much worse going on in the world, but of course this worse stuff doesn't have anything to do with the Jews so Georgie Boy isn't interested. You don't think that intelligent viewers can see right through you, Georgie Boy, to realize what you are all about?

 

[Kondor3]

I kind of feel bad, we kind of ganged up on Tinmore and he stopped posting...

Tinmore, you still there???[/QUOTE
Tinmore will be here long after you're surfing with the sharks.

Indeed, I was trying to choose which Palestinian map to post. Here in one from 1948.

Since Israel was founded in 1948 surely one of y'all can post a 1948 map of Israel.

Tinny...

Assuming that the beige-colored area on the map which you supplied (above) is all Palestinian-controlled territory...

Is this what you (the Palestinians) need - the minimum that you will accept - in order to make permanent peace with the Jews of the region?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would do nicely...

Thank you...

 

[toastman]

Looks like he conveniently disappeared

 

[Kondor3]

Looks like he conveniently disappeared

That's alright... I'll ask the question again later... but I'm sure Tinny will favor us with a straight answer...

After all... if he cannot precisely tell us what he wants, he cannot effectively advocate for that same thing...

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again with this Jibberish ??

Show me where you read that Israel needed permission from the Palestinians in order to declare independence in the area allotted to them in the partition plan
Show me where is says that if the Arabs rejected the partition plan, then ISrael would have no right to create a state in that area.

I don't need documents to prov anything. I have reality on my side.
Go on google, look for yourself. Type in 'Map of ISrael' and you will find an endless amount of websites with a clearly defined map of the State of Israel.

Also, Israel is a FULL member of the U.N Do you really think the U.N would give full membership to a country with no territory ?
Get real now

The partition plan transferred no land to Israel.

They did. The UN recognizes Israel inside the UN armistice lines that the UN itself stated were not to be political or territorial boundaries.

 

[Kondor3]

Tell us what you want, Tinny, in connection with the map...

A straight 'Yes' or 'No' answer to the question would do nicely...

 

[toastman]

Again with this Jibberish ??

Show me where you read that Israel needed permission from the Palestinians in order to declare independence in the area allotted to them in the partition plan
Show me where is says that if the Arabs rejected the partition plan, then ISrael would have no right to create a state in that area.

I don't need documents to prov anything. I have reality on my side.
Go on google, look for yourself. Type in 'Map of ISrael' and you will find an endless amount of websites with a clearly defined map of the State of Israel.

Also, Israel is a FULL member of the U.N Do you really think the U.N would give full membership to a country with no territory ?
Get real now

The partition plan transferred no land to Israel.

They did. The UN recognizes Israel inside the UN armistice lines that the UN itself stated were not to be political or territorial boundaries.

Uhh, you need a link for the bold.

 

[toastman]

You havent provided a link for anything that I've asked, as a matter of fact

 

[toastman]

Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No mention of Israel not having territory here

 

[Kondor3]

quote=P F Tinmore;7825739]

I kind of feel bad, we kind of ganged up on Tinmore and he stopped posting...

Tinmore, you still there???[/QUOTE
Tinmore will be here long after you're surfing with the sharks.

Indeed, I was trying to choose which Palestinian map to post. Here in one from 1948.

Since Israel was founded in 1948 surely one of y'all can post a 1948 map of Israel.

Sorry to continue to trouble you about this, Tinny, but many of your colleagues in the audience would benefit from some clarification on your part...

Assuming that the beige-colored area on the map which you supplied (above) is all Palestinian-controlled territory...

Is this what you (the Palestinians) need - the minimum that you will accept - in order to make permanent peace with the Jews of the region?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would do nicely...

Thank you...

 

[theliq]

Indeed, I was trying to choose which Palestinian map to post. Here in one from 1948.

Since Israel was founded in 1948 surely one of y'all can post a 1948 map of Israel.

Tinny...

Assuming that the beige-colored area on the map which you supplied (above) is all Palestinian-controlled territory...

Is this what you (the Palestinians) need - the minimum that you will accept - in order to make permanent peace with the Jews of the region?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would do nicely...

Thank you...

Kondor,Interesting Map,I never realized the Palestinians had such a Rail Network,I have never seen this whilst in Israel,methinks it must have been blown up at some stage circa 1947/48.

It would have been built by the Turks or British(or both)

steve

 

[theliq]

quote=P F Tinmore;7825739]

I kind of feel bad, we kind of ganged up on Tinmore and he stopped posting...

Tinmore, you still there???[/QUOTE
Tinmore will be here long after you're surfing with the sharks.

Indeed, I was trying to choose which Palestinian map to post. Here in one from 1948.

Since Israel was founded in 1948 surely one of y'all can post a 1948 map of Israel.

Sorry to continue to trouble you about this, Tinny, but many of your colleagues in the audience would benefit from some clarification on your part...

Assuming that the beige-colored area on the map which you supplied (above) is all Palestinian-controlled territory...

Is this what you (the Palestinians) need - the minimum that you will accept - in order to make permanent peace with the Jews of the region?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would do nicely...

Thank you...

Well from my point of view NO,I am pragmatic enough to say that Israel is here to stay,and rightly so.......despite how the Jews got the land,the history of Israel over the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so, has changed the dynamic of this area......but the Palestinian nation have the right,in fairness and justice to have a proportion of their land returned,including part of J'slem and all of the West Bank.....and this is the majority though of the Jewish Israelis themselves,and peoples worldwide

There is a track record in recent history in much of the world,where land is returned to the previous and/or the ethnic people of that region(Russia is a good example,with the emergence of Kazakstan,Uzbekistan,Azerbijan ect,.......and the break up of Yugoslavia...which now encompasses the Countries of Slovenia,Croatia,Boz-Hertz,Macedonia and all.) and all the previous Colonial Countries of the British ect,.

So Israel can if it wished,resolve this on going schism,and the benefits for both peoples would be terrific.

As an advocate of a 2 state solution.........which some on here would never or could contemplate,in my opinion,you will be overtaken by the future.

Viva Palestine,Viva Israel.....and most importantly too.......For Peace

steven

 

[toastman]

quote=P F Tinmore;7825739]

Indeed, I was trying to choose which Palestinian map to post. Here in one from 1948.

Since Israel was founded in 1948 surely one of y'all can post a 1948 map of Israel.

Sorry to continue to trouble you about this, Tinny, but many of your colleagues in the audience would benefit from some clarification on your part...

Assuming that the beige-colored area on the map which you supplied (above) is all Palestinian-controlled territory...

Is this what you (the Palestinians) need - the minimum that you will accept - in order to make permanent peace with the Jews of the region?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would do nicely...

Thank you...

Well from my point of view NO,I am pragmatic enough to say that Israel is here to stay,and rightly so.......despite how the Jews got the land,the history of Israel over the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so, has changed the dynamic of this area......but the Palestinian nation have the right,in fairness and justice to have a proportion of their land returned,including part of J'slem and all of the West Bank.....and this is the majority though of the Jewish Israelis themselves,and peoples worldwide

There is a track record in recent history in much of the world,where land is returned to the previous and/or the ethnic people of that region(Russia is a good example,with the emergence of Kazakstan,Uzbekistan,Azerbijan ect,.......and the break up of Yugoslavia...which now encompasses the Countries of Slovenia,Croatia,Boz-Hertz,Macedonia and all.) and all the previous Colonial Countries of the British ect,.

So Israel can if it wished,resolve this on going schism,and the benefits for both peoples would be terrific.

As an advocate of a 2 state solution.........which some on here would never or could contemplate,in my opinion,you will be overtaken by the future.

Viva Palestine,Viva Israel.....and most importantly too.......For Peace

steven

For Peace !

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, et al,

Let's not get catch-up in this nonsense.

Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No mention of Israel not having territory here

(COMMENT)

HAMAS does not allow for any Jewish control of Palestine.

The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.

SOURCE: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty

They don't recognize anything that contradicts HAMAS objectives. It will be an endless cycle of no recognition.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[theliq]

quote=P F Tinmore;7825739]

Sorry to continue to trouble you about this, Tinny, but many of your colleagues in the audience would benefit from some clarification on your part...

Assuming that the beige-colored area on the map which you supplied (above) is all Palestinian-controlled territory...

Is this what you (the Palestinians) need - the minimum that you will accept - in order to make permanent peace with the Jews of the region?

A simple 'Yes' or 'No' would do nicely...

Thank you...

Well from my point of view NO,I am pragmatic enough to say that Israel is here to stay,and rightly so.......despite how the Jews got the land,the history of Israel over the Palestinians over the past 60 years or so, has changed the dynamic of this area......but the Palestinian nation have the right,in fairness and justice to have a proportion of their land returned,including part of J'slem and all of the West Bank.....and this is the majority though of the Jewish Israelis themselves,and peoples worldwide

There is a track record in recent history in much of the world,where land is returned to the previous and/or the ethnic people of that region(Russia is a good example,with the emergence of Kazakstan,Uzbekistan,Azerbijan ect,.......and the break up of Yugoslavia...which now encompasses the Countries of Slovenia,Croatia,Boz-Hertz,Macedonia and all.) and all the previous Colonial Countries of the British ect,.

So Israel can if it wished,resolve this on going schism,and the benefits for both peoples would be terrific.

As an advocate of a 2 state solution.........which some on here would never or could contemplate,in my opinion,you will be overtaken by the future.

Viva Palestine,Viva Israel.....and most importantly too.......For Peace

steven

For Peace !

Look Toasty this situation between either side and the tit for tat killings/murders are for both peoples and families an abomination......no one wants to live like this....I think that with an agreement things will settle down into a peaceful situation....the Palestinians are smart people and despite their difficulties over the past 60 years have one of the highest University entrants in the world......it will be this generation that will benefit into the future,and the Jews likewise.

Both these peoples can and will make a great contribution to the world.

It is the small number of Fundoes on either side that are the flies in the ointment.steven

Yes for Future Peace

 

[docmauser1]

I never realized the Palestinians had such a Rail Network,I have never seen this whilst in Israel,methinks it must have been blown up at some stage circa 1947/48. It would have been built by the Turks or British(or both)

Ah, major development projects mean major arab immigrants from the hood, of course.

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman, et al,

Let's not get catch-up in this nonsense.

Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No mention of Israel not having territory here

(COMMENT)

HAMAS does not allow for any Jewish control of Palestine.

The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.

SOURCE: The Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine is an Individual Duty

They don't recognize anything that contradicts HAMAS objectives. It will be an endless cycle of no recognition.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, Hamas has consistently said that they would never recognize the occupation of Palestine.

I think your average American would feel the same way about the US.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I think the Israeli feel the same way.

Indeed, Hamas has consistently said that they would never recognize the occupation of Palestine.

I think your average American would feel the same way about the US.

(COMMENT)

As I asked in Post 182 in thread "Document confirms World Zionist Organization allocates land to settlers in Jordan:" "What has HAMAS done for the Palestinian People that was not ultimately discretionary at the hands of the State of Israel? What has HAMAS ever done other then to deny the Palestinian peace and prosperity in lieu of a conflict that they have no hope of ever achieving?"

HAMAS is an obstruction to both local and regional peace and prosperity. There is no reasonable expectation that the Hostile Arab Palestinian is ever going to gain control of the State of Israel. The best it can hope for, without a peace settlement, is that its people don't starve to death.

RAFAH, Gaza Strip – As part of a crackdown against Sinai militants, Egypt’s military-led government destroyed at least 40 smuggling tunnels over the last two weeks, according to officials in the Gaza Strip.

The move has exacerbated shortages in Gaza of construction materials and cheap Egyptian-produced gasoline, which are the primary products delivered through the tunnels.

Food, clothing and other consumer goods enter Gaza via Israel, supplying about 40% of the basic needs of Gaza, said Hatem Eweda, director general of Gaza’s Ministry of National Economy.

But he said the recent disruptions have put at risk about 60% of the territory’s daily commerce.

SOURCE: Abu Alouf is a special correspondent. Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times

GAZA, Sept. 10 (Xinhua) -- As most of sewage pumping stations stop working due to lack of fuel, the fuel shortage in the Hamas- ruled Gaza Strip risks environmental disaster, environment officials in Gaza said on Tuesday.

Bahaoldin al-Agha, director of the environment protection authorities in Gaza, told Xinhua that if the fuel shortage keeps growing, the sewage pumping stations in the Gaza Strip will completely stop working, "and the entire Gaza Strip will be flooded with sewage water."

Israel imposed a tight blockade on the Palestinian coastal enclave after Islamic Hamas movement violently seized control of it in June 2007. It allowed insufficient amounts of expensive gasoline and diesel into Gaza, but the population here couldn't afford purchasing it.

To resolve the fuel shortage, the Palestinians dug thousands of smuggling tunnels under the borders between the Gaza Strip and Egypt to get not only fuel, but also food and other goods. However, Egypt destroyed most of these tunnels since the fall of President Mohamed Morsi on July 3.

The Gaza Strip, with 1.7 million people, produces 120,000 cubic meter of waste and sewage water, according to the environment officials in Gaza, who added that there are 57 sewage pumping stations in the Gaza Strip operated by fuel that used to be smuggled from Egypt.

The fuel shortage is not only threatening to paralyze the 57 sewage pumping stations, but also increased blackout.

SOURCE: Xinhua News Service ---English.news.cn

At what point will the Palestinian say, enough is enough?

Most Respectfully,
R