Is Jesus the Word of God?

[ding]

Truth is discovered.

Do you believe in God? Or are you an atheist?

I am an atheist and yes truth is discovered through evidence and intelligent thought which is the opposite of faith and ancient myth

So you believe it is possible to examine something that is outside of space and time?

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Show me.

 

[ding]

Truth is discovered.

Do you believe in God? Or are you an atheist?

I am an atheist and yes truth is discovered through evidence and intelligent thought which is the opposite of faith and ancient myth

So you believe it is possible to examine something that is outside of space and time?

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Can I use something you created as evidence?

Are you your creation?

 

[Soupnazi630]

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

We are commanded to worship Jesus and call Him LORD! We are told not to worship anyone but GOD! Jesus must be GOD!
Jesus Created everything! GOD is the CREATOR! Jesus must be GOD!

Then why did the jesus character specifically claim to NOT be god?

Your theology is flawed.

Can you show me where Jesus said that?

I have no theology and yes I can.

Then show me.

Matthew 26:64

He sits at the right hand of power. Meaning god.

He is not god one and the same

 

[Soupnazi630]

I am an atheist and yes truth is discovered through evidence and intelligent thought which is the opposite of faith and ancient myth

So you believe it is possible to examine something that is outside of space and time?

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Can I use something you created as evidence?

Are you your creation?

No you cannot as that would not be evidence of your argument.

Existence is not evidence of creation and there is no evidence of a creator.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Jesus is the embodiment of the word of God for man to see and the Word of God is indifferent from God Himself.

I thought Jesus was God.

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

 

[BreezeWood]

The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Surely the word of God is whoever decides to believe the person speaking is the word of God.

There aren't too many people that did what Jesus did. Can you think of any?

.

There aren't too many people that did what Jesus did.

that is not true,

View attachment 184062

it was prevalent before that individual and has been repeated since that time to this day - and has been perpetuated by the same people throughout history, done so through the collective deception used as religion circumventing the truths those that have died for from ever flourishing which Jesus is but only one example.

justice has yet to be exacted and will not be as long as the fraudulent desert religions and others are perpetuated.

I was referring to the miracles and healings Jesus performed. No one in history has accomplished that. Only the power of God could do that.

.

I was referring to the miracles and healings Jesus performed. No one in history has accomplished that. Only the power of God could do that

and you could care less about the countless others, persecuted by your religion the same as was done to Jesus being the reality you hope to avoid by denying their accomplishments as being the same.

in the end, Jesus died as the others in glory and it is the fabrications of your religion, the desert religions that are responsible to this day.

 

[ding]

Jesus is the embodiment of the word of God for man to see and the Word of God is indifferent from God Himself.

I thought Jesus was God.

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I am an atheist and yes truth is discovered through evidence and intelligent thought which is the opposite of faith and ancient myth

So you believe it is possible to examine something that is outside of space and time?

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Show me.

Let's not forget hebrews 12:2 which more specifically places him AT THE SIDE OF GODS throne as opposed to ON the throne.

Jesus consistently claimed to be something other than god he never claimed to be one and the same.

The trinity argument is a rationalization manufactured years after the time that jesus would have lived.

 

[ding]

So you believe it is possible to examine something that is outside of space and time?

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Can I use something you created as evidence?

Are you your creation?

No you cannot as that would not be evidence of your argument.

Existence is not evidence of creation and there is no evidence of a creator.

Don't be silly. Of course I can use tangible items as evidence. They do it all the time.

If I found something you created but didn't know who created it, are you telling me there is absolutely nothing I could determine from that tangible item about the person who created it ?

 

[ding]

So you believe it is possible to examine something that is outside of space and time?

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Show me.

Let's not forget hebrews 12:2 which more specifically places him AT THE SIDE OF GODS throne as opposed to ON the throne.

Jesus consistently claimed to be something other than god he never claimed to be one and the same.

The trinity argument is a rationalization manufactured years after the time that jesus would have lived.

Do you understand what allegory means?

 

[Soupnazi630]

Jesus is the embodiment of the word of God for man to see and the Word of God is indifferent from God Himself.

I thought Jesus was God.

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

 

[Soupnazi630]

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Show me.

Let's not forget hebrews 12:2 which more specifically places him AT THE SIDE OF GODS throne as opposed to ON the throne.

Jesus consistently claimed to be something other than god he never claimed to be one and the same.

The trinity argument is a rationalization manufactured years after the time that jesus would have lived.

Do you understand what allegory means?

YEs and as I said yours is a massive failure which does not apply to the argument

 

[ding]

I thought Jesus was God.

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. T

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

 

[Soupnazi630]

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. T

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

A beginning does not mean a moment of creation.

 

[ding]

I thought Jesus was God.

So many christians say despite there being no mention of it in the new testament.

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

Actually we do.

 

[ding]

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. T

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

A beginning does not mean a moment of creation.

Sure it does. It is not possible for the universe to be infinite acting. It would violate the second law of thermodynamics.

Do you have any background in science at all.

I do.

 

[ding]

There are many references in the NT to Jesus being God. First chapter of gospel of John. First chapter of Revelation. Start with those two.

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. T

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

A beginning does not mean a moment of creation.

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

 

[Soupnazi630]

'

No and god in any definition or tradition is not out of space and time. He is stuck within it according to all texts on him

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Can I use something you created as evidence?

Are you your creation?

No you cannot as that would not be evidence of your argument.

Existence is not evidence of creation and there is no evidence of a creator.

Don't be silly. Of course I can use tangible items as evidence. They do it all the time.

If I found something you created but didn't know who created it, are you telling me there is absolutely nothing I could determine from that tangible item about the person who created it ?

I am saying that finding a man made object does not compare to the universe.

You have no evidence indirect or otherwise that it was created which is why your conparison is a rather childish and stupid FAILURE.

A better analogy is this.

You see a tree. You know it ultimately came from a seed but did am person plant the tree or did the seed fall there naturally?

You generally have no way of knowing unless some other evidence is present such as other trees in an orchard planted in deliberate rows.

You have no evidence that all of the cosmos was created by anything intelligent guidance.

 

[ding]

Sure he is. The painter cannot be the painting.

Your text clearly states he is in space and time even taking walks through his creation.


There is no painting.

The cosmos is not a creation.

Show me.

Let's not forget hebrews 12:2 which more specifically places him AT THE SIDE OF GODS throne as opposed to ON the throne.

Jesus consistently claimed to be something other than god he never claimed to be one and the same.

The trinity argument is a rationalization manufactured years after the time that jesus would have lived.

Do you understand what allegory means?

YEs and as I said yours is a massive failure which does not apply to the argument

I'm pretty happy how our conversation is going.

 

[Soupnazi630]

No there are notm and you need to cite specific chapters and verses. as the other fools failed to to do

~14 billion years ago all the matter and energy that exists in the universe occupied the space of 1 billionth of 1 trillionth the size of a single atom and then began to expand and cool. We know this from the cosmic background radiation, red shift and solutions to Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

In fact, the matter that makes up who you are was present for the creation of space and time.

The laws of nature were in place before space and time were created as they governed the creation of space and time. These same laws predestined being that know and create would eventually arise.

Actually no we do not know that.

We know the expansion happened, however thanks to Einstein and the red shift ad background radiation we only have a good idea of what happened a tiny fraction of a second AFTER the expansion began.

We really do not have any idea what happened in the time before that fraction of a second.

Therefore the rest of your post is pure ignorance of cosmology. Especially the part about the laws being present BEFORE the expansion began which we do NOT know and have no reason to state as a truth the way you did.

Also nothing whatsoever in cosmology and our understanding of the universe points to it being created as opposed to happening due to natural forces.

You are dishonestly citing evidence where their is none at all

If the universe is expanding then it must have a beginning. If you follow it backwards in time, then any object must come to a boundary of space time. You cannot continue that history indefinitely. This is still true even if a universe has periods of contraction. It still has to have a beginning if expansion over weights the contraction. Physicists have been uncomfortable with the idea of a beginning since the work of Friedman which showed that the solutions of Einstein's equation showed that the universe had a beginning. T

It is possible for matter to have a beginning. In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter. There is no conservation law that prevents the formation of such a universe. In quantum mechanics if something is not forbidden by conservation laws, then it necessarily happens with some non-zero probability. So a closed universe can spontaneously appear - through the laws of quantum mechanics - out of nothing. And in fact there is an elegant mathematical description which describes this process and shows that a tiny closed universe having very high energy can spontaneously pop into existence and immediately start to expand and cool. In this description, the same laws that describe the evolution of the universe also describe the appearance of the universe which means that the laws were in place before the universe itself.

A beginning does not mean a moment of creation.

According to most astrophysicists, all the matter found in the universe today -- including the matter in people, plants, animals, the earth, stars, and galaxies -- was created at the very first moment of time, thought to be about 13 billion years ago.

The universe began, scientists believe, with every speck of its energy jammed into a very tiny point. This extremely dense point exploded with unimaginable force, creating matter and propelling it outward to make the billions of galaxies of our vast universe. Astrophysicists dubbed this titanic explosion the Big Bang.

Origins: CERN: Ideas: The Big Bang | Exploratorium

YEs all true although the proper term is great expansion not big bang and no part of that understanding points to a creator.