Quantum Windbag
Gold Member
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No duty to retreat has always been part of Florida's self defense laws. It also is part of the self defense laws in California, and in federal courts.
Grow up.
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Is Obama a douche bag for exploiting another tragedy (Zimmerman) for political points
- Thread starter CMike
- Start date
No duty to retreat has always been part of Florida's self defense laws. It also is part of the self defense laws in California, and in federal courts.
Grow up.
Quantum Windbag
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The Zimmerman case had nothing to do with "stand your ground" yet the Obama Administration is exploiting it to push it's anti-gun rights agenda.
You're wrong. Stand Your Ground had everything to do with the Zimmerman trial - even though Zimmerman's defense team didn't argue SYG. Since Florida passed SYG in 2006, SYG language is now part of Floridas self-defense laws. The Zimmerman jury instructions stated that Zimmerman had the right to "stand his ground" - and this was entirely due to SYG being passed in 2006 which changed the self-defense laws. IOW, Zimmerman's defense team knew they didn't need to argue Stand Your Ground - because it was now included in Florida's self-defense laws.
Wow!
You shouldn't be surprised, Lakhota is one of the dumbest posters on the board.
Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
So why was Stand Your Ground in the judge's instructions and pivotal to that juror's thinking...here we go again with the BS Pub Propaganda....
Stand Your Ground was in the instructions to the jury because the law of the state of Florida requires it to be. Duuhhh. And one would hope - at least, one like me who wishes to live in a nation of laws, not a nation of lynch mobs - that the jury considered it in their deliberations because the law and the judge's instructions told them to.
I guess that's just too damned logical for leftists looking to capitalize on Trayvonmania.
Lakhota
Diamond Member
The Zimmerman case had nothing to do with "stand your ground" yet the Obama Administration is exploiting it to push it's anti-gun rights agenda.
You're wrong. Stand Your Ground had everything to do with the Zimmerman trial - even though Zimmerman's defense team didn't argue SYG. Since Florida passed SYG in 2006, SYG language is now part of Florida’s self-defense laws. The Zimmerman jury instructions stated that Zimmerman had the right to "stand his ground" - and this was entirely due to SYG being passed in 2006 which changed the self-defense laws. IOW, Zimmerman's defense team knew they didn't need to argue Stand Your Ground - because it was now included in Florida's self-defense laws.
No duty to retreat has always been part of Florida's self defense laws. It also is part of the self defense laws in California, and in federal courts.
Grow up.
Really? In Florida? Prove it with credible sources. I have credible proof to the contrary.
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
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Has Michelle said that she could have been the dead prostitutes recently found in East Cleveland or is she waiting to see if the Unsub is a White male?
Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
"Trayvon" Obama after Zimmerman's acquittal:
The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict."
Stop right there. "In a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant"? I thought this shithead was a lawyer who passed the bar, 'n' stuff. Why does he not know that reasonable doubt is relevant in EVERY trial, and is, in fact, the standard by law?
"There is a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and aftermath might have been different.
What the hell? Is he saying that a white teenaged male could have assaulted and battered George Zimmerman without being shot? That Zimmerman would have looked up and said, "Oh, you're white. Okay, I'll leave the gun in the holster"? Exactly what is "Trayvon" Obama smoking in the Oval Office?
I'd hate to think he was slandering the jurors by implying that they would have looked at the exact same evidence and decided differently if Martin had been white. Such an unfounded and uncalled-for insult to good citizens doing their civic duty would be unconscionable for anyone, but especially for one who is attempting to be President of the United States.
"But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling. You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago."
So what are you telling us, "Mr. President"? That 35 years ago, you went around assaulting people who looked at you funny? Or that you suspected of being gay (as Rachel Jenteal tells us Martin thought of Zimmerman)? And that if you had a son, you would have raised him to be a violent, belligerent thug? I thought this guy was supposed to be brilliant and a great orator, so why doesn't he understand that what he's telling us doesn't elevate Martin, but rather denigrates himself?
"And when you think about why, in the African- American community at least, theres a lot of pain around what happened here, I think its important to recognize that the African- American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that that doesnt go away."
Well, okay. Let's think about why the African-American community has "a lot of pain" around a black man being shot in self-defense, shall we? Is that because black men have such a high tendency to be violent, belligerent aggressors? I can see where that WOULD be painful. Or is it because, despite all the efforts of the civil rights movement and affirmative action out the wazoo, blacks are STILL thought of and taught to think of themselves as not being truly volitional human beings like the rest of us, but merely dark-skinned mannequins with no identity or individuality?
"There are very few African-American men in this country who havent had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me."
Really? What the hell was he doing while he wandered the department store? I can't remember the last department store I was in that had enough security personnel to follow every black man who ambled through, so "Trayvon" Obama must have been acting shifty.
"And there are very few African-American men who havent had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars."
As I believe we've established, the same can be said for every man of EVERY race who was ever between the ages of 15-25. Big frigging hairy deal. My heart bleeds for you and your poor, hurt wittle feelings.
"That happens to me, at least before I was a senator."
Yeah, now people in cars are more concerned with avoiding the traffic snarls caused by your godawful motorcade.
"There are very few African-Americans who havent had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often."
See above, regarding every male of every race in the country. Again, big fucking deal. Decent men see this and think, "It's so sad that the world is violent enough to force women to live in fear of strange men." Apparently, black men see this and think, "Racist bitch hurt my feelings!" I wonder what it's like to be that narcissistic?
"And you know, I dont want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African-American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And its inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear."
Shockingly, "Trayvon" Obama, the OTHER side of those sets of experiences - and whether you believe it or not, there IS another side to those same experiences - also inform how the REST of the American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring THOSE experiences to bear, which probably has a lot to do with why Florida's self-defense laws are written the way they are, and why the jury applied them the way it did. And, "Mr. President", you might want to consider that THOSE people are your constituents too.
Also, if he "doesn't want to exaggerate this", why is he?
One of the most important lessons to draw from the encounter between Martin and Zimmerman is, Dont confront and attack people because they behave in a manner you find insulting. Thats the last lesson Obama seems interested in teaching but then, hes never been big on personal responsibility. - John Hayward (from whose column I have drawn the quotes of "Trayvon" Obama.)
"f were sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms even if theres a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that wed like to see?"
Duuuhhh, "Mr. President". First of all, that "someone" is armed PRECISELY for hte purpose of using the firearm if necessary. What did you think, they were carrying a gun because it was a pretty fashion accessory?
Second of all, It was TRAYVON MARTIN who had the opportunity to exit the situation without violence, simply by the expedient of NOT STARTING THE VIOLENCE. George Zimmerman, by the time he knew there was an altercation from which to extricate himself, was on the ground being pummeled.
So yeah, I'd say people carrying guns and firing them in self-defense contributes to EXACTLY the sort of peace and security and order I'd like to see . . . and clearly, the people of the state of Florida agree, judging by their laws.
"And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these stand your ground laws, I just ask people to consider if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?"
Stood WHAT ground, "Mr. President"? Stand Your Ground doesn't apply to people who are in the process of committing an unlawful act, and Trayvon Martin was in the process of committing an unlawful act when he confronted George Zimmerman "on that sidewalk" - to whit, the unlawful act of assault. Had he been armed, I personally have no doubt he would have been committing the unlawful act of murder, and skipped right over the assault entirely.
"But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do? I know that Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think its important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government the criminal code. And law enforcement has traditionally done it at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels."
Then maybe you should tell your Attorney General to stop wasting time and taxpayer resources on pointless theatrics, give George Zimmerman his gun back, and start dealing with important business, Mr. President. - John Hayward
Sounds like a plan to ME.
So I'd have to say that "Trayvon" Obama isn't a douchebag for commenting on the Zimmerman-Martin case. I'd have to say that he commented on it BECAUSE he's a douchebag.
The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict."
Stop right there. "In a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant"? I thought this shithead was a lawyer who passed the bar, 'n' stuff. Why does he not know that reasonable doubt is relevant in EVERY trial, and is, in fact, the standard by law?
"There is a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and aftermath might have been different.
What the hell? Is he saying that a white teenaged male could have assaulted and battered George Zimmerman without being shot? That Zimmerman would have looked up and said, "Oh, you're white. Okay, I'll leave the gun in the holster"? Exactly what is "Trayvon" Obama smoking in the Oval Office?
I'd hate to think he was slandering the jurors by implying that they would have looked at the exact same evidence and decided differently if Martin had been white. Such an unfounded and uncalled-for insult to good citizens doing their civic duty would be unconscionable for anyone, but especially for one who is attempting to be President of the United States.
"But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling. You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot, I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago."
So what are you telling us, "Mr. President"? That 35 years ago, you went around assaulting people who looked at you funny? Or that you suspected of being gay (as Rachel Jenteal tells us Martin thought of Zimmerman)? And that if you had a son, you would have raised him to be a violent, belligerent thug? I thought this guy was supposed to be brilliant and a great orator, so why doesn't he understand that what he's telling us doesn't elevate Martin, but rather denigrates himself?
"And when you think about why, in the African- American community at least, theres a lot of pain around what happened here, I think its important to recognize that the African- American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that that doesnt go away."
Well, okay. Let's think about why the African-American community has "a lot of pain" around a black man being shot in self-defense, shall we? Is that because black men have such a high tendency to be violent, belligerent aggressors? I can see where that WOULD be painful. Or is it because, despite all the efforts of the civil rights movement and affirmative action out the wazoo, blacks are STILL thought of and taught to think of themselves as not being truly volitional human beings like the rest of us, but merely dark-skinned mannequins with no identity or individuality?
"There are very few African-American men in this country who havent had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me."
Really? What the hell was he doing while he wandered the department store? I can't remember the last department store I was in that had enough security personnel to follow every black man who ambled through, so "Trayvon" Obama must have been acting shifty.
"And there are very few African-American men who havent had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars."
As I believe we've established, the same can be said for every man of EVERY race who was ever between the ages of 15-25. Big frigging hairy deal. My heart bleeds for you and your poor, hurt wittle feelings.
"That happens to me, at least before I was a senator."
Yeah, now people in cars are more concerned with avoiding the traffic snarls caused by your godawful motorcade.
"There are very few African-Americans who havent had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often."
See above, regarding every male of every race in the country. Again, big fucking deal. Decent men see this and think, "It's so sad that the world is violent enough to force women to live in fear of strange men." Apparently, black men see this and think, "Racist bitch hurt my feelings!" I wonder what it's like to be that narcissistic?
"And you know, I dont want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African-American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And its inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear."
Shockingly, "Trayvon" Obama, the OTHER side of those sets of experiences - and whether you believe it or not, there IS another side to those same experiences - also inform how the REST of the American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring THOSE experiences to bear, which probably has a lot to do with why Florida's self-defense laws are written the way they are, and why the jury applied them the way it did. And, "Mr. President", you might want to consider that THOSE people are your constituents too.
Also, if he "doesn't want to exaggerate this", why is he?
One of the most important lessons to draw from the encounter between Martin and Zimmerman is, Dont confront and attack people because they behave in a manner you find insulting. Thats the last lesson Obama seems interested in teaching but then, hes never been big on personal responsibility. - John Hayward (from whose column I have drawn the quotes of "Trayvon" Obama.)
"f were sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms even if theres a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that wed like to see?"
Duuuhhh, "Mr. President". First of all, that "someone" is armed PRECISELY for hte purpose of using the firearm if necessary. What did you think, they were carrying a gun because it was a pretty fashion accessory?
Second of all, It was TRAYVON MARTIN who had the opportunity to exit the situation without violence, simply by the expedient of NOT STARTING THE VIOLENCE. George Zimmerman, by the time he knew there was an altercation from which to extricate himself, was on the ground being pummeled.
So yeah, I'd say people carrying guns and firing them in self-defense contributes to EXACTLY the sort of peace and security and order I'd like to see . . . and clearly, the people of the state of Florida agree, judging by their laws.
"And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these stand your ground laws, I just ask people to consider if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?"
Stood WHAT ground, "Mr. President"? Stand Your Ground doesn't apply to people who are in the process of committing an unlawful act, and Trayvon Martin was in the process of committing an unlawful act when he confronted George Zimmerman "on that sidewalk" - to whit, the unlawful act of assault. Had he been armed, I personally have no doubt he would have been committing the unlawful act of murder, and skipped right over the assault entirely.
"But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do? I know that Eric Holder is reviewing what happened down there, but I think its important for people to have some clear expectations here. Traditionally, these are issues of state and local government the criminal code. And law enforcement has traditionally done it at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels."
Then maybe you should tell your Attorney General to stop wasting time and taxpayer resources on pointless theatrics, give George Zimmerman his gun back, and start dealing with important business, Mr. President. - John Hayward
Sounds like a plan to ME.
So I'd have to say that "Trayvon" Obama isn't a douchebag for commenting on the Zimmerman-Martin case. I'd have to say that he commented on it BECAUSE he's a douchebag.
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
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As usual the douche in chief had an AGENDA with his taking sides against another American citizen and getting involved in this case...They want to AGAIN take away the citizens rights in this country to defend themselves by taking away, stand your ground laws...
Obama is never sincere in anything EXCEPT with anything that has to do with black, take the beer summit where he called police acting stupidly... face it folks Obama hates the rest of us in this country and want's to leave us defenseless where we have to rely on government only for defense..what better way to take your freedoms and have all control over you?
Obama is EVIL and you elected him to lord over you...shameful
Obama is never sincere in anything EXCEPT with anything that has to do with black, take the beer summit where he called police acting stupidly... face it folks Obama hates the rest of us in this country and want's to leave us defenseless where we have to rely on government only for defense..what better way to take your freedoms and have all control over you?
Obama is EVIL and you elected him to lord over you...shameful
Last edited:
CrusaderFrank
Diamond Member
- May 20, 2009
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Ahh, another race thread by conservatives who occuse liberals of always bringing up the race issue.
Obama could have been the which of the following people:
Hank Aaron,
Travyon,
Stymie,
Al Jolson,
Tiger Woods
Ike Willis
Immanuel
Gold Member
- May 15, 2007
- 16,828
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Poor Obama, he's just doing the best he can to pacify and mollify the angry masses. He just can't win for losing at this point. I'll bet he is so looking forward to 1/20/17.
I'll bet not half as much as we are.
Immie
bayoubill
aka Sheik Yerbouti...
Ahh, another race thread by conservatives who accuse liberals of always bringing up the race issue.
ahh... another lib who apparently believes conservatives should just sit idly by and not say a word about blatant lib race-bating...
Quantum Windbag
Gold Member
- May 9, 2010
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it was a self defense case, the Fla SYG laws were never brought up by lawyers from either side.
the SYG issue was brought up by the media and obozo in a failed attempt to make the case about race and guns.
Exactly correct. So I don't know why the judge mentioned it in her orders to the jurors. My take on it is that she got a call from someone, likely in the Obama Admin, telling her to make it part of the case. From what I've seen, it's nothing more than an attempt at disarming America.
Just because neither of you understand the law in Florida does not mean that stand your ground was in the jury instructions. What the jury instructions contained was an explanation of self defense laws in Florida.
So you're trying to say that the judge did not mention SYG in her orders to the jury? Is that your stance on the issue?
Feel free to point out where it was mentioned in the instructions. I will even make it easy for you by providing you with a link.
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Zimmerman_Final_Jury_Instructions.pdf
Quantum Windbag
Gold Member
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You're wrong. Stand Your Ground had everything to do with the Zimmerman trial - even though Zimmerman's defense team didn't argue SYG. Since Florida passed SYG in 2006, SYG language is now part of Floridas self-defense laws. The Zimmerman jury instructions stated that Zimmerman had the right to "stand his ground" - and this was entirely due to SYG being passed in 2006 which changed the self-defense laws. IOW, Zimmerman's defense team knew they didn't need to argue Stand Your Ground - because it was now included in Florida's self-defense laws.
No duty to retreat has always been part of Florida's self defense laws. It also is part of the self defense laws in California, and in federal courts.
Grow up.
Really? In Florida? Prove it with credible sources. I have credible proof to the contrary.
Feel free to provide non credible sources to prove me wrong, if you can find them.
Quantum Windbag
Gold Member
- May 9, 2010
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Ahh, another race thread by conservatives who accuse liberals of always bringing up the race issue.
Does calling someone a douchebag make me racist? When did that happen? Who is the racist in this video?
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYN4clGvGWw]Big Bang Theory Douche Bag - YouTube[/ame]
R
rdean
Guest
The tragedy was that a murderer got away. Now Republicans are on the side of child killers. Sandy Hook and now Zimmerman.
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 70,230
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Ahh, another race thread by conservatives who accuse liberals of always bringing up the race issue.
well of course we are just suppose to stand by while people claim, white rage is at fault for everything and while Obama (our firggen President who is SUPPOSE to represent ALL the people in this country) claims if Martin had been white he probably would still be alive..
well here's some white rage, you all can go to hell... we are not sitting back any longer...if blacks have a reason for rage now it seems whites do too..
Last edited:
bayoubill
aka Sheik Yerbouti...
The tragedy was that a murderer got away. Now Republicans are on the side of child killers. Sandy Hook and now Zimmerman.
given the title of the thread, it's certainly appropriate that you'd make an appearance in here...
douchebag...
Lakhota
Diamond Member
No duty to retreat has always been part of Florida's self defense laws. It also is part of the self defense laws in California, and in federal courts.
Grow up.
Really? In Florida? Prove it with credible sources. I have credible proof to the contrary.
Feel free to provide non credible sources to prove me wrong, if you can find them.
Well, you made the claim (without backing it up), but here are my sources:
Why were Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman judged by different standards?
Why 'Stand Your Ground' is really 'Kill at Will'
Cecilie1200
Diamond Member
Ahh, another race thread by conservatives who accuse liberals of always bringing up the race issue.
Pointing out that the "President" is a douchebag is a "race thread"? Only for bigots like you, who think blacks aren't fully volitional human beings like everyone else.
Quantum Windbag
Gold Member
- May 9, 2010
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The tragedy was that a murderer got away. Now Republicans are on the side of child killers. Sandy Hook and now Zimmerman.
Murderers get away all the time. The only way to prevent that is to lock everyone up, which is a lot worse than a few killers walking the streets.
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