Is the Left - Right Paradigm Obsolete?

[Derideo_Te]

Extremism at both ends of the spectrum is the direct opposite of freedom and democracy.

Yeah cause extreme freedom is the opposite of freedom.

Define your "extreme" freedom.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The terms "liberal (Left)" or "conservative (Right)" need to be preceded by an adverb.

For example: socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

There are plenty of issues in which there is a distinct Left and Right position. Abortion: Left is pro-choice, Right is pro-life. Gun control: Left is for it, Right is against it. Big government: Left is for it, Right is against it.

The Left-Right paradigm is alive and well, despite demagogues like Glen Beck trying to muddy the waters.

Beck tries to make the liberal Democrat today the same guy as the conservative Democrat of 50+ years ago. He tries to paint the old Right as Left and pretend there is, and never has been, an extremist Right position. He says with an earnest straight face that Nazis are left wing. It is pretty scary times when some dipshit is trying real hard to say no Right position is extreme and people are buying it.

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Yet each and every one of your statements that are supposedly "clear" cut are not clear cut at all. You have your views on the subjects and you assume your abstract label is well known and irrefutable. No.. your chosen labels are arbitrary at best. But you benefit from the labeling don't you?

G5k made his points clearly and concisely enough for a reasonable person to understand. His criticism of Beck was accurate too.

 

[Contumacious]

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Is the Left - Right Paradigm Obsolete?

It doesn't matter.

Obsolete or not, the current system moves a LOT of money and is quite profitable for the powerful people behind the scenes who prop it up.


As long as congress has the power to customize the tax code for their friends and supporters and as long as congress has the power to open up the treasury to deficit spending on fat government contracts that feed the beasts known as the Military Industrial Complex and it's younger brother the Medical Industrial Complex, the fine folks who profit handsomely from their expensive relationships with our well-paid 'representatives' in DC will only pay for the two major parties to successfully participate. To do otherwise makes no business sense in the short term.

Good leadership from either side along the way may make us feel better for a time, but as long as we spend what little political capital that an average American Peasant can raise squabbling over our competing ideologies and social issues, the well connected are free to drain the future in to their pockets via paid favoritism.

Face it folks... We're stuck with the polarized two party system of left versus right until we somehow band together and demand fair and simple taxes and a return to PAYGO.



Links:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/clean-debate-zone/305934-january-17-1961-a.html - The date that the term 'Military Industrial Complex' was coined by President Eisenhower

PAYGO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dblack]

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

The point is that the 'package deals' offered by the left and the right, as represented by the Democrats and Republicans, don't accurately map to the views of a large chunk of disaffected voters. They split along an axis that ignores the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, with both parties leaning authoritarian. The left/right mapping places pure authoritarians alongside pure libertarians, forcing both groups into the meaningless role of 'centrists', when if fact we are polar opposites.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The terms "liberal (Left)" or "conservative (Right)" need to be preceded by an adverb.

For example: socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

There are plenty of issues in which there is a distinct Left and Right position. Abortion: Left is pro-choice, Right is pro-life. Gun control: Left is for it, Right is against it. Big government: Left is for it, Right is against it.

The Left-Right paradigm is alive and well, despite demagogues like Glen Beck trying to muddy the waters.

Beck tries to make the liberal Democrat today the same guy as the conservative Democrat of 50+ years ago. He tries to paint the old Right as Left and pretend there is, and never has been, an extremist Right position. He says with an earnest straight face that Nazis are left wing. It is pretty scary times when some dipshit is trying real hard to say no Right position is extreme and people are buying it.

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Yet each and every one of your statements that are supposedly "clear" cut are not clear cut at all. You have your views on the subjects and you assume your abstract label is well known and irrefutable. No.. your chosen labels are arbitrary at best. But you benefit from the labeling don't you?

G5k made his points clearly and concisely enough for a reasonable person to understand. His criticism of Beck was accurate too.

It's never as simple as the labels we all so blithely toss around imply.

About the only thing that can be politically agreed upon by most of us is that we all wish we had better choices at the polls.

 

[Contumacious]

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

The point is that the 'package deals' offered by the left and the right, as represented by the Democrats and Republicans, don't accurately map to the views of a large chunk of disaffected voters. They split along an axis that ignores the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, with both parties leaning authoritarian. The left/right mapping places pure authoritarians alongside pure libertarians, forcing both groups into the meaningless role of 'centrists', when if fact we are polar opposites.

We have a massive gargantuan tyrannical central government created by BOTH parties.

.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The terms "liberal (Left)" or "conservative (Right)" need to be preceded by an adverb.

For example: socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

There are plenty of issues in which there is a distinct Left and Right position. Abortion: Left is pro-choice, Right is pro-life. Gun control: Left is for it, Right is against it. Big government: Left is for it, Right is against it.

The Left-Right paradigm is alive and well, despite demagogues like Glen Beck trying to muddy the waters.

Beck tries to make the liberal Democrat today the same guy as the conservative Democrat of 50+ years ago. He tries to paint the old Right as Left and pretend there is, and never has been, an extremist Right position. He says with an earnest straight face that Nazis are left wing. It is pretty scary times when some dipshit is trying real hard to say no Rightward position is extreme and people are buying it.

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Left and Right have merit when modified, as you point out. Calling everyone who disagrees with them a Leftist or a right winger simply because they hold and opinion which differs their own is nonsensical.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

The point is that the 'package deals' offered by the left and the right, as represented by the Democrats and Republicans, don't accurately map to the views of a large chunk of disaffected voters. They split along an axis that ignores the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, with both parties leaning authoritarian. The left/right mapping places pure authoritarians alongside pure libertarians, forcing both groups into the meaningless role of 'centrists', when if fact we are polar opposites.

It boils down to an ideological battle and this is one war that cannot be fought to the death.

For America to survive, neither extreme should be permitted to lead.

I still say that the solution to the problem is to remove from congress the power to customize taxes for 'special interests' and remove their power to spend beyond what they're willing to collect in taxes, and not in some broad changing of the ideological minds of the masses.

 

[dblack]

The terms "liberal (Left)" or "conservative (Right)" need to be preceded by an adverb.

For example: socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

Right, but this pretty much admits that "left" and "right" don't cut it. On the left/right spectrum someone who is socially liberal, fiscally conservative will line right up with someone who is socially conservative, fiscally liberal.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

The point is that the 'package deals' offered by the left and the right, as represented by the Democrats and Republicans, don't accurately map to the views of a large chunk of disaffected voters. They split along an axis that ignores the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, with both parties leaning authoritarian. The left/right mapping places pure authoritarians alongside pure libertarians, forcing both groups into the meaningless role of 'centrists', when if fact we are polar opposites.

We have a massive gargantuan tyrannical central government created by BOTH parties.

.

Or... we have a massive gargantuan tyrannical central government created by the folks who prop BOTH parties up with financing.

Who here believes that when tax favoritism and fat government contracts are on the line there are ANY ideologically pure donations to campaigns? I sure as hell don't.

Is the answer to make it illegal to give to both parties? NO!

The answer is to strip from government the power to customize the tax code for interests they deem 'special' and to strip from government the power to spend beyond what they are willing to collect in taxes.

 

[Contumacious]

The point is that the 'package deals' offered by the left and the right, as represented by the Democrats and Republicans, don't accurately map to the views of a large chunk of disaffected voters. They split along an axis that ignores the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, with both parties leaning authoritarian. The left/right mapping places pure authoritarians alongside pure libertarians, forcing both groups into the meaningless role of 'centrists', when if fact we are polar opposites.

We have a massive gargantuan tyrannical central government created by BOTH parties.

.

Or... we have a massive gargantuan tyrannical central government created by the folks who prop BOTH parties up with financing.

Who here believes that when tax favoritism and fat government contracts are on the line there are ANY ideologically pure donations to campaigns? I sure as hell don't.

Is the answer to make it illegal to give to both parties? NO!

The answer is to strip from government the power to customize the tax code for interests they deem 'special' and to strip from government the power to spend beyond what they are willing to collect in taxes.

The problem is that since, at least, the early 1900's the US became an aristocracy of pull when the congresscritters decided to micromanage the economy.

The US vs Microsoft case taught Bill Gates that businesses can not divorce themselves from politics.

.

 

[RKMBrown]

Extremism at both ends of the spectrum is the direct opposite of freedom and democracy.

Yeah cause extreme freedom is the opposite of freedom.

Define your "extreme" freedom.

Extreme means being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree.
Freedom means Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.

Thus the english translation of extreme freedom is being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree of liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.

I don't see a reason to proffer a change to the book definitions.

 

[RKMBrown]

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

And they are both wrong and the issues are not just left or right. Though, clearly, the left and right would like you to believe it so.

 

[Plasmaball]

The terms "liberal (Left)" or "conservative (Right)" need to be preceded by an adverb.

For example: socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

There are plenty of issues in which there is a distinct Left and Right position. Abortion: Left is pro-choice, Right is pro-life. Gun control: Left is for it, Right is against it. Big government: Left is for it, Right is against it.

The Left-Right paradigm is alive and well, despite demagogues like Glen Beck trying to muddy the waters.

Beck tries to make the liberal Democrat today the same guy as the conservative Democrat of 50+ years ago. He tries to paint the old Right as Left and pretend there is, and never has been, an extremist Right position. He says with an earnest straight face that Nazis are left wing. It is pretty scary times when some dipshit is trying real hard to say no Rightward position is extreme and people are buying it.

Left and Right are still very clear cut, despite the tards' best efforts to say they are not.

Left and Right have merit when modified, as you point out. Calling everyone who disagrees with them a Leftist or a right winger simply because they hold and opinion which differs their own is nonsensical.

this happens because of a lack of education from that person. I've watch hard righties turn on other hard righties because they disagree on one issue. Which goes back to my point that because of 24 hour opinion news and the internet.
1) Everything now has to be a political football
2) has to be put in left or right terms
3) things has focused hard to the pinpoint of answers.

 

[RKMBrown]

Of course, there is a dichotomy.

The Liberals want to tyrannize us in the name of the common good and the Fatherland.

The Conservatives want to do the same but in the name of god and religion.

Massive difference.

.

.

The point is that the 'package deals' offered by the left and the right, as represented by the Democrats and Republicans, don't accurately map to the views of a large chunk of disaffected voters. They split along an axis that ignores the libertarian/authoritarian distinction, with both parties leaning authoritarian. The left/right mapping places pure authoritarians alongside pure libertarians, forcing both groups into the meaningless role of 'centrists', when if fact we are polar opposites.

It boils down to an ideological battle and this is one war that cannot be fought to the death.

For America to survive, neither extreme should be permitted to lead.

I still say that the solution to the problem is to remove from congress the power to customize taxes for 'special interests' and remove their power to spend beyond what they're willing to collect in taxes, and not in some broad changing of the ideological minds of the masses.

Good luck removing the authoritative power of this two headed snake without first shedding massive quantities of blood. Tyrannies don't let go without a fight.

 

[Plasmaball]

Politics had become an issue by issue battle..where someone may fall into the liberal camp on say education,may take the conservative route on immagration.the 2 party system isnt made for this. So right now you have this "war, persay with in the parties on how to handle this. We see this more on the right ,right now.

So you might say "Politics makes strange bedfellows" to describe this current phenomenon, right? It accurately expresses that Left-Right dichotomy breaks down in certain specific issues, just like you say. Right?
Unfortunately it was coined in the 19th century. So this is hardly new. In fact it is the essence of politics that allegiances shift based on interests.

no i wouldnt say that. I would say because of technology things have become more extreme. Maybe not extreme, but focused.

It is new, because the this is not something that we were ready for and we are ( the american public) are currently playing catch up on.

 

[RKMBrown]

Politics had become an issue by issue battle..where someone may fall into the liberal camp on say education,may take the conservative route on immagration.the 2 party system isnt made for this. So right now you have this "war, persay with in the parties on how to handle this. We see this more on the right ,right now.

So you might say "Politics makes strange bedfellows" to describe this current phenomenon, right? It accurately expresses that Left-Right dichotomy breaks down in certain specific issues, just like you say. Right?
Unfortunately it was coined in the 19th century. So this is hardly new. In fact it is the essence of politics that allegiances shift based on interests.

no i wouldnt say that. I would say because of technology things have become more extreme. Maybe not extreme, but focused.

It is new, because the this is not something that we were ready for and we are ( the american public) are currently playing catch up on.

Yeah cause being the number one country on the planet in nearly every measure, unless you are measuring level of marxism and socialism, means we need to change everything about this country so we can catch up to the marxist socialists.

 

[Plasmaball]

im not sure this thread can handle the combined ego's of Rabbi and windbag....The internet may explode...You've been warned folks

 

[Plasmaball]

So you might say "Politics makes strange bedfellows" to describe this current phenomenon, right? It accurately expresses that Left-Right dichotomy breaks down in certain specific issues, just like you say. Right?
Unfortunately it was coined in the 19th century. So this is hardly new. In fact it is the essence of politics that allegiances shift based on interests.

no i wouldnt say that. I would say because of technology things have become more extreme. Maybe not extreme, but focused.

It is new, because the this is not something that we were ready for and we are ( the american public) are currently playing catch up on.

Yeah cause being the number one country on the planet in nearly every measure, unless you are measuring level of marxism and socialism, means we need to change everything about this country so we can catch up to the marxist socialists.

what? stop hitting your face with a hammer, then you won't post such stupid irrelevant garbage.