Is the US to blame for all of Cuba's ills?

[Likkmee]

Native hawaiians are americans and far better off than Cubans.

Poverty increased after batista was deposed.

OH. Your knowledge of Batista life is immense !
Fucking idiot.
Cubans were fine til they sided with the USSR(NOT russia russia russia)
They didn't have any options. The Great Satan would soon be back for Pig part 2.
TGS would have brought B52's for round 2 and killed a million civilians(we think it was worth it)
Fidel knew that very well.He drew his final sword.
Old schoolers say the USSR did'nt withdraw all of them. Thy left a couple there for insurance so TGS wouln't go for round 2, no matter what.
Maybe they were correct ???

 

[Soupnazi630]

The poor in Hawaii don't have high quality affordable HC.
All the people of Cuba do and it's rated as just one place down from America's by the WHO.

That could make it debatable on for US health care.

But there's no doubt that universal, high quality HC shines a totally different light on poverty.

In fact it 'is' America's biggest consideration for it's low ranking on 'quality of life'/poverty.

Quality of life rankings, countries:

1. Canada
2. Denmark
3. Sweden
4. Norway
5. Australia
6. Netherlands
7. Switzerland
8. New Zealand
9. Finland
10. Germany
11. Austria
12. United Kingdom
13. Luxembourg
14. Japan
15. United States
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Spain
19. China
20. Singapore

We have been over that already. All of the Cuban people do NOT have quality health care only the elite ruling class..

WHO is repeating propoganda which is issued by the communist regime of Cuba and that propoganda is not open to investigation or verification. When a communist government tells you they have great health care ( or any thing else ) they are lying.

Hawaiians have access to great HC.

You are simply wrong

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I wonder how many Cubans have died thanks to the horrendous attacks on it’s economy by the US over the last 60 fucking years. I bet it’s a big number.

What were our horrendous "attacks"?
How could our "attacks" kill any Cubans?
Be specific.

 

[Soupnazi630]

OH. Your knowledge of Batista life is immense !
Fucking idiot.
Cubans were fine til they sided with the USSR(NOT russia russia russia)
They didn't have any options. The Great Satan would soon be back for Pig part 2.
TGS would have brought B52's for round 2 and killed a million civilians(we think it was worth it)
Fidel knew that very well.He drew his final sword.
Old schoolers say the USSR did'nt withdraw all of them. Thy left a couple there for insurance so TGS wouln't go for round 2, no matter what.
Maybe they were correct ???

It is better than your

Fucking retard.

Cubans did not side the the USSR Castro did and he was on their side long before he took power. Batista was a corrupt dictator no doubt but wuality of life in general was better iunder his regime than the communist regime of castro.

 

[Donald H]

We have been over that already. All of the Cuban people do NOT have quality health care only the elite ruling class..

WHO is repeating propoganda which is issued by the communist regime of Cuba and that propoganda is not open to investigation or verification. When a communist government tells you they have great health care ( or any thing else ) they are lying.

Hawaiians have access to great HC.

You are simply wrong

Best for me to just leave it at that with you.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Best for me to just leave it at that with you.

Yes you should. You are out of your league

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All the people of Cuba do and it's rated as just one place down from America's by the WHO.

Hilarious!

 

[Donald H]

The only thing Hawaii had going for it that saved it from a popular revolution is the fact that Hawaii's native population was so hugely outnumbered.

Census: Nearly 200,000 Hawaii residents are living in poverty

The estimate puts Hawaii’s average poverty rate for 2016 to 2018 at 13.7%.

www.hawaiinewsnow.com

With less than 4000 native Hawaiians left!

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

You know, growing food is really easy. Cuba is a big country. They really need foreign currency to buy FOOD?
That's kind of embarrassing.

Typical snotty infantile response. Irrelevant to everything I carefully laid out in my own comment. This is why I don’t hang about here…

Cubans have shown for 60 years, like Vietnamese before them, that they can survive on rice and beans if necessary. Their creativity and determination in fighting back against Yankee imperialism’s embargo is legendary.

It was Stalinists who put up the Berlin Wall. Leave it to idiot American politicians to build a “Cuban Wall,” and act out the “definition of insanity” by doing the same stupid thing again and again and again, and expecting different results.

I raised most of the real issues in my long comment #682:

***

Twelve U.S. Presidents have failed to bring “regime change” to Cuba. Not sabotage, invasion by Cuban exiles, six decades of American embargo, assassination attempts, not even the fall of the Soviet Union or the passing of the Castro dynasty … has succeeded in breaking the Cuban government’s anti-imperialist will. That ruling bureaucracy built sufficiently deep roots among the island’s people to resist Yankee pressure all these years. After the collapse of the USSR Cuba went through harder times even than today.

My guess — that is all it is — is that the present protests will not change anything, and much of the new generation will again rally to oppose U.S. imperialist pressure. Deep anger and national pride is stoked by the unfairness of the U.S. embargo. It is not just a propaganda gift to a ruling elite.

The U.S. embargo, which has lasted 60 years now, forbids American businesses (and foreign businesses which operate in the US) to invest in or trade with Cuba. A close look at economic changes in Cuba will help explain the present protests, and why Cuba may survive as a “socialist state” into the future.

First we must recognize that the Trump Administration seriously tightened the embargo, threatened further economic reprisals against third parties when it ridiculously added Cuba to its “Terrorist” list, and even forbid Cuban-Americans to send money to family members on the island. The Biden Administration has not only NOT returned to Obama’s policies but it has not to date changed one iota of Trump’s embargo intensification policies. Winning Cuban votes in Florida in ‘22/‘24 is apparently all that matters to the DNC.

Above all, however, we should recognize that it was the loss of foreign exchange from tourism due to Covid travel restrictions (European and Canadian tourism dried up completely) that provided the biggest blow to the economy. People must eat! Cuba must buy many items crucial to everyday existence with foreign currency.

Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel argues “All this discontent, these feelings of dissatisfaction, what is the ultimate cause of all that? … It’s the blockade. This is part of the U.S. playbook to destabilize us, to generate chaos, to break our will and spirit.” Though technically not “a blockade,” the strengthened embargo and Covid remain the major factors that are bleeding the economy and causing protests, as they also are a reminder to Cubans of the unrelenting hostility of the U.S.A.

It would be great if China were to step in with big loans to get Cuba through this emergency period, but that has so far not occurred. The new leadership of the Cuban state and party bureaucracy has recently shown initiative in addressing one of the main factors of dissatisfaction in Cuba — the old guard’s allowing a “two-track” U.S. dollar / Cuban peso exchange rate that unfairly benefited those who could get their hands on U.S. dollars. With the resumption of tourism hopefully next year, this should go a long way toward improving both fairness and economic prospects in Cuba.

People in Cuba know full well how Cuban exiles live in the United States. A new “boat migration” is certainly possible. Cuban nationals understand American realities much more than we understand Cuban reality. Allowing free open trade and investment with & in Cuba is the only correct policy for the U.S. It is also the surest way to help Cubans win democratic rights on the island. It will put a new burden on the Cuban regime to defend itself in new ways, and open the road for more reconciliation with the new generation in the Cuban diaspora.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Wouldn't it be jackbooted Americans who have run roughshod over 40 countries with its wars of aggression, just since the end of WW2.

I'm proud to support Cuba's efforts, regardless of whether or not they needed a successful communist revolution to achieve their victory over US imperialism.

They could have been slaughtered under US bombs the same as the people of Vietnam or Iraq or any of the other victim countries.

It all speaks well for communism doesn't it!

If you think so highly of communism, why aren't you living in Cuba, the PRC or Venezuela? Instead, you live in a capitalist country, enjoying the fruits of capitalism while complaining about it. Go live your beliefs and be happy, don't stay here and be miserable.

 

[Donald H]

Hilarious!

Yes, it is in a sort of 'funny' way if one isn't an American.

Ranking the Best Healthcare in the World by Country

A list of the top health care systems by country. Singapore, Norway, and the Netherlands have the best healthcare systems. Find more...

www.internationalinsurance.com

38. US HealthCare System
39. Slovenia
40. Cuba

 

[AZrailwhale]

Pretty much true but don't forget that they always were just another relatively poor banana republic to begin with, which has still managed to stand above other banana republics. With their progressive communist system, Cubans don't know 'real' poverty.

And now China's peaceful co-operation with Cuba has finally freed them from under the punishing US dirty tricks.

Americans can just stew in their juices and hate from 90 miles away now!

Didn't know real poverty huh, how about no food in the stores, wonderful free health care facilities where you have to bring your own toilet paper and bed linens and there is no medicine. Once the USSR couldn't afford to subsidize Cuba anymore, the standard of living went form poor to disastrous.

 

[Donald H]

If you think so highly of communism, why aren't you living in Cuba, the PRC or Venezuela? Instead, you live in a capitalist country, enjoying the fruits of capitalism while complaining about it. Go live your beliefs and be happy, don't stay here and be miserable.

Canada is a capitalist country that doesn't allow completely unfettered capitalism. We attach some 'socialist' strings by not permitting our large corporations to completely disregard the needs of Canadians, re. jobs exported to China for instance.

This is the 'socialist' influence in our capitalist system.
America views any socially responsible limits on capitalism as 'communism'. And in fact that's exactly what it is!

No country in the world is as purely 'capitalist' as America.

Why do I stay in Canada?
Because Canada has the highest quality of life in the world. And included in that is the freedom to visit Cuba whenever I choose.

Why is America 15th. for quality of life and why are Americans forbidden from visiting Cuba?

Some suggest it's because America's governing system is akin to Nazism or fascism!

 

[Donald H]

Didn't know real poverty huh, how about no food in the stores, wonderful free health care facilities where you have to bring your own toilet paper and bed linens and there is no medicine. Once the USSR couldn't afford to subsidize Cuba anymore, the standard of living went form poor to disastrous.

Hate is never a good substitute from debating the facts.

Americans are left with the untenable position of accusing the WHO of lying. Or even worse, suggesting that the rest of the world are lying communists.
*I mean, what else can be said?
Cuba has high quality HC for all it's people (comparible to the US) and it's people are never starving.

*not to suggest that a lack of toilet paper isn't a huge poverty concern in Cuba! LOL

 

[Donald H]

Didn't know real poverty huh, how about no food in the stores, wonderful free health care facilities where you have to bring your own toilet paper and bed linens and there is no medicine. Once the USSR couldn't afford to subsidize Cuba anymore, the standard of living went form poor to disastrous.

If the toilet paper and the bed linens issues are in fact real, then what is it about America's system that places it only two places better than Cuba's and judged to be roughly equivalent on quality.

Cost? Access to the poor and working class American?
Other ideas (excuses)??

 

[Donald H]

Typical snotty infantile response. Irrelevant to everything I carefully laid out in my own comment. This is why I don’t hang about here…

Cubans have shown for 60 years, like Vietnamese before them, that they can survive on rice and beans if necessary. Their creativity and determination in fighting back against Yankee imperialism’s embargo is legendary.

It was Stalinists who put up the Berlin Wall. Leave it to idiot American politicians to build a “Cuban Wall,” and act out the “definition of insanity” by doing the same stupid thing again and again and again, and expecting different results.

I raised most of the real issues in my long comment #682:

***

Twelve U.S. Presidents have failed to bring “regime change” to Cuba. Not sabotage, invasion by Cuban exiles, six decades of American embargo, assassination attempts, not even the fall of the Soviet Union or the passing of the Castro dynasty … has succeeded in breaking the Cuban government’s anti-imperialist will. That ruling bureaucracy built sufficiently deep roots among the island’s people to resist Yankee pressure all these years. After the collapse of the USSR Cuba went through harder times even than today.

My guess — that is all it is — is that the present protests will not change anything, and much of the new generation will again rally to oppose U.S. imperialist pressure. Deep anger and national pride is stoked by the unfairness of the U.S. embargo. It is not just a propaganda gift to a ruling elite.

The U.S. embargo, which has lasted 60 years now, forbids American businesses (and foreign businesses which operate in the US) to invest in or trade with Cuba. A close look at economic changes in Cuba will help explain the present protests, and why Cuba may survive as a “socialist state” into the future.

First we must recognize that the Trump Administration seriously tightened the embargo, threatened further economic reprisals against third parties when it ridiculously added Cuba to its “Terrorist” list, and even forbid Cuban-Americans to send money to family members on the island. The Biden Administration has not only NOT returned to Obama’s policies but it has not to date changed one iota of Trump’s embargo intensification policies. Winning Cuban votes in Florida in ‘22/‘24 is apparently all that matters to the DNC.

Above all, however, we should recognize that it was the loss of foreign exchange from tourism due to Covid travel restrictions (European and Canadian tourism dried up completely) that provided the biggest blow to the economy. People must eat! Cuba must buy many items crucial to everyday existence with foreign currency.

Cuban President Miguel Diaz-Canel argues “All this discontent, these feelings of dissatisfaction, what is the ultimate cause of all that? … It’s the blockade. This is part of the U.S. playbook to destabilize us, to generate chaos, to break our will and spirit.” Though technically not “a blockade,” the strengthened embargo and Covid remain the major factors that are bleeding the economy and causing protests, as they also are a reminder to Cubans of the unrelenting hostility of the U.S.A.

It would be great if China were to step in with big loans to get Cuba through this emergency period, but that has so far not occurred. The new leadership of the Cuban state and party bureaucracy has recently shown initiative in addressing one of the main factors of dissatisfaction in Cuba — the old guard’s allowing a “two-track” U.S. dollar / Cuban peso exchange rate that unfairly benefited those who could get their hands on U.S. dollars. With the resumption of tourism hopefully next year, this should go a long way toward improving both fairness and economic prospects in Cuba.

People in Cuba know full well how Cuban exiles live in the United States. A new “boat migration” is certainly possible. Cuban nationals understand American realities much more than we understand Cuban reality. Allowing free open trade and investment with & in Cuba is the only correct policy for the U.S. It is also the surest way to help Cubans win democratic rights on the island. It will put a new burden on the Cuban regime to defend itself in new ways, and open the road for more reconciliation with the new generation in the Cuban diaspora.

It was always for no better reason than hate of communism next door.

But now there is suddenly China offering free and fair trade in Cuba and being welcomed into Cuba as an ally both economically and militarily.
That has to be seen as a very dangerous situation for world peace. America can't accept China's alliance with Cuba, considering military opportunities for China.

Possible tradeoffs between America and China, in both countries' spheres of influence?
S.K. for Cuba?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

that they can survive on rice and beans if necessary.

That's all they can afford in their "workers' paradise"?

Their creativity and determination in fighting back against Yankee imperialism’s embargo is legendary.

So is their creativity and determination in fighting back against their dictators.

Allowing free open trade and investment with & in Cuba is the only correct policy for the U.S.

The Cuban government won't allow Americans to trade freely with Cuban citizens.
The Cuban government won't allow Americans to freely invest in Cuban businesses.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes, it is in a sort of 'funny' way if one isn't an American.

Ranking the Best Healthcare in the World by Country

A list of the top health care systems by country. Singapore, Norway, and the Netherlands have the best healthcare systems. Find more...

www.internationalinsurance.com

Yes, commie stats from commie sources are funny.
Not as funny as commies believing commie stats.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Americans are left with the untenable position of accusing the WHO of lying.

Wow!
Funny, coming from the commie apologist.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

It was always for no better reason than hate of communism next door.

But now there is suddenly China offering free and fair trade in Cuba and being welcomed into Cuba as an ally both economically and militarily.
That has to be seen as a very dangerous situation for world peace. America can't accept China's alliance with Cuba, considering military opportunities for China.

Possible tradeoffs between America and China, in both countries' spheres of influence?
S.K. for Cuba?

I don’t think China will make the same gamble Khrushchev made in sending large scale military aid to Cuba before the Cuban Missile Crisis. Also, I am not nearly as enamored of the Chinese leadership as you seem to be. But I agree with some of what you say. I assume you were being facetious when talking about possibly exchanging S. Korea with Cuba in the great powers respective spheres of interest. Even “real politics” can’t pull off such trade-offs. South Korea in the end will probably be far more important than Cuba in the new Cold War. I doubt it will choose to take sides as much as the U.S. wants.