Is There A God?

[BreezeWood]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us. "He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

Let me ask you one question.
What is the motive of fabricating a faith where the only requirement is to believe Jesus Christ is your redeemer?

Control and money.

Christianity has zero requirements for having to follow orders from people nor give a penny.

So you validate there is no motive other than love.

You have to follow the 10 commandment and churches expect money from you.

There is nothing in the Bible that requires I pay any money to be a Christian.
Which of the 10 Commandments requires me to lose something and disturbs you?

1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
OK, zero cost.

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
OK, zero cost.

3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
OK, zero cost.

4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
OK, zero cost.

5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
OK, zero cost.

6 “You shall not murder.
OK, zero cost.

7 “You shall not commit adultery.
OK, zero cost.

8 “You shall not steal.
OK, zero cost.

9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
OK, zero cost.

10 “You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.”
OK, zero cost.

.

Which of the 10 Commandments requires me to lose something and disturbs you?

they are a fallacy without representation, an idolatry that costs you your Spirit.

.

 

[ding]

You might want to rethink your strategy. How exactly do you believe that conversation will go with Jesus when He asks you about it?

He'll agree with me that technically, it's possible. That Muslims do anal sex to preserve the female's virginity makes me think that the story of the virgin birth is based on commonplace events from that time.

It's your mistake to make.

Actually, god made anal sex when he put the laws of nature in motion at the Big Bang. Isn't that part of your theory?

Consider it an intelligence test. One smells good and the other smells like shit.

Ok, good, you didn't disagree with me.

I think it went over your head.

 

[ding]

The matter/energy which we are made of was created when space and time were created. We are literally star dust. We came from dust and we will return to dust.

"...The law implies that mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form,..."

.

"...The law implies that mass can neither be created nor destroyed, although it may be rearranged in space, or the entities associated with it may be changed in form,..."

... or the entities associated with it may be changed in form


so at the moment of singularity the transitional mass entities (do) change, the Bang being a cyclical event is not to say new matter is created from the old .... an entirely new universe is the result.

.

lol, no. Not according to our current models. The cosmic evolutionary phase of Creation was very chaotic - the development of space, time, matter and energy from nothing - and occurred quickly. It was during this phase that hydrogen and helium were formed from sub-atomic particles.

So... you see... that form thingee that you are misunderstanding... is still within the box we call the universe and still follows the laws of nature which came into existence when space and time were created. In fact, according to Leon Lederman it happened in 1 billionth of 1 trillionth of a second.

"In the very beginning, there was a void, a curious form of vacuum, a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound. Yet the laws of in and this curious vacuum held potential. A story logically begins at the beginning, but this story is about the universe and unfortunately there are no data for the very beginnings--none, zero. We don't know anything about the universe until it reaches the mature age of a billion of a trillionth of a second. That is, some very short time after creation in the big bang. When you read or hear anything about the birth of the universe, someone is making it up--we are in the realm of philosophy. Only God knows what happened at the very beginning."

Do you know why the equations break down at the singularity? Do you know what they yield?

.

"In the very beginning, there was a void, a curious form of vacuum, a nothingness containing no space, no time, no matter, no light, no sound.

that is only at the point of singularity - the Bang is cyclical, the expansion will stop at the apex of the finite angle all matter is traveling and will then begin following the finite angle to travel back to its origin to recreate through compaction a new singularity ... to create a new universe.

and unfortunately there are no data for the very beginnings--none, zero.

that's because we are in the expansion phase, when the matter reaches the apex of its angular projection and begins the path back to its origin the proof will be indisputable - similar to the characteristics of a boomerang.

Do you know why the equations break down at the singularity? Do you know what they yield?

yes, a new universe, time never stops there is no beginning or end.

.

No. The equations calculate infinity. Don't you know anything?

 

[sealybobo]

Most people think of "god" as a being who resembles them, hangs out in a place called "heaven" and passes harsh judgements on us. "He loves us", they say. "But, He is not going to love us if we don't obey him and do as he says. He will send us to hell if we disobey him and don't keep his commandments."

Now, that's all a bit confusing to me. How can he love us and then punish us in hell for all eternity if we don't obey his laws? Always heard that love is unconditional; why is gods love conditional?

For some reason I am suppose to bow to and worship some guy who has never physically revealed himself to me. I am suppose to do it on "faith" (whatever that is).

Now, don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a higher power - a force so strong it can create and destroy everything. And I believe that higher power to be intelligent. What I cannot believe any longer, after decades of doing so, is this higher power is jealous and petty and will put me in hell for also being jealous and petty. I don't believe this higher power will call for the murdering of people, yet put me in hell for murdering without his consent. If my purpose in being on this big blue marble is to aspire to be like him, then it is my responsibility to be jealous, petty and a murderer. If this truly is the way he is, then I don't want to be like him.

There are many, many different religions on this planet. Many are indigenous to particular regions or eras of the world. For instance: You have Judaics here, Muslims there, Buddhists over there and Christians all over the place. ALL of these religions began in different locales or in close proximity to each other at different times in history. Each became government sponsored according to what manner the government chose to use them. The United States was once considered a Christian country. So was much of Europe. Israel is considered to be a Jewish state. Thailand recognizes Buddhism as its traditional religion. Islam (the Muslim religion) is practiced throughout the middle east. There are way more than four religions - I am only using four as examples to save time and space.

Nearly all religions have three things in common: 1. They believe in a god. 2. Only their religions is right. 3. Fear.
Those are the three main things they all have in common. While some are non-violent, many will kill you or condemn you to hell for believing differently from them. Even sects within each religion will condemn or kill each other for not believing as they do, even though those sects claim to worship the same god (i.e. Catholics and Protestants; Secular and ultra-orthodox Jews).

I believe that #3, Fear, is the main motivator when it comes to peoples beliefs in their religions. People are terrified of the unknown. Death is an unknown. We don't know where we are going when we die, but we don't want to end. Death is permanent and scary as hell - unless you believe in hell, then you can avoid it. All you have to do is believe and do a few rituals, follow some commandments and, POOF, you will live forever in a wonderful mansion with or without (depending on your religion) 72 virgins.

No, I am not an atheist. Atheism is a religion as wicked as all of the rest. It is based in hatred and condemnation of those who are not atheists. Just like every other religion, atheism, seeks to dictate how others should think, believe and live. Many atheists would behead you, burn you at the stake, or hang you from a cross, just as quickly as any other religion has done in the past.

So, what religion am I? Just like being a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a Anarchist, a Voluntaryist...I am none. Or am of none. I do not subscribe to any religious dogma any more than I subscribe to any political dogma. I believe there is a force of energy that is so great it can create things from nothing, including the human life form. I don't believe that energy wants me to murder, be jealous, or be petty. I believe that I was created in that energies imagine, because I too am energy and energy never dies. Energy does not know heaven, nor does it know hell. Energy is immune to such stupidity.

We humans used to have great conversations and debates on this until someone (moses) came down from the mountain claim he talked to him.

 

[Spare_change]

Often times ignorance is insolent. This is especially true for ignorance that thinks it knows ~ ding ~

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

 

[ding]

Often times ignorance is insolent. This is especially true for ignorance that thinks it knows ~ ding ~

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

He's not agnostic. He is militant atheist. He has elevated atheism to a religion.

 

[Mudda]

Often times ignorance is insolent. This is especially true for ignorance that thinks it knows ~ ding ~

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

You have no proof any gates will be closed.

 

[Mudda]

Often times ignorance is insolent. This is especially true for ignorance that thinks it knows ~ ding ~

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

He's not agnostic. He is militant atheist. He has elevated atheism to a religion.

You're just jealous because I'm agnostic, the thinking person's position.

 

[ding]

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

He's not agnostic. He is militant atheist. He has elevated atheism to a religion.

You're just jealous because I'm agnostic, the thinking person's position.

Oh, yes, you are the most impressive person I abuse on these forums.

 

[tycho1572]

I've never had a problem with people having a belief in a power greater than themselves.

 

[Buck111]

What is the motive of the Judaic religion to believe "Jesus" (not his name, according to the bible, but we will go with that) was not my/your redeemer?

Christianity has zero requirements for having to follow orders from people nor give a penny.

So you validate there is no motive other than love.

What is the motive of the Judaic religion to believe "Jesus" (not his name, according to the bible, but we will go with that) was not my/your redeemer?

Christianity does have strict requirements to follow. Some are orders. Fail to follow them and you will be excommunicated (a bit like being kicked out of heaven before being judged at the gates of heaven, wouldn't you agree?)

Love is not the motive of Christianity or any other religion - control is.

 

[Czernobog]

I don't sit by, and do that. "The Magic Man in the Sky" mythology is no less rational than my acceptance of natural magick. I only become mocking when fanatics insist that any one mythology is absolute, rational, and beyond doubt.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yet you are insisting there can't be an all powerful being, only "natural magick".

It's possible this "natural magick" is from a single unifying force of which we are all a part. Another term some people use for this force is "God".

No, I'm not. I'm insisting that one cannot prove the existence of an all powerful being to a certainty, any more than I could prove the existence of magick to a certainty.

 

[tycho1572]

That said; I've attended several different churches when I was younger. I eventually decided to stick with the 'golden rules' I was taught by my parents.

 

[Buck111]

Since posting my original post in this thread, I have come to a conclusion.

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

To those who belong to something, whatever it is - it is what they belong to that is important; what they belong to is better than what anybody else belongs to. A strange phenomenon. Especially when you consider the following:

When you belong to something, you are owned by it - It is your master, and you, its slave. When people surrender their freedom to slavery based solely on beliefs, they surrender their responsibility for their own actions. They believe they are not accountable for the things they do as long as the things they do fall within the beliefs of that which they belong to. The jihadi believes it is his duty to blow himself and other people up because the religion he belongs to tells him it is the right thing to do; the air force pilot blows up the village filled with women and children because he believes the country he belongs to says it is the right thing to do; the abortion doctor aborts unborn children because the government he belongs to says it is legal to do so, and the AMA, which he also belongs to, says it is okay to do; the judge puts the person in jail for life for possessing a plant the government he belongs to says that is what he should do.

People do immoral things because the whatever they belong to takes the responsibility for the acts. It is like the slave who ties his fellow slave to a post and whips him for stealing a slice of bread. Morally it is not right, yet the plantation he belongs to says it is his duty. So he performs his duty and lays the blame at the feet of master, relieving his conscience of guilt. And his fellow slaves, who belong to the same plantation, accept it and absolve him from guilt.

I will no longer be looking for something to believe in. Instead I will spend my life looking at those things I know to be real, and live my life accordingly. A free human being cannot live on their knees believing a master he has never met is going to save his soul or feed him or care for his children. A free man knows that if he plants a seed and cares for it, that seed will bare fruit. From that seed he can feed his family and care for his children. Even believing in a god, he still has to plant his own seeds, so what good is believing in a god?

 

[Spare_change]

Often times ignorance is insolent. This is especially true for ignorance that thinks it knows ~ ding ~

Including you?

Sure, there's nothing special about me. It can fit me, but it was made for you.

I'm agnostic, I don't pretend to know.

Agnostic?

I think that means you don't know for sure, but you want to keep your options open.

Sorry --- but ambivalence won't get it done. The gates will be closed.

You have no proof any gates will be closed.

Yes, I do. God told me so.

Obviously, you didn't get the Word.

 

[Spare_change]

Since posting my original post in this thread, I have come to a conclusion.

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

To those who belong to something, whatever it is - it is what they belong to that is important; what they belong to is better than what anybody else belongs to. A strange phenomenon. Especially when you consider the following:

When you belong to something, you are owned by it - It is your master, and you, its slave. When people surrender their freedom to slavery based solely on beliefs, they surrender their responsibility for their own actions. They believe they are not accountable for the things they do as long as the things they do fall within the beliefs of that which they belong to. The jihadi believes it is his duty to blow himself and other people up because the religion he belongs to tells him it is the right thing to do; the air force pilot blows up the village filled with women and children because he believes the country he belongs to says it is the right thing to do; the abortion doctor aborts unborn children because the government he belongs to says it is legal to do so, and the AMA, which he also belongs to, says it is okay to do; the judge puts the person in jail for life for possessing a plant the government he belongs to says that is what he should do.

People do immoral things because the whatever they belong to takes the responsibility for the acts. It is like the slave who ties his fellow slave to a post and whips him for stealing a slice of bread. Morally it is not right, yet the plantation he belongs to says it is his duty. So he performs his duty and lays the blame at the feet of master, relieving his conscience of guilt. And his fellow slaves, who belong to the same plantation, accept it and absolve him from guilt.

I will no longer be looking for something to believe in. Instead I will spend my life looking at those things I know to be real, and live my life accordingly. A free human being cannot live on their knees believing a master he has never met is going to save his soul or feed him or care for his children. A free man knows that if he plants a seed and cares for it, that seed will bare fruit. From that seed he can feed his family and care for his children. Even believing in a god, he still has to plant his own seeds, so what good is believing in a god?

First of all -- this thread had nothing to do with your position. You were already close-minded when you started it. You were only looking for a soap box from which to pontificate.

As for the rest ---- it will definitely help the plants grow.

I congratulate you on your firm position - it's good that a man stands up for what he believes in -- even if it's for all eternity. I fo not. however, congratulate you on the substance of your position - you have missed, and will continue to miss, so much - for all of eternity.

May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[Buck111]

Since posting my original post in this thread, I have come to a conclusion.

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

To those who belong to something, whatever it is - it is what they belong to that is important; what they belong to is better than what anybody else belongs to. A strange phenomenon. Especially when you consider the following:

When you belong to something, you are owned by it - It is your master, and you, its slave. When people surrender their freedom to slavery based solely on beliefs, they surrender their responsibility for their own actions. They believe they are not accountable for the things they do as long as the things they do fall within the beliefs of that which they belong to. The jihadi believes it is his duty to blow himself and other people up because the religion he belongs to tells him it is the right thing to do; the air force pilot blows up the village filled with women and children because he believes the country he belongs to says it is the right thing to do; the abortion doctor aborts unborn children because the government he belongs to says it is legal to do so, and the AMA, which he also belongs to, says it is okay to do; the judge puts the person in jail for life for possessing a plant the government he belongs to says that is what he should do.

People do immoral things because the whatever they belong to takes the responsibility for the acts. It is like the slave who ties his fellow slave to a post and whips him for stealing a slice of bread. Morally it is not right, yet the plantation he belongs to says it is his duty. So he performs his duty and lays the blame at the feet of master, relieving his conscience of guilt. And his fellow slaves, who belong to the same plantation, accept it and absolve him from guilt.

I will no longer be looking for something to believe in. Instead I will spend my life looking at those things I know to be real, and live my life accordingly. A free human being cannot live on their knees believing a master he has never met is going to save his soul or feed him or care for his children. A free man knows that if he plants a seed and cares for it, that seed will bare fruit. From that seed he can feed his family and care for his children. Even believing in a god, he still has to plant his own seeds, so what good is believing in a god?

First of all -- this thread had nothing to do with your position. You were already close-minded when you started it. You were only looking for a soap box from which to pontificate.

As for the rest ---- it will definitely help the plants grow.

I congratulate you on your firm position - it's good that a man stands up for what he believes in -- even if it's for all eternity. I fo not. however, congratulate you on the substance of your position - you have missed, and will continue to miss, so much - for all of eternity.

May God have mercy on your soul.

I appreciate your concern for my "soul". Thank you. Now, please tell me what a "soul" is.

I am the originator of this thread - my position was the purpose of this threads creation.

How many gods are there and why does your god allow the other gods to exist? If he is the strongest god and a jealous god, why hasn't he destroyed the other gods? Why doesn't everybody in the world know about your god? How long is "eternity" and why should your god have mercy on my soul if I am not to his liking? Why would you even ask his mercy for me to me instead of praying for that mercy?

 

[Spare_change]

Since posting my original post in this thread, I have come to a conclusion.

I have concluded that human kind, for some reason (to which I have opinions) feel a need to belong. They believe they have to belong to something or they have no meaning or purpose. Religion is one of the biggest drawers for those who seek to belong to something. Political parties is another. Both are free and it costs nothing to join and feel connected to other like believing human beings. A person can 'fellowship' with a church 'brother' or 'sister', or create vote for __ signs with their fellow politician adorers. Of course this doesn't just apply to religion and politics, it applies to anything in which people join and claim to belong to.

To those who belong to something, whatever it is - it is what they belong to that is important; what they belong to is better than what anybody else belongs to. A strange phenomenon. Especially when you consider the following:

When you belong to something, you are owned by it - It is your master, and you, its slave. When people surrender their freedom to slavery based solely on beliefs, they surrender their responsibility for their own actions. They believe they are not accountable for the things they do as long as the things they do fall within the beliefs of that which they belong to. The jihadi believes it is his duty to blow himself and other people up because the religion he belongs to tells him it is the right thing to do; the air force pilot blows up the village filled with women and children because he believes the country he belongs to says it is the right thing to do; the abortion doctor aborts unborn children because the government he belongs to says it is legal to do so, and the AMA, which he also belongs to, says it is okay to do; the judge puts the person in jail for life for possessing a plant the government he belongs to says that is what he should do.

People do immoral things because the whatever they belong to takes the responsibility for the acts. It is like the slave who ties his fellow slave to a post and whips him for stealing a slice of bread. Morally it is not right, yet the plantation he belongs to says it is his duty. So he performs his duty and lays the blame at the feet of master, relieving his conscience of guilt. And his fellow slaves, who belong to the same plantation, accept it and absolve him from guilt.

I will no longer be looking for something to believe in. Instead I will spend my life looking at those things I know to be real, and live my life accordingly. A free human being cannot live on their knees believing a master he has never met is going to save his soul or feed him or care for his children. A free man knows that if he plants a seed and cares for it, that seed will bare fruit. From that seed he can feed his family and care for his children. Even believing in a god, he still has to plant his own seeds, so what good is believing in a god?

First of all -- this thread had nothing to do with your position. You were already close-minded when you started it. You were only looking for a soap box from which to pontificate.

As for the rest ---- it will definitely help the plants grow.

I congratulate you on your firm position - it's good that a man stands up for what he believes in -- even if it's for all eternity. I fo not. however, congratulate you on the substance of your position - you have missed, and will continue to miss, so much - for all of eternity.

May God have mercy on your soul.

I appreciate your concern for my "soul". Thank you. Now, please tell me what a "soul" is.

I am the originator of this thread - my position was the purpose of this threads creation.

How many gods are there and why does your god allow the other gods to exist? If he is the strongest god and a jealous god, why hasn't he destroyed the other gods? Why doesn't everybody in the world know about your god? How long is "eternity" and why should your god have mercy on my soul if I am not to his liking? Why would you even ask his mercy for me to me instead of praying for that mercy?

Why do you think other gods exist? My God is the one true god. All the rest of your questions become moot. There are those who think that Jesus has appeared several times - maybe as Mohammed, maybe as Buddha, maybe as something else. It is not for us to know. But, given the decided similarities of religious teaching, it is not outside the realm of possibility.

Everybody in the world DOES know about my God, but everybody in the world is given free will. They decide their future, not God. He only decides the result of your actions. If they decide not to follow Him, then their future is determined, and their path to Heaven is blocked.

As for your soul, I did not say that God WOULD have mercy on your soul, only that I'm asking. He makes the final decision - but you make it a slam dunk decision.

I'm not sure what you're asking in your last sentence, but I would hope that it would bring you some comfort to know that somebody is trying to intercede in your behalf.

Regarding the thread, you asked a question - clearly, not to hear the answer, but in order to pontificate your own beliefs. I wonder why you thought it necessary to ask others' opinions, when you really weren't the least bit interested in them. Then, to claim that this thread led you to a conclusion is, simply, a lie. And, we know where you go when you lie, don't we?

 

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I don't sit by, and do that. "The Magic Man in the Sky" mythology is no less rational than my acceptance of natural magick. I only become mocking when fanatics insist that any one mythology is absolute, rational, and beyond doubt.

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Yet you are insisting there can't be an all powerful being, only "natural magick".

It's possible this "natural magick" is from a single unifying force of which we are all a part. Another term some people use for this force is "God".

No, I'm not. I'm insisting that one cannot prove the existence of an all powerful being to a certainty, any more than I could prove the existence of magick to a certainty.

... and, conversely, you cannot disprove " ... the existence of an all powerful being to a certainty, any more than I could prove the existence of magick to a certainty."

So, I guess that makes believers, relying solely on faith, on both sides of the argument, don't you think?

 

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That said; I've attended several different churches when I was younger. I eventually decided to stick with the 'golden rules' I was taught by my parents.

Makes you wonder where they learned it, doesn't it?

Matthew 7:12, maybe????