Is there a god?

[oldsoul]

I, personally, believe that there is a god. What that means, though, I have been struggling with for quite some time. Therefore, I pose the questions:

1. If there is a god, what does that mean?
2. If there is not a god, what does that mean?

I am looking for opinion, obviously, I do not believe there will ever be proof, or empirical evidence (at least not until rapture, assuming that there is a god). What I am looking for here is what people believe. What leads you to believe what you do? Why?

Let me be clear, I am NOT looking for evangelism of any kind here. I am looking for what the presence of god (or lack of a god) means to you. I know this is a pretty ambiguous thread, and I do that on purpose, because I do not ant to influence the way anyone responds. I want to open a discussion about what your beliefs (whatever they are) have shaped who you are, how you look at religion (in general), and how you look at the world.

If you believe there is a God then quite simply...in the barest terms...it means you arent Him.

No sarcasm. This is where you should start and consider the implications.

That is a very interesting way of looking at this. Thank you, you have given me much to consider.

 

[oldsoul]

I first came here, to see if there was anything concrete that people believed in. Apparently, there's not. Not here, anyways.

Curious why you say that? Of course there is! But it is unique to every individual and you must find your own way. The spiritual path isn't like a diet that someone can recommend and you simple follow steps A, B and C and get there. The soul measures progress in its own way---- for some it might take many lifetimes; for others, they might realize God in an instant. The best way to find God is to first find someone else who has found God, a bonafide aspirant you have faith in who can guide you.

They’re just going to spout a bunch of bible stuff without any serious proof. I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

I think you are confusing man's interpretation of religious doctrine, with God's intent, expressed through said doctrine. Man is, by our very nature, imperfect, and therefore, do things that are against God's will. This fact does not, in any way, change God's will, or His plan/intent. God gave man the gift of reason so that each individual may CHOOSE their own path. That we may question the very existence of a god. What we do with that gift/ability is up to us, and our actions (regardless of their origins) are on us, as individuals.

 

[oldsoul]

They’re just going to spout a bunch of bible stuff without any serious proof. I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

The moral law is about what we ought to do, not what we do. But what we do does not negate the moral law.

But everyone who leans on religion thinks they are right and following your moral law. Like I said before, who gets to decide? Because ALL believers think that their view is right, especially Christians in the US, and they are obviously simply stupid and nuts.

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

 

[oldsoul]

I, personally, believe that there is a god. What that means, though, I have been struggling with for quite some time. Therefore, I pose the questions:

1. If there is a god, what does that mean?
2. If there is not a god, what does that mean?

I am looking for opinion, obviously, I do not believe there will ever be proof, or empirical evidence (at least not until rapture, assuming that there is a god). What I am looking for here is what people believe. What leads you to believe what you do? Why?

Let me be clear, I am NOT looking for evangelism of any kind here. I am looking for what the presence of god (or lack of a god) means to you. I know this is a pretty ambiguous thread, and I do that on purpose, because I do not ant to influence the way anyone responds. I want to open a discussion about what your beliefs (whatever they are) have shaped who you are, how you look at religion (in general), and how you look at the world.

There is absolutely no way to prove there is a god. Therefore, it is purely a matter of faith. It is a personal opinion. You shouldn't care about or be concerned about what others think. Think for yourself and stick to your guns. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

True, it does not matter what others think, at least as far as my own faith. However, gaining insight and wisdom from others has been a proven path towards finding, and sustaining, a personal relationship with one's god. Therefore, I choose to fellowship with others and discuss each person's faith (or lack thereof). It causes me to question aspects of my own faith, and determine, for myself, if their particular view more closely resembles what I see as my god's will.

 

[Taz]

I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

Really! So you haven't "found God," so don't know the first thing about Him, but you sure as hell know when someone else tells you they did and are lying?" Gee.

The funny thing about threads like this is that even when presented with a genuine opportunity to learn, none of the people actually asking the questions want to take advantage of the opportunity when presented to them! Proof positive that those claiming "a lack of evidence" are really just saying: "a lack of desire" on their part. You don't want to know, you just want to try to discredit and knock holes in anyone who says that religion and faith are not a waste of time. In other words, YOU are a waste of time.

I know all about the god believers talk about, I just don't see any real plausibility in what they tell me. Simply never makes any sense.

I'd like to learn about a real god, not some make up brah who drowned nearly all of humanity in his flood, he also helped the Israelites murder everyone in Jericho, Heshbon, Bashan and many more, usually killing women, children and animals at the same time. God once helped some Israelites kill 500,000 other Israelites. Totally cartoonish.

Then look beyond Western Christianity. God appears under many names and in many religions thousands of years before Christ.

I have, BUT haven't found a path to a reaL GOD YET.

 

[Taz]

dingbat proves me right.

Your refusal to accept the reality here is duly noted. Name call all you like, the fact remains you are being dishonest when you imply that you want a serious discussion to satisfy your curiosity. What you are looking for is a venue to attempt to discredit and impune the character of those who disagree with you.

The arguments for the god of the bible at this forum are of a feeble minded level. I came here looking for serious discussion, unfortunately I have found none, it's pretty much all nonsense that believers spout here. Which led me to my conclusion. That you can't accept it is your problem, not mine. maybe you can up god's side of the discussion here. Have any proof?

If it is proof you are looking for, I have what I believe and nothing more. One can "see" proof if one wishes, or one can "see" no proof, if that is what one wishes. Whether or not there is proof is not the point here. If you do not believe there is a god that's just fine with me. What I want to know from you, then, is what does that mean to you?

I'm agnostic, I see no proof either way for or against the possibility of a god(s), but am open to changing my mind given empirical proof either way. That's why I first came here, to see if there was anything concrete that people believed in. Apparently, there's not. Not here, anyways.

Well, if it's empirical proof you seek, I wish you all the luck in the world. I doubt you will ever find any, at least not in this life. See, the problem is that the very concept of god is far beyond anything we mere humans can comprehend. Therefore, empirical proof is impossible.

In other words, you have no real proof so you scapegoat your made up god and say that it's so on another level that there can be no proof. Oldest trick in The Book. YAWWWWN!

 

[Taz]

Curious why you say that? Of course there is! But it is unique to every individual and you must find your own way. The spiritual path isn't like a diet that someone can recommend and you simple follow steps A, B and C and get there. The soul measures progress in its own way---- for some it might take many lifetimes; for others, they might realize God in an instant. The best way to find God is to first find someone else who has found God, a bonafide aspirant you have faith in who can guide you.

They’re just going to spout a bunch of bible stuff without any serious proof. I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

I think you are confusing man's interpretation of religious doctrine, with God's intent, expressed through said doctrine. Man is, by our very nature, imperfect, and therefore, do things that are against God's will. This fact does not, in any way, change God's will, or His plan/intent. God gave man the gift of reason so that each individual may CHOOSE their own path. That we may question the very existence of a god. What we do with that gift/ability is up to us, and our actions (regardless of their origins) are on us, as individuals.

Seriously brah, if there was a god, do you actually think that it would need to express its will through A FUCKING BOOK??? AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

 

[Taz]

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

The moral law is about what we ought to do, not what we do. But what we do does not negate the moral law.

But everyone who leans on religion thinks they are right and following your moral law. Like I said before, who gets to decide? Because ALL believers think that their view is right, especially Christians in the US, and they are obviously simply stupid and nuts.

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

You made something up to fit your world, which makes you a believer... in something made up. That it creates animosity is on you, people don't usually like the hard questions...

 

[ding]

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

The moral law is about what we ought to do, not what we do. But what we do does not negate the moral law.

But everyone who leans on religion thinks they are right and following your moral law. Like I said before, who gets to decide? Because ALL believers think that their view is right, especially Christians in the US, and they are obviously simply stupid and nuts.

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

You made something up to fit your world, which makes you a believer... in something made up. That it creates animosity is on you, people don't usually like the hard questions...

Hard questions like why would someone subject a child to having two female parents?

 

[toobfreak]

I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

Really! So you haven't "found God," so don't know the first thing about Him, but you sure as hell know when someone else tells you they did and are lying?" Gee.

The funny thing about threads like this is that even when presented with a genuine opportunity to learn, none of the people actually asking the questions want to take advantage of the opportunity when presented to them! Proof positive that those claiming "a lack of evidence" are really just saying: "a lack of desire" on their part. You don't want to know, you just want to try to discredit and knock holes in anyone who says that religion and faith are not a waste of time. In other words, YOU are a waste of time.

I know all about the god believers talk about, I just don't see any real plausibility in what they tell me. Simply never makes any sense.

I'd like to learn about a real god, not some make up brah who drowned nearly all of humanity in his flood, he also helped the Israelites murder everyone in Jericho, Heshbon, Bashan and many more, usually killing women, children and animals at the same time. God once helped some Israelites kill 500,000 other Israelites. Totally cartoonish.

Then look beyond Western Christianity. God appears under many names and in many religions thousands of years before Christ.

I have, BUT haven't found a path to a reaL GOD YET.

Then maybe you need to let the path find you.

 

[toobfreak]

They’re just going to spout a bunch of bible stuff without any serious proof. I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

I think you are confusing man's interpretation of religious doctrine, with God's intent, expressed through said doctrine. Man is, by our very nature, imperfect, and therefore, do things that are against God's will. This fact does not, in any way, change God's will, or His plan/intent. God gave man the gift of reason so that each individual may CHOOSE their own path. That we may question the very existence of a god. What we do with that gift/ability is up to us, and our actions (regardless of their origins) are on us, as individuals.

Seriously brah, if there was a god, do you actually think that it would need to express its will through A FUCKING BOOK??? AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Taz, your making an awful mistake if you don't realize that God can reveal himself to you in countless ways--- ---of His choosing. An austerity, a repentance, a self-less act, a child's face, a lifelong friend, an animal's gratitude, a stranger's compassion, an unexpected event, a sudden epiphany, yes, even in a book.

 

[Indeependent]

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

I think you are confusing man's interpretation of religious doctrine, with God's intent, expressed through said doctrine. Man is, by our very nature, imperfect, and therefore, do things that are against God's will. This fact does not, in any way, change God's will, or His plan/intent. God gave man the gift of reason so that each individual may CHOOSE their own path. That we may question the very existence of a god. What we do with that gift/ability is up to us, and our actions (regardless of their origins) are on us, as individuals.

Seriously brah, if there was a god, do you actually think that it would need to express its will through A FUCKING BOOK??? AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Taz, your making an awful mistake if you don't realize that God can reveal himself to you in countless ways--- ---of His choosing. An austerity, a repentance, a self-less act, a child's face, a lifelong friend, an animal's gratitude, a stranger's compassion, an unexpected event, a sudden epiphany, yes, even in a book.

Do not attempt to engage in rational discussion with the irrational Taz.

 

[Taz]

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

The moral law is about what we ought to do, not what we do. But what we do does not negate the moral law.

But everyone who leans on religion thinks they are right and following your moral law. Like I said before, who gets to decide? Because ALL believers think that their view is right, especially Christians in the US, and they are obviously simply stupid and nuts.

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

You made something up to fit your world, which makes you a believer... in something made up. That it creates animosity is on you, people don't usually like the hard questions...

Hard questions like why would someone subject a child to having two female parents?

Your god made lesbians, don't forget it.

 

[Taz]

I have yet to find anyone who has actually found god, they might say they have, but when questioned, it’s obvious that they haven’t found shit.

Really! So you haven't "found God," so don't know the first thing about Him, but you sure as hell know when someone else tells you they did and are lying?" Gee.

The funny thing about threads like this is that even when presented with a genuine opportunity to learn, none of the people actually asking the questions want to take advantage of the opportunity when presented to them! Proof positive that those claiming "a lack of evidence" are really just saying: "a lack of desire" on their part. You don't want to know, you just want to try to discredit and knock holes in anyone who says that religion and faith are not a waste of time. In other words, YOU are a waste of time.

I know all about the god believers talk about, I just don't see any real plausibility in what they tell me. Simply never makes any sense.

I'd like to learn about a real god, not some make up brah who drowned nearly all of humanity in his flood, he also helped the Israelites murder everyone in Jericho, Heshbon, Bashan and many more, usually killing women, children and animals at the same time. God once helped some Israelites kill 500,000 other Israelites. Totally cartoonish.

Then look beyond Western Christianity. God appears under many names and in many religions thousands of years before Christ.

I have, BUT haven't found a path to a reaL GOD YET.

Then maybe you need to let the path find you.

I'm open to god contacting me. Always have been. I'm agnostic, so don't see proof for or against a god, but am open to changing my mind given real proof. Can't be any fairer than that. And that's why I'm interested in the subject.

 

[Taz]

they think they've found him--in their minds only

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

I think you are confusing man's interpretation of religious doctrine, with God's intent, expressed through said doctrine. Man is, by our very nature, imperfect, and therefore, do things that are against God's will. This fact does not, in any way, change God's will, or His plan/intent. God gave man the gift of reason so that each individual may CHOOSE their own path. That we may question the very existence of a god. What we do with that gift/ability is up to us, and our actions (regardless of their origins) are on us, as individuals.

Seriously brah, if there was a god, do you actually think that it would need to express its will through A FUCKING BOOK??? AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Taz, your making an awful mistake if you don't realize that God can reveal himself to you in countless ways--- ---of His choosing. An austerity, a repentance, a self-less act, a child's face, a lifelong friend, an animal's gratitude, a stranger's compassion, an unexpected event, a sudden epiphany, yes, even in a book.

You forgot "in fairy dust".

generalities like that don't impress me, I'm looking for a real being.

 

[Taz]

I have chosen the better portion. I hope you find half as much happiness in life as I have.

If it makes you feel better, than believer in the Spaghetti Monster if you want. Where I have a problem is when religion is the reason for so much killing in the world, or when parents want Creation taught in science class, which is fucking with kids' minds, or when idiots say that they have a god given right to a gun... then I have a big problem with religion.

I think you are confusing man's interpretation of religious doctrine, with God's intent, expressed through said doctrine. Man is, by our very nature, imperfect, and therefore, do things that are against God's will. This fact does not, in any way, change God's will, or His plan/intent. God gave man the gift of reason so that each individual may CHOOSE their own path. That we may question the very existence of a god. What we do with that gift/ability is up to us, and our actions (regardless of their origins) are on us, as individuals.

Seriously brah, if there was a god, do you actually think that it would need to express its will through A FUCKING BOOK??? AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Taz, your making an awful mistake if you don't realize that God can reveal himself to you in countless ways--- ---of His choosing. An austerity, a repentance, a self-less act, a child's face, a lifelong friend, an animal's gratitude, a stranger's compassion, an unexpected event, a sudden epiphany, yes, even in a book.

Do not attempt to engage in rational discussion with the irrational Taz.

Get back in your cage before I confuse you some more!!!

 

[ding]

The moral law is about what we ought to do, not what we do. But what we do does not negate the moral law.

But everyone who leans on religion thinks they are right and following your moral law. Like I said before, who gets to decide? Because ALL believers think that their view is right, especially Christians in the US, and they are obviously simply stupid and nuts.

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

You made something up to fit your world, which makes you a believer... in something made up. That it creates animosity is on you, people don't usually like the hard questions...

Hard questions like why would someone subject a child to having two female parents?

Your god made lesbians, don't forget it.

You misspelled females.

 

[ding]

I'm open to god contacting me. Always have been. I'm agnostic, so don't see proof for or against a god, but am open to changing my mind given real proof. Can't be any fairer than that. And that's why I'm interested in the subject.

 

[Taz]

But everyone who leans on religion thinks they are right and following your moral law. Like I said before, who gets to decide? Because ALL believers think that their view is right, especially Christians in the US, and they are obviously simply stupid and nuts.

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

You made something up to fit your world, which makes you a believer... in something made up. That it creates animosity is on you, people don't usually like the hard questions...

Hard questions like why would someone subject a child to having two female parents?

Your god made lesbians, don't forget it.

You misspelled females.

There is homosexuality and transgendering all throughout nature. God's work. If not, then who's work?

 

[ding]

Well, I guess that makes me a non-believer then. I do NOT think my view is the only way, I do NOT think my view is right for anyone but me. Therefore, by your logic, I am a non-believer.

See what happens when you start over generalising? It's offensive and immoral. You ONLY create animosity, and THAT is where your view falls.

You made something up to fit your world, which makes you a believer... in something made up. That it creates animosity is on you, people don't usually like the hard questions...

Hard questions like why would someone subject a child to having two female parents?

Your god made lesbians, don't forget it.

You misspelled females.

There is homosexuality and transgendering all throughout nature. God's work. If not, then who's work?

You misspelled males and females.