Is there a libertarian approach to poverty that *doesn't* come down to "just stop being poor"?

[Two Thumbs]

I've dealt with these arguments no less than four times today. Every time it was with a libertarian. Every time their main points were that we need to abolish the minimum wage and child labor laws, that being poor and being unemployed are synonymous, and that we can therefore fight poverty by employing as many people as possible at $4.50/hour. In other words, if you're poor then it's because you're unemployed, you're unemployed because you're too lazy to look for work, and if you didn't enjoy being poor and eating steak and lobster on your annual Caribbean cruise on our dime then you would go get a job and earn your own money.

tyranny never works and the min wage is a big failure since large corps can adsorb the cost more easily than small.

my plan is simple; shrink government
that will allow us to use tax money to lower the debt, a lower debt means our money is worth more, meaning we can buy more stuff and thus create more demand thus more jobs thus more tax money thus lower debt.

once we start to really lower the debt, cut taxes
this will put more money in our pockets, and since the debt is lower, we can buy way more stuff, thus create demand that creates jobs, that creates more tax money



It's simple math really

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

What exactly should we shrink? The military? Social security? Where specifically should the cuts be made?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Daniel evidently did.

great, 2 illiterates who cant speak English getting together!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What exactly should we shrink? The military? Social security? Where specifically should the cuts be made?

let politicians worry about where. Just reduce the total budget to an exact number that lowers 5% each year until the deficit and debt are eliminated.

 

[Slyhunter]

Social security shouldn't be shrunk. Government should pay back the money they borrowed from it and shrink everything else.

 

[Slyhunter]

How about the Corporate States of America conquers Iraq and takes a cut of all oil proceedings for all eternity.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Daniel evidently did.

great, 2 illiterates who cant speak English getting together!!

Again, you are the only one who's had trouble with reading comprehension so far. Literally nobody else in this thread, regardless of their economic viewpoint, has been reduced to asking for a post to be rewritten in smaller words.

let politicians worry about where. Just reduce the total budget to an exact number that lowers 5% each year until the deficit and debt are eliminated.

So what you're saying is that you don't actually have any specific goals in mind beyond cutting government spending? Look, think of it like drafting a personal budget. You don't just take a sheet of paper and write "spend less money" on it. That's so vague as to be completely worthless. You plan out exactly how much you can spend on what according to your priorities and projected income.

 

[danielpalos]

It's worth pointing out that neither of us have had trouble comprehending standard English. I only dumbed it down because you asked me to.

so then see if a liberal knows what your pig English meant.

Daniel evidently did. Then again, he understood the first time too, since he didn't have to ask me to rewrite it so any child could understand. So far you're the only one here who's needed that accommodation. I'm not sure why you're complaining about your request being granted.

only the Right loves to appeal to ignorance while claiming they are for the gospel Truth of any given issue.

 

[danielpalos]

Daniel evidently did.

great, 2 illiterates who cant speak English getting together!!

dear, only the clueless and the Causeless, say that.

 

[RKMBrown]

What exactly should we shrink? The military? Social security? Where specifically should the cuts be made?

Start with the Department of Education. We don't need federal education... let the states manage it.
Next fire the IRS... just implement some sort of flat tax... let the states collect it.
As for SS let everyone have their money back for what they put in and then cancel the SS experiment. At least let people opt out like priests and some religions can.
Military? We need to change the mission... to one of defending America vs occupying the planet.

 

[danielpalos]

why not end our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror?

 

[RKMBrown]

why not end our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror?

Finally, something I agree with dp on.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Start with the Department of Education. We don't need federal education... let the states manage it.

You know how the biggest problem your generation has with my generation is our generally shoddy education? How we've been slipping in that field to the point where we went from the best in the world to just south of average? Yeah. Let's cut education even more. And let's let Alabama - one of the central manufacturing and research areas for the space industry - stop requiring schools to provide science classes while we're at it. That's not going to cut off our leg to make the gash on our arm bleed less at all.

Next fire the IRS... just implement some sort of flat tax... let the states collect it.

And without most of our tax revenue we can say goodbye to public roads, public schools, much of the military, public police and fire services, and DARPA. Luckily, however, there are quite a few men of fortunate birth in this nation who would eagerly step up to provide many of those services for the right price as a new class of feudal lord.

As for SS let everyone have their money back for what they put in and then cancel the SS experiment. At least let people opt out like priests and some religions can.

The old folks and cripples were gonna die anyway.

Military? We need to change the mission... to one of defending America vs occupying the planet.

This is something I did agree with wholeheartedly not too long ago. It took a lot of thought and several world events for me to realize why that's impractical. We've tried isolationism before. It didn't work out too badly for us, but... Yeah. Pretty sure the last time we tried that Hitler invaded Poland. The world is too shitty a place not to have a military superpower keeping people in line. Most of the rest of the world is too small, too poor, too apathetic, or just so reliant on using us as a crutch and scapegoat that they couldn't deal with leading the charge themselves.

 

[RKMBrown]

Start with the Department of Education. We don't need federal education... let the states manage it.

You know how the biggest problem your generation has with my generation is our generally shoddy education? How we've been slipping in that field to the point where we went from the best in the world to just south of average? Yeah. Let's cut education even more. And let's let Alabama - one of the central manufacturing and research areas for the space industry - stop requiring schools to provide science classes while we're at it. That's not going to cut off our leg to make the gash on our arm bleed less at all.

Next fire the IRS... just implement some sort of flat tax... let the states collect it.

And without most of our tax revenue we can say goodbye to public roads, public schools, much of the military, public police and fire services, and DARPA. Luckily, however, there are quite a few men of fortunate birth in this nation who would eagerly step up to provide many of those services for the right price as a new class of feudal lord.

As for SS let everyone have their money back for what they put in and then cancel the SS experiment. At least let people opt out like priests and some religions can.

The old folks and cripples were gonna die anyway.

Military? We need to change the mission... to one of defending America vs occupying the planet.

This is something I did agree with wholeheartedly not too long ago. It took a lot of thought and several world events for me to realize why that's impractical. We've tried isolationism before. It didn't work out too badly for us, but... Yeah. Pretty sure the last time we tried that Hitler invaded Poland. The world is too shitty a place not to have a military superpower keeping people in line. Most of the rest of the world is too small, too poor, too apathetic, or just so reliant on using us as a crutch and scapegoat that they couldn't deal with leading the charge themselves.

Pissing money away does not improve education. You want better students? Raise the bar for what is needed to pass. The bar has been lowered to pass ignorant lazy good for nothing students. No child left behind... LOL... socialism is the problem not money.

Blah blah blah... socialists always claim the roads will crumble first and police and fire... all the while ignoring that we fund these at the local level. We don't need the feds. DUH

Darpa? All they are doing lately is spying on the public. We don't need to be spied on.

Our military is primarily policing the planet.. they don't want us there and we should not be wasting our resources on them.

It's not about isolationism.. It's about not going broke and pissing all our money away. We are spread out too far... study rome..

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Public education is an inherently socialist concept. If the teachers aren't being paid then less people will want to be one. If they're not being funded then they have nothing to work with.

Where do you think the state gets the money?

DARPA is the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. They research things. What kind of things? See for yourself: http://www.darpa.mil/our-research

They bitch about us being there, but they sure bitch when we leave. Remember what the world demands when we don't intervene in some crisis? "Where is America? How could they allow this to happen?" Then we fix their problems for them and they demand that we get out of their business. Do you really think, say, the UK or Germany is going to be willing to put up with that shit?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It's about not going broke and pissing all our money away. We are spread out too far... study rome..

Yes but we are spread far too thin because liberalism is spread far to thick. When Jefferson said we fired the shot heard around the world he was assuming the value of freedom would be obvious to the world. Instead, liberals took over here and the ISIS folks and 1000 others naturally got the idea that liberal govt was good and freedom was bad.
The world is turning toward liberal govt and, in effect, following our lead, although it is the opposite lead that Jefferson intended.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

What do you think "liberal" means exactly? You've used it in so many different, often contradictory ways that it makes me question whether you even know.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

What do you think "liberal" means exactly? You've used it in so many different, often contradictory ways that it makes me question whether you even know.

liberal= govt.
conservative= freedom from govt

Do you understand?

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Anarchists are conservative?

 

[SAYIT]

why not end our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror?

Finally, something I agree with dp on.

Great idea!

While we are at it, we should also empty our prisons and eliminate our police forces and courts!