Is there a libertarian approach to poverty that *doesn't* come down to "just stop being poor"?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

3. China makes their own manufactured goods with the help of the multinat corporations that moved all their factories over there. Now Americans' source of income is peddling Chinese crap, China gets to peddle its crap as "American", and the business leaders get to pocket all the extra money by using Communist slave labor that in a hostile nation that doesn't require them to provide a livable wage let along health and safety standards.

dear, if you don't like that liberals have driven our jobs and companies to China with their unions, taxes, and deficits why are you are liberal?

See why we say a liberal is stupid and slow? This idiot liberal wants to return to a pre industrial society in which we could not make modern weapons and would be instantly defeated. Stupid and liberal!!

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

100% stupid and liberal!! A high rate means they have to move off shore and take 30 million American jobs with them!! Does 30 million jobs mean nothing???

Notice how you get everything backwards as a typical liberal?

I have it backwards, huh? xD

dear, if you don't like that liberals have driven our jobs and companies to China with their unions, taxes, and deficits why are you are liberal?

See why we say a liberal is stupid and slow? This idiot liberal wants to return to a pre industrial society in which we could not make modern weapons and would be instantly defeated. Stupid and liberal!!

"If you're not liberal then why are you liberal?"

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

100% stupid and liberal!! A high rate means they have to move off shore and take 30 million American jobs with them!! Does 30 million jobs mean nothing???

Notice how you get everything backwards as a typical liberal?

I have it backwards, huh? xD

dear, if you don't like that liberals have driven our jobs and companies to China with their unions, taxes, and deficits why are you are liberal?

See why we say a liberal is stupid and slow? This idiot liberal wants to return to a pre industrial society in which we could not make modern weapons and would be instantly defeated. Stupid and liberal!!

"If you're not liberal then why are you liberal?"

dear, you say you are a liberal opposed to China taking our jobs yet you support the liberal policies that drove 30 million American jobs to China.

Do you understand?

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

100% stupid and liberal!! A high rate means they have to move off shore and take 30 million American jobs with them!! Does 30 million jobs mean nothing???

Notice how you get everything backwards as a typical liberal?

I have it backwards, huh? xD

dear, if you don't like that liberals have driven our jobs and companies to China with their unions, taxes, and deficits why are you are liberal?

See why we say a liberal is stupid and slow? This idiot liberal wants to return to a pre industrial society in which we could not make modern weapons and would be instantly defeated. Stupid and liberal!!

"If you're not liberal then why are you liberal?"

dear, you say you are a liberal opposed to China taking our jobs yet you support the liberal policies that drove 30 million American jobs to China.

Do you understand?

I have to admit that I regard you as a breathing parody of yourself at this point. I've stated that I'm not a liberal multiple times now. You simply ignored that, insisted that I really am, and then told me that I claim to be. I told you what I actually am. You ignored that. I quoted the links for you because you didn't read them. You ignored this as well. There is no taking that seriously. xD

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I've stated that I'm not a liberal multiple times now.

dear, you lack the IQ to know what you are. If you support some libNazi govt plan to take us back to the Stone age you are a liberal, in fact an unusually stupid liberal.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

I've stated that I'm not a liberal multiple times now.

dear, you lack the IQ to know what you are. If you support some libNazi govt plan to take us back to the Stone age you are a liberal, in fact an unusually stupid liberal.

It hurts to laugh.

 

[Rshermr]

Pedro, Ed is a paid con. Needs and has no brain. Incapable of thought, and therefor, conversation. He, as all cons, come from the population that believes pro wrestling is real. He is paid to end all rational conversation.
We should all feel sorry for ed. He is, in fact, a congenital idiot. As is anyone who believes a Libertarian, or Laissez-faire Capitalist economy exists or ever has. Anyone who believes in such a fantasy needs pity.
And talking with ed just makes him post dogma. Poor tool.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Pedro, Ed is a paid con. Needs and has no brain. Incapable of thought, and therefor, conversation. He, as all cons, come from the population that believes pro wrestling is real. He is paid to end all rational conversation.
We should all feel sorry for ed. He is, in fact, a congenital idiot. As is anyone who believes a Libertarian, or Laissez-faire Capitalist economy exists or ever has. Anyone who believes in such a fantasy needs pity.
And talking with ed just makes him post dogma. Poor tool.

dear, you lack the IQ to know what you are. You support a libNazi govt plan to take us back to the "pre industrial" stone age so you are a liberal; in fact an unusually stupid liberal.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Pedro, Ed is a paid con. Needs and has no brain. Incapable of thought, and therefor, conversation. He, as all cons, come from the population that believes pro wrestling is real. He is paid to end all rational conversation.
We should all feel sorry for ed. He is, in fact, a congenital idiot. As is anyone who believes a Libertarian, or Laissez-faire Capitalist economy exists or ever has. Anyone who believes in such a fantasy needs pity.
And talking with ed just makes him post dogma. Poor tool.

dear, you lack the IQ to know what you are. You support a libNazi govt plan to take us back to the "pre industrial" stone age so you are a liberal; in fact an unusually stupid liberal.

Every EdwardBaiamonte post ever: "dear you lack the IQ to be here because unregulated capitalism is the best and most best system ever created in the whole entire world. You are a liberal and a Nazi because you're a liberal."

Genius, he didn't say anything about pre-Industrial economics. I did. There is a sharp difference between that and the Neolithic Era. What I want is a system based on widespread, small scale capitalism with a social safety net and ample protections for the poor and powerless against exploitation by the rich and powerful. I'm done trying to explain that to you. You are apparently incapable of understanding anything except a dichotomy between Communism and corporate neofeudalism.

 

[SAYIT]

I've dealt with these arguments no less than four times today. Every time it was with a libertarian. Every time their main points were that we need to abolish the minimum wage and child labor laws, that being poor and being unemployed are synonymous, and that we can therefore fight poverty by employing as many people as possible at $4.50/hour. In other words, if you're poor then it's because you're unemployed, you're unemployed because you're too lazy to look for work, and if you didn't enjoy being poor and eating steak and lobster on your annual Caribbean cruise on our dime then you would go get a job and earn your own money.

I can't speak for the libertarians (I've never heard anyone promote the repeal of child labor laws) but I do admit I weary of the loony leftists who insist the only way to make things "fair" is to eat the rich.

 

[SAYIT]

These people could not be more out of touch with reality. I mean, who even thinks that? What reasonable person even suspects that the average welfare recipient can afford to live like a fucking multimillionaire?

Who? People who have been lucky enough to have a steady well paying job. They think that everybody could be just like them if they only tried, even though there is a limited number of those well paying jobs. If their well paying job suddenly turns to crap, they think they are being singled out for mistreatment. I've seen it more than once.

Not everyone has the marketable skills to work a "well paying job."
A long time friend - single mom with some college & 2 kids - works as much o-time as necessary to provide the kids with the little extras (hockey, dance) that most of us want for our children. When o-time wasn't available she would take a 2nd job. She drove herself to have a life - nurturing, providing for & teaching her children, maintaining strong family & friend ties and working out daily - often at the cost of sleep.
She neither sought nor accepted gov't aid and always earned a bit more than the free-riders so that this hard-working, responsible mom annually paid at least some federal personal income tax which our gov't, in all its "wisdom and justice," used to supplement the income of those who couldn't or wouldn't match her effort.
She never expects or demands that society ("the rich") provide for her and hers ... she does what is necessary to be self-sufficient.

 

[dblack]

One libertarian approach to alleviating poverty would be to end economic regulation that prevents the poor from making money. Apple Annie's unlicensed apple cart is illegal because the owners of grocery stores don't like competition. Not because she sells rotten apples.

 

[SAYIT]

That's kind of the point. What we have now is a system where the factory owner pays his workers as little as possible to crank out as much of the cheapest shit as possible so he can maximize his profits...

Do you read the silliness that rolls off your keyboard?
Companies produce that which will sell in the marketplace ... be it the "cheapest shit" or the good stuff. If it is of no value to consumers the biz will fail and paying more than the market requires for labor is just another way to fail. Businesses must find the balance between satisfying their employees and their customers while paying owners and investors a suitable ROI.

 

[Rshermr]

That's kind of the point. What we have now is a system where the factory owner pays his workers as little as possible to crank out as much of the cheapest shit as possible so he can maximize his profits...

Do you read the silliness that rolls off your keyboard?
Companies produce that which will sell in the marketplace ... be it the "cheapest shit" or the good stuff. If it is of no value to consumers the biz will fail and paying more than the market requires for labor is just another way to fail. Businesses must find the balance between satisfying their employees and their customers while paying owners and investors a suitable ROI.

Silliness??? How about looking at the real world and washing it against your market system ideal that you so desire. We have, me boy, the most unequal distribution of income of any country. And no, I am not suggesting that all incomes should be the same.
But here is something that all fair economists know, and you may not want to understand:
"This month, Berkeley economics professor Emmanuel Saez put out an update to his estimates of income inequality, and the headline figure has everybody outraged: 95% of income gains since 2009 have accrued to the top 1%.

This is indeed outrageous, but not quite for the reason that most people think.

What the 95% statistic obscures is that the last three years' recovery haven't been very good for anybody, including the rich. They've been terrible for the bottom 99%, whose incomes are barely rising at all: just 0.1% per year in real terms. But top 1% incomes are also growing more slowly than they did in the last two economic expansions. That's because the same slack labor market that holds down wages also deprives businesses of the customer base they need to invest and grow".

So, libertarians think e is nothing wrong with highly unequal income distribution. Our recent 95% for the top 1%, and 5% for the remaining 95% is fine. But what the fools miss is that is what has always killed libertarianism, and will again in our future.
Again, libertarianism never existed successfully, and never will.

 

[SAYIT]

That's kind of the point. What we have now is a system where the factory owner pays his workers as little as possible to crank out as much of the cheapest shit as possible so he can maximize his profits...

Do you read the silliness that rolls off your keyboard?
Companies produce that which will sell in the marketplace ... be it the "cheapest shit" or the good stuff. If it is of no value to consumers the biz will fail and paying more than the market requires for labor is just another way to fail. Businesses must find the balance between satisfying their employees and their customers while paying owners and investors a suitable ROI.

Silliness??? How about looking at the real world and washing it against your market system ideal that you so desire. We have, me boy, the most unequal distribution of income of any country. And no, I am not suggesting that all incomes should be the same.
But here is something that all fair economists know, and you may not want to understand:
"This month, Berkeley economics professor Emmanuel Saez put out an update to his estimates of income inequality, and the headline figure has everybody outraged: 95% of income gains since 2009 have accrued to the top 1%...

I understand that "income inequality" is the new loony left catch phrase for "eat the rich." I can't speak (nor can you) for the veracity of the Berkeley prof's findings but I can say that short-term (and 3 years is short-term) imbalances constantly occur and to use them to make that "eat the rich" argument is both disingenuous and dishonest. Gov't meddling in our labor wage market will have the same kind of damaging unintended consequences as so many of their forays into business's biz. Leftists have chased millions of jobs and billions in investment capital overseas by using our gov't to punish success but it does get some of our officials elected.

INEPTOCRACY - (Noun) a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or even try are rewarded - in exchange for their votes - with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

 

[BULLDOG]

These people could not be more out of touch with reality. I mean, who even thinks that? What reasonable person even suspects that the average welfare recipient can afford to live like a fucking multimillionaire?

Who? People who have been lucky enough to have a steady well paying job. They think that everybody could be just like them if they only tried, even though there is a limited number of those well paying jobs. If their well paying job suddenly turns to crap, they think they are being singled out for mistreatment. I've seen it more than once.

Not everyone has the marketable skills to work a "well paying job."
A long time friend - single mom with some college & 2 kids - works as much o-time as necessary to provide the kids with the little extras (hockey, dance) that most of us want for our children. When o-time wasn't available she would take a 2nd job. She drove herself to have a life - nurturing, providing for & teaching her children, maintaining strong family & friend ties and working out daily - often at the cost of sleep.
She neither sought nor accepted gov't aid and always earned a bit more than the free-riders so that this hard-working, responsible mom annually paid at least some federal personal income tax which our gov't, in all its "wisdom and justice," used to supplement the income of those who couldn't or wouldn't match her effort.
She never expects or demands that society ("the rich") provide for her and hers ... she does what is necessary to be self-sufficient.

So nice for her that jobs have always been available for her.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Let them die!!!!

 

[Likkmee]

I've dealt with these arguments no less than four times today. Every time it was with a libertarian. Every time their main points were that we need to abolish the minimum wage and child labor laws, that being poor and being unemployed are synonymous, and that we can therefore fight poverty by employing as many people as possible at $4.50/hour. In other words, if you're poor then it's because you're unemployed, you're unemployed because you're too lazy to look for work, and if you didn't enjoy being poor and eating steak and lobster on your annual Caribbean cruise on our dime then you would go get a job and earn your own money.

There's always plan T.

 

[Meathead]

I've dealt with these arguments no less than four times today. Every time it was with a libertarian. Every time their main points were that we need to abolish the minimum wage and child labor laws, that being poor and being unemployed are synonymous, and that we can therefore fight poverty by employing as many people as possible at $4.50/hour. In other words, if you're poor then it's because you're unemployed, you're unemployed because you're too lazy to look for work, and if you didn't enjoy being poor and eating steak and lobster on your annual Caribbean cruise on our dime then you would go get a job and earn your own money.

In addition to stop being poor, there's alway GET A JOB. Never thought of that, eh?

 

[SAYIT]

These people could not be more out of touch with reality. I mean, who even thinks that? What reasonable person even suspects that the average welfare recipient can afford to live like a fucking multimillionaire?

Who? People who have been lucky enough to have a steady well paying job. They think that everybody could be just like them if they only tried, even though there is a limited number of those well paying jobs. If their well paying job suddenly turns to crap, they think they are being singled out for mistreatment. I've seen it more than once.

Not everyone has the marketable skills to work a "well paying job."
A long time friend - single mom with some college & 2 kids - works as much o-time as necessary to provide the kids with the little extras (hockey, dance) that most of us want for our children. When o-time wasn't available she would take a 2nd job. She drove herself to have a life - nurturing, providing for & teaching her children, maintaining strong family & friend ties and working out daily - often at the cost of sleep.
She neither sought nor accepted gov't aid and always earned a bit more than the free-riders so that this hard-working, responsible mom annually paid at least some federal personal income tax which our gov't, in all its "wisdom and justice," used to supplement the income of those who couldn't or wouldn't match her effort.
She never expects or demands that society ("the rich") provide for her and hers ... she does what is necessary to be self-sufficient.

So nice for her that jobs have always been available for her.

That's what you found most significant about my friend's story? Woo.

Millions of everyday Americans make the same sacrifices she has in order to provide without direct gov't aid ... no welfare, no unemployment comp, no food stamps. As a reward she has for years been required to help pay for those who don't (or won't) make those sacrifices. It seems the idiotlogical left is determined to maintain a dependent class willing to sell their votes to the party that gives them the most freebies.

INEPTOCRACY - (Noun) a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or even try are rewarded - in exchange for their votes - with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.