Is there a place of eternal punishment?

I believe the references to such a place is symbolism in Gods written word. That the lake of fire( eternal destruction) = the second death( no life in death) Jesus taught those who walk the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction.
Also when one knows the true God, they know it cannot be a truthful teaching. Here is what Gods written word teaches about who the true God is.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- All of Gods ways are justice--- God taught us all that justice-- an eye for an eye--- a balanced set of scales, God applies to all decisions. Lets apply this teaching to Gods scales.

On one side--70-90 years of unrepented sin ------- on the other side- trillions x trillions x trillions etc, of never ending years of punishment.

See any balance--NO-- not Gods scales--thus a sadistic lie taught about the true God by teachers of darkness.


That there is a second death implies that there is a first one. The first death is as a consequence to defying the commands of God, the death that so many here so perfectly display. The second death would be the death of the body, physical death.

Hell, Gehenna, the place of eternal condemnation, is a state of mind exclusive to the physically alive but spiritually dead. If a person rises from the spiritually dead before their body dies the second death, which is death of the body, physical death will not harm them, they will never know what it is to die.

If a person does not rise to life from the spiritually dead while they are alive, when their body dies the second death they will be judged according to their words and deeds.

Think of eternal condemnation like this; There will never be a time when filling your mind with irrational nonsense will result in anything other than confusion, death. There will never be a time when God would approve of people teaching confusion. To God such teaching will forever bee condemned as the vile and contaminating flesh of unclean beasts. It has always been and shall will always be this way. People come and go, but this place of confusion and state of condemnation, death, remains but only torments people who teach and believe preposterous things that they never sought proof of and can only result in confusion....

Hell will vanish and Satan will disappear from the earth as soon as people stop being gullible.......

Hell shall be cast into the Lake of Fire where Satan also is due to be cast in the future but the torment of the damned shall be for all eternity, Hobelim. Do not be deceived, whatsover a man sows that shall he reap. If he reaps to the flesh he shall reap corruption and if he sows to the Spirit he shall have everlasting life. Where a soul goes is determined by whom they serve. Those who are Christs have crucified the lusts of their flesh and walk according to the Spirit. Jesus warned the Jewish religious leaders that while Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were enjoying heaven they themselves would be shut outside. Why? Because they rejected the LORD. That is why. Do not be like them. Do not be foolish. Jesus is Yeshua Ha'Maschiah. The one who is coming who claims to be the Messiah will be the false one sent to deceive the world. Don't believe that liar.

Gods word teaches--Hades will be cast into the lake of fire--Hades( greek) = Hebrew- sheol-- both translate--the common grave.
Death will also be cast into the lake of fire--eternally destroyed. Neither hades or death can suffer, but can both be destroyed eternally.
I showed you what Gods word teaches about the true God-- believe it--He is a God of love, merciful--he could never make any suffer eternally--it is a lie, --it was all symbolic.
 
I believe the references to such a place is symbolism in Gods written word. That the lake of fire( eternal destruction) = the second death( no life in death) Jesus taught those who walk the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction.

If the dead shall be raised incorruptible (1 Cor. 15:52) and if the mortal shall put on immortality (1 Cor. 15:54) and if death is swallowed up in victory, how will the dead be annihilated if they are immortal?

1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

Their bodies are awakened to everlasting contempt.

Jesus said,"I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore [eis tous aionas ton aionon] (Rev. 1:17-18, NASB).

Revelation 20:10: "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon]."

What you need to explain is how the same verse is used the same way but means different things as if one translation means 'eternal' and the other doesn't. If you translate the same passage one way then you have to be consistent and translate the other passage the same way and it just wouldn't make sense to translate it another way because there are so many verses in the Bible which would refute that God isn't eternal. That is the point all scholars were trying to point out to us.

Not one of these translations translates "aionion" as anything other than "eternal" or similar.

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"Then the king will say to those on his left, 'Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels!

King James Bible
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

American Standard Version
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

Bible in Basic English
Then will he say to those on the left, Go from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which is ready for the Evil One and his angels:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels.

Darby Bible Translation
Then shall he say also to those on the left, Go from me, cursed, into eternal fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

English Revised Version
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

Tyndale New Testament
Then shall the king say unto them that shall be on the left hand: depart from me ye cursed, into everlasting fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels.

Weymouth New Testament
"Then will He say to those at His left, "'Begone from me, with the curse resting upon you, into the Fire of the Ages, which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels.

Webster's Bible Translation
Then will he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

World English Bible
Then he will say also to those on the left hand,'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;

Young's Literal Translation
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

I could quote the New World Translation that the Jehovah's Witnesses use but that is taking the discussion to the next level.

Matthew 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Annihilation is an end to payment or forgiveness of debt but burning in hell is what is referred to as not forgiving.

Isaiah 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The sinner in hell is compared to an undying worm and not a dieing worm.

And just because you refer to death doesn't mean we exactly know what death means:

David F. Wells discusses the wide range of meanings of the above three Biblical words:

Sinners are ‘cut off’ (Ps. 37:9, 22, 28, 34, 38), but so is the Messiah (Dan. 9:26); sinners are ‘destroyed’ (Ps. 143:12), but so was Israel (Hos. 13:9; cf. Isa. 9:14) and so were the sheep and coins that were then found (Luke 15:4, 8); unbelievers are said to ‘die,’ but then all of us have always been ‘dead’ (Rom. 6:13; 7:4; Eph. 2:1, 5; cf. Rom. 7:10, 13; 8:2, 6; I Tim. 5:6; Col. 2:13; Rev. 3:1), and that surely does not mean we have been without existence and consciousness. (42).

Rev 22:11 "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy."

At the judgment, it says they will keep on sinning "still do wrong" and you can't still do wrong if you are annihilated. I know this is the NASB and not the King James but the definitions for the King James in the Blue Letter Bible support the way it was translated in the NASB even though the King James translators didn't bring out the meaning.

Psalm 22:6 But I [am] a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

David or this messianic passage is applied to a person meaning that the worm is symbolic of a person.

Mark 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The sinner is compared to a worm that "dieth not". He isn't compared to a worm that dies.



Gods justice scales prove what is what. It was all symbolism for eternally being cut off from God--eternally destroyed. ezekial 18:4--
 
I believe the references to such a place is symbolism in Gods written word. That the lake of fire( eternal destruction) = the second death( no life in death) Jesus taught those who walk the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction.
Also when one knows the true God, they know it cannot be a truthful teaching. Here is what Gods written word teaches about who the true God is.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- All of Gods ways are justice--- God taught us all that justice-- an eye for an eye--- a balanced set of scales, God applies to all decisions. Lets apply this teaching to Gods scales.

On one side--70-90 years of unrepented sin ------- on the other side- trillions x trillions x trillions etc, of never ending years of punishment.

See any balance--NO-- not Gods scales--thus a sadistic lie taught about the true God by teachers of darkness.

You think it is about justice but really it is about vengeance:

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Another reason to punish you is just because you did spiritually doesn't mean you cease to be living. You can live in hell and still sin and sin is also eternal so it has to be punished eternally. The other reason you punish sin eternally is to teach people not to sin.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Those who do not believe in hell have a serious problem with this verse. Those who believe you have to wait until the white throne judgment to be judged have a serious problem too. Abideth means:

Greek Lexicon :: G3306 (KJV)

1) to remain, abide

a) in reference to place

1) to sojourn, tarry

2) not to depart

a) to continue to be present

b) to be held, kept, continually

b) in reference to time

1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure

a) of persons, to survive, live

c) in reference to state or condition

1) to remain as one, not to become another or different

2) to wait for, await one


And that is my teaching.

I'll have to rep you, Chuck, for abiding study. Very good. Did not give much thought to the idea of God's wrath in the matter of hell but there is evidence to back that up.. 2 Thessalonians 1: 6 was one of my first experiences with God literally letting me know ahead of time something he was about to do to someone who caused me trouble. It happened and it scared me! At first I didn't believe it was the Lord, I said, if that is you, Lord, you will have to show me in scripture first! I believe it was the same day he gave me Psalm 37: 17 and I was in awe! That was exactly what happened to them too. I was not happy to hear of it at all, I felt sorry for them because they truly were clueless about God and his ways. I am just grateful they didn't die and bust hell wide open that day. It could have been much worse for them.

For those who are wondering what 2 Thessalonians 1: 16 is : Seeing it is a righteous thing to recompense tribulation upon them that trouble you.

It fits perfectly with another warning, touch not mine anointed..... some folks just have to learn the hard way.. I think it is the grace of God when he brings someone to the realization that they are running into a brick wall though.
 
I believe the references to such a place is symbolism in Gods written word. That the lake of fire( eternal destruction) = the second death( no life in death) Jesus taught those who walk the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction.
Also when one knows the true God, they know it cannot be a truthful teaching. Here is what Gods written word teaches about who the true God is.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- All of Gods ways are justice--- God taught us all that justice-- an eye for an eye--- a balanced set of scales, God applies to all decisions. Lets apply this teaching to Gods scales.

On one side--70-90 years of unrepented sin ------- on the other side- trillions x trillions x trillions etc, of never ending years of punishment.

See any balance--NO-- not Gods scales--thus a sadistic lie taught about the true God by teachers of darkness.

You think it is about justice but really it is about vengeance:

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Another reason to punish you is just because you did spiritually doesn't mean you cease to be living. You can live in hell and still sin and sin is also eternal so it has to be punished eternally. The other reason you punish sin eternally is to teach people not to sin.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Those who do not believe in hell have a serious problem with this verse. Those who believe you have to wait until the white throne judgment to be judged have a serious problem too. Abideth means:

Greek Lexicon :: G3306 (KJV)

1) to remain, abide

a) in reference to place

1) to sojourn, tarry

2) not to depart

a) to continue to be present

b) to be held, kept, continually

b) in reference to time

1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure

a) of persons, to survive, live

c) in reference to state or condition

1) to remain as one, not to become another or different

2) to wait for, await one


And that is my teaching.




Yes the world will see Gods wrath( vengeance) but one still has to apply Deuteronomy 32:4--All of Gods ways are justice--that means even in his wrath--his balanced justice scales would be in every decision. An eternal torment place is not literal--
 
Yes the world will see Gods wrath( vengeance) but one still has to apply Deuteronomy 32:4--All of Gods ways are justice--that means even in his wrath--his balanced justice scales would be in every decision. An eternal torment place is not literal--

Jesus suffered divine retribution so lost people should too because that is fair. God is infinite so if you sin against a Holy and just God then the price is infinite because God puts a higher value on Himself.

Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

Man was made in the image of God and God will not annihilate man because then He would be guilty of the same sin He holds man accountable for.

Wrath of God defined
Researched by Chuckt

"(1:18) The apostle now speaks of the wrath of God inasmuch as 'the revelation of the righteousness of God (v.17) is needed in view of the revelation of His wrath, from which only God's righteousness (whether it be His justifying sentence or the righteousness He bestows on man) can deliver' (Denney). 'Wrath' is orge. The word is used of God's wrath in Matthew 3:7, Romans 1:17, 12:19, and is defined by Trench as 'a wrath of God who would not love good unless He hated evil, the two being inseparable, that He must do both or neither.' It is used of our Lord when, after healing the man with the withered hand, He observed the hardness of heart of the Pharisees, and looked upon them with anger (Mk. 3:5). Orge is an anger 'which righteous men not merely may, but as they are righteous, must feel; nor can there be a surer and sadder token of an utterly prostrate moral condition than the not being to be angry with sin--and sinners' (Trench). Vincent describes orge as God's personal emotion with regard to sin. It represents God's abhorrence and hatred of sin."1

(There is more of the definition here which supports this translation.)

"Translation: For there is revealed God's wrath from heaven upon every lack of reverence and (every) unrighteousness of men who the truth in unrighteousness are holding down."2

1 Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, Volume 1, Kenneth Wuest, Eerdmans, p. 28-29
 
Yes the world will see Gods wrath( vengeance) but one still has to apply Deuteronomy 32:4--All of Gods ways are justice--that means even in his wrath--his balanced justice scales would be in every decision. An eternal torment place is not literal--

I've been reading "Word Studies in the Greek New Testament" (Volume III) by Dr. Kenneth Wuest who was one of the NASB translators and was also a professor of Greek.

He quotes Moulton and Milligan's "Vocabulary of the Greek Testament", Grimm-Thayer, Webster's International Dictionary, Biblico-Theological Lexicon of New Testament Gree, by Herman Cremer, D.D., the LXX, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament by Joseph Henry Thayer, D.D., Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon (classical).

Wuest says "Matthew 25:41 tells us that this everlasting fire is prepared for the devil and his angels. The word 'prepared' in the Greek is in the perfect tense, which tense speaks of a past complete action that has present results."-p.40 (second section of books bundled together in one book)

Wuest also writes "As to Mark 3:29, the best Greek texts have 'sin' instead of 'damnation,' which latter word appears in the A.V., as translation of a Greek word meaning 'judgment," and which is a rejected reading. The words 'in danger of' are from a Greek word which refers to anyone 'held in anything so that he cannot escape.' Thus the one who committed the sin referred to in this passage in the grasp of an eternal sin, the sin being eternal, not in the sense of eternally repeating itself, but in that it is eternal in its guilt. Such a sin demands eternal punishment. In II Thessalonians 1:9 we have 'everlasting destruction.' The Greek word translated 'destruction' does not mean 'annihilation.' Moulton and Milligan define its first century Biblical usage as follows: 'ruin, the loss of all that gives worth to existence.' Thayer in his lexicon gives the meanings 'ruin, destruction, death.' The word comes from the verb meaning 'to destroy.' But to destroy something does not mean to put it out of existence, but to ruin it, to reduce it to such form that it loses all that gave worth to its existence. One may burn down a beautiful mansion. The materials which composed it are still in existence, a heap of ashes, but it is in such form that it has lost all that gave worth to its existence as a mansion. The eternal condition in which the soul lives forever in a state devoid of all that makes existence worthwhile."-p. 41
 
Gods word teaches--Hades will be cast into the lake of fire--Hades( greek) = Hebrew- sheol-- both translate--the common grave.
Death will also be cast into the lake of fire--eternally destroyed. Neither hades or death can suffer, but can both be destroyed eternally.
I showed you what Gods word teaches about the true God-- believe it--He is a God of love, merciful--he could never make any suffer eternally--it is a lie, --it was all symbolic.

"For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption."
(Psalm 16:10)

The same verse is quoted by Peter so sheol and hades are used interchangeably:

"For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption."
(Acts 2:27)

There are two problems with the idea that we stay in the grave when we die. The first one is (1):

'Therefore He says:
"When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men."
(Now this, "He ascended"-what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?"
(Ephesians 4:8-9)

The second one is:

"...absent from the body...present with the Lord."
(2 Corinthians 5:8)

The previous verse in Ephesians 4:8-9 says that He (Jesus) ascended.

We can't be in the grave if Jesus ascended because we're supposed to be absent from the body which is asleep in the grave and we're supposed to be present with the Lord who ascended. Some have tried to accomodoate the idea that the compartment called Abraham's bosom was God's throne room.

A-2 Noun Strong's Number: g161 Greek: aichmalosia

Quote:
Captive, Captivity:

"captivity," the abstract noun in contrast to No. 1, the concrete, is found in Rev 13:10; Eph 4:8, where "He led captivity captive" (marg., "a multitude of captives") seems to be an allusion to the triumphal procession by which a victory was celebrated, the "captives" taken forming part of the procession. See Jdg 5:12. The quotation is from Psa 68:18, and probably is a forceful expression for Christ's victory, through His Death, over the hostile powers of darkness. An alternative suggestion is that at His Ascension Christ transferred the redeemed Old Testament saints from Sheol to His own presence in glory.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words

Revelation 20:14 And 2532 death 2288 and 2532 hell 86 were cast 906 into 1519 the lake 3041 of fire 4442. This 3778 is 2076 the second 1208 death 2288.

Hell (86) is not the same word as lake (3041) and fire (4442).

Hell in the old testament (H7585) is transliterated Sheowl and it means the grave. Hell is eternal but the grave is thought of as the earth. The earth's crust is probably 2 to 20 miles deep and we know with volcanoes what is underneath. The first earth will be passed away so there will be need of a new hell. Whether you interpret it to be a new hell or Gehenna, the problem is that the term "passed away" (g3928 παρέρχομαι parerchomai) indicates "to perish":

Revelation 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Hell is eternal as we will see but Jesus said "I am alive forevermore" and they are the same words translated "forever and ever". If some versions translate God as everlasting then you have no choice but to translate hell as being everlasting because the different translations use the same words for both hell and God. Since the old heavens and the earth will pass away, the old location of hell will be passed away or thrown into the new location which is the lake of fire.

Jesus said,"I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore [eis tous aionas ton aionon] (Rev. 1:17-18, NASB).

Revelation 20:10: "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon]."

Not one of these translations translates "aionion" as anything other than "eternal" or similar.

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Death and hell delivered up the dead. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire indicating that it isn't the same location.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The people in hell were then cast into the lake of fire indicating a different position.


Quote:
"Verse 5: 'But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.'

"The 'resurrection of the just' is mentioned in Luke 14:13-14, and the 'resurrection of life' is definitely distinguished from the 'resurrection unto damnation' in John 5:29. Here in Revelation 20:5 we learn for the first time the interval that separates the two resurrections: One thousand years. When Jesus comes in the Rapture, only the righteous will be raised (I Thess. 4:13:18).

"When He comes in the end of the ages, only the wicked will be raised and will appear before the great White Throne to be judged. The doctrine of a general resurrection- a time when the good and bad, just and unjust are raised-is certainly disproved by this text. In John 5:28-29 we read, 'Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

-p.487, The Revelation, Verse by Verse Study, The Gospel Hour, Inc., Dr. Oliver B. Green.


Quote:
"The throne set up in Matthew 25:31 is not the great White Throne of Revelation 20:11. The former was set up before the Millennium, and the parties judged there will be living persons on earth-the sheep and the goat nations. The great White Throne judgment is set up to reward all the wicked dead according to their wickedness. The judgment in Matthew 25:31 has to do with nations; the great White Throne judgment has to do with individuals."
-p.498, ibid.

Now do you understand?
 
This thread is downright depressing.


no worry for the true believers, just another example of the written Bible used to circumvent the True Path of Remittance to the Everlasting by a freed Spirit ... :eusa_shhh: by those who believe reading is the way to reach Heaven.

.
 
This thread is downright depressing.


no worry for the true believers, just another example of the written Bible used to circumvent the True Path of Remittance to the Everlasting by a freed Spirit ... :eusa_shhh: by those who believe reading is the way to reach Heaven.

.

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

The N.I.V. Bible is really a thought for thought translation or paraphrase. The correct rendering is "word".

John 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
 
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It fits perfectly with another warning, touch not mine anointed..... some folks just have to learn the hard way.. I think it is the grace of God when he brings someone to the realization that they are running into a brick wall though.

I'll have to look that one up but I think that verse is about kings and not preachers but it is not on my important list of things to do.

http://www.rbc.org.nz/library/anointed.htm

http://www.letusreason.org/Pent47.htm

http://www.watchman.org/reltop/acctblty.htm

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...n_that_Abusive_Pastors_Cant_be_Challenged.htm

http://thelasthiker.wordpress.com/2013/05/25/the-do-not-touch-the-lords-anointed-lie/

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/touchnot.html

And I like this one for some reason:

THE PREACHER THAT TROUBLES OR CONFUSES GOD’S SHEEP IS “TOUCHING THE LORD’S ANOINTED,” not the other way around.

http://www.wickedshepherds.com/touchnotthelordsanointed.html

There are a few more links on the net and at least one example in my library.
 
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This thread is downright depressing.


no worry for the true believers, just another example of the written Bible used to circumvent the True Path of Remittance to the Everlasting by a freed Spirit ... :eusa_shhh: by those who believe reading is the way to reach Heaven.

.

John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

The N.I.V. Bible is really a thought for thought translation or paraphrase. The correct rendering is "word".

John 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;



:eusa_hand: when what is written in the beginning is corrupt, Genesis what further is there to read ?



"If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples".


. . . "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani" - - - My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me


.
 
:eusa_hand: when what is written in the beginning is corrupt, Genesis what further is there to read ?

I don't think it is corrupt. The current day attitudes and understandings are corrupt though.

I didn't pay too well attention in my first seven years as a Christian and wanted to just live like everybody else (in a good way) but then I stepped out in faith and God just started speaking to me in His word and it happened the next day and the next day and the next day that I couldn't call it a coincidence anymore.

 
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There are over 400 bible scriptures referencing hell in the Old Testament and the New. Hell is a literal place. Located in the center of the earth. Paradise used to be located within seeing distance ( in center of earth but above it ) and when Jesus went into the belly of the earth and took the keys to hell and death he released those in Paradise to later go with him him into heaven. Paradise is now empty of his people and used by Satan for his own captives. Hell enlarges itself also as more and more are going there every day. Millions upon millions going to hell, imagine it. It is enough to keep you up at night. In fact, it should, Pacer.

As to the scriptures on the dead being below the earth - see 1 Samuel 28: 7 - 20 - you will notice when the Witch of Endor called up Samuel he came up out of the earth in spirit form to speak to Saul - he did tell Saul that he would die and that he would be with him down there - so we know God did show mercy to Saul... Later in Luke 16: 19 - 31 you see the account Jesus gives about the rich man and Lazarus who is in the bosom of Abraham - there is a gulf between hell and paradise yet the rich man is asking Lazarus for a drop of water so we know it wasn't too far off.. still one side could not go to the other...

It is written:

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich mans table, moreoever the dogs came and licked his sores.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom, the rich man also died, and was buried, and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

And besides all this between you and I there is a great gulf fixed. so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot, neither can they pass to us, that would come from hence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father , that thou wouldest send him, to my father's house. For I have five brothers that he may testify unto them, let they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham, but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. - Luke 16: 19 - 31

Do you know why Jesus told this story? Because Moses and the prophets knew about hell - some of them had visions of heaven and hell - perhaps all - we know Isaiah did, David must have, Ezekiel did, many have seen visions of heaven and hell and now in the end days we see accounts from many people having visions of heaven and hell and dreams as well. Even in their near death experiences visions of hell!

It is written:

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.. and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. - Joel 2: 28,29

Yes, what hasn't God done for us to warn us about this place! And still we are having a debate over whether or not there is an eternal place of punishment! It is right under our very feet! In the center of the earth! How much more should men tremble at the thought of not being ready to die tonight! If you were to die tonight do you know where you would be? Would you know you would be in heaven? Do you realize that you can know that? You can escape hell? Yes! Jesus Christ paid the price! Read Romans 10: 8 - 15 and do not neglect so great a salvation, people! Wake up for heavens sakes!!!

Absurd.
 
This thread is downright depressing.

That would indicate that you are realizing apart from Christ there is no hope. The obvious solution to that is to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved, Flopper.

It is written:

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. - John 6: 29

Why did Jesus say that? You cannot "work your way into heaven", you cannot be a "nice person and do good things" - and ignore the way to salvation. Jesus said, I am the bread of life, he that cometh to me shall never hunger and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. - John 6: 35

Jesus Christ came to give us life more abundant, not to depress us. Satan is the one who has come to steal, kill and destroy. The spirit of suicide and depression lingering over America right now is downright unbelievable! This nation needs to be revived! The only one who can revive it is God!
 
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There are over 400 bible scriptures referencing hell in the Old Testament and the New. Hell is a literal place. Located in the center of the earth. Paradise used to be located within seeing distance ( in center of earth but above it ) and when Jesus went into the belly of the earth and took the keys to hell and death he released those in Paradise to later go with him him into heaven. Paradise is now empty of his people and used by Satan for his own captives. Hell enlarges itself also as more and more are going there every day. Millions upon millions going to hell, imagine it. It is enough to keep you up at night. In fact, it should, Pacer.

As to the scriptures on the dead being below the earth - see 1 Samuel 28: 7 - 20 - you will notice when the Witch of Endor called up Samuel he came up out of the earth in spirit form to speak to Saul - he did tell Saul that he would die and that he would be with him down there - so we know God did show mercy to Saul... Later in Luke 16: 19 - 31 you see the account Jesus gives about the rich man and Lazarus who is in the bosom of Abraham - there is a gulf between hell and paradise yet the rich man is asking Lazarus for a drop of water so we know it wasn't too far off.. still one side could not go to the other...

It is written:

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich mans table, moreoever the dogs came and licked his sores.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom, the rich man also died, and was buried, and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

And besides all this between you and I there is a great gulf fixed. so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot, neither can they pass to us, that would come from hence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father , that thou wouldest send him, to my father's house. For I have five brothers that he may testify unto them, let they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham, but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. - Luke 16: 19 - 31

Do you know why Jesus told this story? Because Moses and the prophets knew about hell - some of them had visions of heaven and hell - perhaps all - we know Isaiah did, David must have, Ezekiel did, many have seen visions of heaven and hell and now in the end days we see accounts from many people having visions of heaven and hell and dreams as well. Even in their near death experiences visions of hell!

It is written:

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.. and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. - Joel 2: 28,29

Yes, what hasn't God done for us to warn us about this place! And still we are having a debate over whether or not there is an eternal place of punishment! It is right under our very feet! In the center of the earth! How much more should men tremble at the thought of not being ready to die tonight! If you were to die tonight do you know where you would be? Would you know you would be in heaven? Do you realize that you can know that? You can escape hell? Yes! Jesus Christ paid the price! Read Romans 10: 8 - 15 and do not neglect so great a salvation, people! Wake up for heavens sakes!!!

Absurd.

Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. Nevertheless, it is still the truth.
 
There are over 400 bible scriptures referencing hell in the Old Testament and the New. Hell is a literal place. Located in the center of the earth. Paradise used to be located within seeing distance ( in center of earth but above it ) and when Jesus went into the belly of the earth and took the keys to hell and death he released those in Paradise to later go with him him into heaven. Paradise is now empty of his people and used by Satan for his own captives. Hell enlarges itself also as more and more are going there every day. Millions upon millions going to hell, imagine it. It is enough to keep you up at night. In fact, it should, Pacer.

As to the scriptures on the dead being below the earth - see 1 Samuel 28: 7 - 20 - you will notice when the Witch of Endor called up Samuel he came up out of the earth in spirit form to speak to Saul - he did tell Saul that he would die and that he would be with him down there - so we know God did show mercy to Saul... Later in Luke 16: 19 - 31 you see the account Jesus gives about the rich man and Lazarus who is in the bosom of Abraham - there is a gulf between hell and paradise yet the rich man is asking Lazarus for a drop of water so we know it wasn't too far off.. still one side could not go to the other...

It is written:

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich mans table, moreoever the dogs came and licked his sores.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom, the rich man also died, and was buried, and in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things, but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

And besides all this between you and I there is a great gulf fixed. so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot, neither can they pass to us, that would come from hence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father , that thou wouldest send him, to my father's house. For I have five brothers that he may testify unto them, let they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham, but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. - Luke 16: 19 - 31

Do you know why Jesus told this story? Because Moses and the prophets knew about hell - some of them had visions of heaven and hell - perhaps all - we know Isaiah did, David must have, Ezekiel did, many have seen visions of heaven and hell and now in the end days we see accounts from many people having visions of heaven and hell and dreams as well. Even in their near death experiences visions of hell!

It is written:

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.. and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. - Joel 2: 28,29

Yes, what hasn't God done for us to warn us about this place! And still we are having a debate over whether or not there is an eternal place of punishment! It is right under our very feet! In the center of the earth! How much more should men tremble at the thought of not being ready to die tonight! If you were to die tonight do you know where you would be? Would you know you would be in heaven? Do you realize that you can know that? You can escape hell? Yes! Jesus Christ paid the price! Read Romans 10: 8 - 15 and do not neglect so great a salvation, people! Wake up for heavens sakes!!!

Absurd.

Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes. Nevertheless, it is still the truth.

No, it's not "truth", it's theory, and a pretty silly one. Right up there with monsters under the bed -- anthropomorphizing mysteries we don't understand and inventing a scapegoat, then pointing to what we just invented and declaring "he did it".

The truth is, proving the existence of Satan is the same challenge as proving the existence of God. Can't be done.
 
I believe the references to such a place is symbolism in Gods written word. That the lake of fire( eternal destruction) = the second death( no life in death) Jesus taught those who walk the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction.
Also when one knows the true God, they know it cannot be a truthful teaching. Here is what Gods written word teaches about who the true God is.

Deuteronomy 32:4-- All of Gods ways are justice--- God taught us all that justice-- an eye for an eye--- a balanced set of scales, God applies to all decisions. Lets apply this teaching to Gods scales.

On one side--70-90 years of unrepented sin ------- on the other side- trillions x trillions x trillions etc, of never ending years of punishment.

See any balance--NO-- not Gods scales--thus a sadistic lie taught about the true God by teachers of darkness.

And this garbage is supposed to help you avoid it? It's time to grow up.
 
Jesus would laugh pretty hard if he were alive today...other than the fact that he would be thousands of years old and likely riddled with absurd health problems.
 

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