Is "Water" a Human Right?

[jasonnfree]

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

yo Contumacious.....Detroit is not located on Lake Michigan....

if water was a commodity how would we deal with the Great Lakes.....? Canada uses them too....

bottle them

Maybe the koch criminals can help pay the detroit water bill since they park their tar sands there right off the detroit river. Pollution? So what, profit before people at all times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/18/b...nds-rises-in-detroit.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Sallow]

Anything we decide is a right, is a right.

Nonsense.

Rights are things you have by virtue of being human. The only thing they get for you, is that no one can take them away. But there is no right that people have to put in effort to give you. That includes medical care, a job, food... and water.

You have a right to life. That means no one is allowed to murder you. But it doesn't mean you automatically get the things you need to sustain life (food, water, shelter, medical care etc.). You still have to seek those out and obtain them for yourself.

Clear now?

Looks like you just made the argument in favor of abortion!

Basically.

 

[Sallow]

ahhhh a threat ---finally.

No threat at all.

I'm one of the haves.

So really the operative question here is "Should we take care of the have nots so they don't get restless" ?

The pragmatic answer for those without morals is yes.

The answer to those with morals is yes.

The answer to greedy self absorbed dumbfucks is turn off the water and watch as crime and revolution come.

 

[Sallow]

The only reason to live in the sort of groups humans live in is to share responsibilities and resources.

Otherwise? There is no reason for a government.

None.

You folks are so set on deconstructing the very fabric of society, you really should try the alternative first.

Go into the wilderness, naked, and try to survive for a week.

Let us all know how it works out for you.

Does this sociology experiment include naked women, and an icebreaker cocktail hour?

.

If it does..I'm in.

 

[hipeter924]

Human beings can't live without it, so yes.

Since it is almost everywhere....Why not?

The complaint is really the fact that some govts aren't providing free water to people.

But the thing is the water isn't free, whether it is paid through taxes or by fees to private companies. There is no evidence a private company would be more efficient than Enron was though, as often water and electricity has to be subsidized just to keep it affordable.

 

[boedicca]

Read the article, all the way to the end, (I think it is nearing the end where I read it)...it says that those on public assistance qualify for the program to help pay their water bill, but those not on public assistance have to meet these mountainous, and some times fictitious mountainous qualifications, that make it harder for them to get help.

I note the irony here. Water distribution is a monopoly enabled by government. The answer is not more government control in handing out water.

Monopolies are a natural outcome of economies of scale. They aren't very common. Ologopolies are far mre common. The government enabled monopolies are patents. That is done to give inventors the opportunity to benefit from their efforts.

This is all patently obvious.

No it's not. But what is patently obvious is that you are an economic moron.

It's very difficult to obtain and hold a natural monopoly. Most monopolies are enabled by government cronyism (cf, water distribution systems, local cable service).

It's not a coincidence that mega corporations pursue regulatory capture in order to prevent smaller competitors from growing.

 

[boedicca]

Human beings can't live without it, so yes.

Since it is almost everywhere....Why not?

How much of that water is potable and available without the efforts of someone else to purify and distribute it?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The only reason to live in the sort of groups humans live in is to share responsibilities and resources.

Otherwise? There is no reason for a government.

None.

You folks are so set on deconstructing the very fabric of society, you really should try the alternative first.

Go into the wilderness, naked, and try to survive for a week.

Let us all know how it works out for you.

Our constitutions main concern is protecting its citizens. It enumerates that. Its not my responsibility to clothe, feed, or provide shelter for you. That responsibility falls upon you.

No pepsi challenge for you eh?

Thought so.

Hey, what was the missing letter in pepsi cola everyone was looking for back in the 80's? Was it the I?

 

[Care4all]

Human beings can't live without it, so yes.

Since it is almost everywhere....Why not?

The complaint is really the fact that some govts aren't providing free water to people.

the complaint is, that the gvt is shutting off the water of its citizens that have fallen 2 months behind on paying their water bill because they could not afford it, while NOT going after the commercial business that did not pay their bills, who accounted for 50% of the delinquent amount of money, FIRST.

And the issue is, that Detroit's water prices are DOUBLE what the Nation's average water prices are..... and these people at the lowest end of the income scale, can not afford the prices the government is charging for it...and have fallen behind a couple of months.

Detroit has a water problem alright, but it ain't these poorest among us who can't afford their very high prices causing the problem, it is the city gvt. of Detroit itself.

 

[dilloduck]

Human beings can't live without it, so yes.

Since it is almost everywhere....Why not?

The complaint is really the fact that some govts aren't providing free water to people.

the complaint is, that the gvt is shutting off the water of its citizens that have fallen 2 months behind on paying their water bill because they could not afford it, while NOT going after the commercial business that did not pay their bills, who accounted for 50% of the delinquent amount of money, FIRST.

And the issue is, that Detroit's water prices are DOUBLE what the Nation's average water prices are..... and these people at the lowest end of the income scale, can not afford the prices the government is charging for it...and have fallen behind a couple of months.

Detroit has a water problem alright, but it ain't these poorest among us who can't afford their very high prices causing the problem, it is the city gvt. of Detroit itself.

exactly--that's what people have been saying----the GOVT is corrupt as hell and the so called water problem is a result of the people they elected.

 

[itfitzme]

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

The best I can tell from the website is that the Detroit Water and Sewage District pays for it. Detroit Water and Sewerage Department - Home Page

The mistake is this idea that you pay for things by virtue of having paid taxes. What you pay are your taxes. The government pays for whatever the gov't pays for.

By this ridiculous concept of "inherited payment", that you buy groceries and the grocery store pays wages to an employee who buys beer at the local liquor store owned by someone that buy meth, you've paid for the meth. The problem with this entire notion is that by this reasoning, everyone in the world is therefore paying for everything. It really is meanningless. And it is notable that it is applied selectively, when it benefits the person using it. It doesn't seem to get applied as "I owe money because ....."

When you go to the store and buy milk, you have paid for the milk. What happens after that isn't attributable to you.

When you pay taxes, what you pay for is...well...you don't pay for anything. Paying taxes doesn't come with any guarantee that you will get anything in return. Nowhere is there anything written that you get anything.

There are other lines of reasoning by which we account for the distribution of scarce resources in economics. None of these macro-economic concepts relies on assigning the cost in one part of the economy to specific individuals in another. You may like the concept when it leads to the conclusion you want. But the idea is patently absurd on inspection.

 

[dilloduck]

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

The best I can tell from the website is that the Detroit Water and Sewage District pays for it. Detroit Water and Sewerage Department - Home Page

The mistake is this idea that you pay for things by virtue of having paid taxes. What you pay are your taxes. The government pays for whatever the gov't pays for.

By this ridiculous concept of "inherited payment", that you buy groceries and the grocery store pays wages to an employee who buys beer at the local liquor store owned by someone that buy meth, you've paid for the meth. The problem with this entire notion is that by this reasoning, everyone in the world is therefore paying for everything. It really is meanningless. And it is notable that it is applied selectively, when it benefits the person using it. It doesn't seem to get applied as "I owe money because ....."

When you go to the store and buy milk, you have paid for the milk. What happens after that isn't attributable to you.

When you pay taxes, what you pay for is...well...you don't pay for anything. Paying taxes doesn't come with any guarantee that you will get anything in return. Nowhere is there anything written that you get anything.

There are other lines of reasoning by which we account for the distribution of scarce resources in economics. None of these macro-economic concepts relies on assigning the cost in one part of the economy to specific individuals in another. You may like the concept when it leads to the conclusion you want. But the idea is patently absurd on inspection.

and the Detroit Water and Sewage District ? Where do they get the money to provide the services ?

 

[Care4all]

Since we're mostly made of water and we have a human right to live then I'd say that water is a human right despite what any mother fucker at the Nestle corporation might say. Without water, you have no rights because you're dead and no longer a human.

What they are doing to people in that city is criminal and immoral.

Shutting off utilities that are unpaid is criminal?

fyi-shutting off someone's electric heat in the middle of winter for not paying their bill has been illegal in every state in the north that I have lived in.

 

[percysunshine]

Is "Water" a Human Right? ....

Salamanders find it useful, and fish find it necessary.

.

 

[itfitzme]

I note the irony here. Water distribution is a monopoly enabled by government. The answer is not more government control in handing out water.

Monopolies are a natural outcome of economies of scale. They aren't very common. Ologopolies are far more common. The government enabled monopolies are patents. That is done to give inventors the opportunity to benefit from their efforts.

This is all patently obvious.

No it's not. But what is patently obvious is that you are an economic moron.

It's very difficult to obtain and hold a natural monopoly. Most monopolies are enabled by government cronyism (cf, water distribution systems, local cable service).

It's not a coincidence that mega corporations pursue regulatory capture in order to prevent smaller competitors from growing.

Why is it that people with very limited intelligence and education call others "morons", as if they have clue? You don't even get that most of your comment supports mine.

The natural monoplies aren't particularly common. But this doesn't mean they don't exist. And sure companies pursue every advantage, not the least of which includes lobbying legislatures to influence regulation to their advantage. None of this changes the fact that natural monopolies exist.

By definition, monopolies are self sustaining and require far less effort to maintain market dominance. By definition, natural monopolies do not require government regulation to maintain them. This is why they are called "natural" monopolies.

See how that works, moron?

Natural monopolies exist as a result of economies of scale and natural economic barriers to entry. Utilities like power and water are perfect natural monopolies because they have very little variable costs. The fixed costs of production and distribution are divided out among an ever increasing customer base which allows them to out price any competition that attempts to enter the market.

Utility companies are among the very few cases of natural monopolies. The manfacturing process is a continuous one where the same equipment can produce more product with no significant increase in cost. The is same nfrastructure needed to deliver the product to one customer also delivers it to additional customes with little additional cost.

Oh, and everyone with a grasp on economics knows this. And it takes vey little thought and consideration to grasp it.

You are, of course, welcome to overturn the entire field of micro economics by proving this econ 101 fundamental wrong. But I doubt anyone will be impressed by your opening sentence being "You are all economic morons".

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Water is not a human right, it's a natural resource. Like all other natural resources it is sold as a commodity.

What kind of idiotic thread is this?

 

[itfitzme]

Since we're mostly made of water and we have a human right to live then I'd say that water is a human right despite what any mother fucker at the Nestle corporation might say. Without water, you have no rights because you're dead and no longer a human.

What they are doing to people in that city is criminal and immoral.

Shutting off utilities that are unpaid is criminal?

fyi-shutting off someone's electric heat in the middle of winter for not paying their bill has been illegal in every state in the north that I have lived in.

Damn government with their pesky little rules about not killing people. It's almost like there are people in government actually care about people? What's up with that?

Maybe it's a conspiracy to keep people alive so they can collect taxes from them?

Damn that's clever. They're going to ruin their reputation if they keep that up.

 

[percysunshine]

Water is not a human right, it's a natural resource. Like all other natural resources it is sold as a commodity.

What kind of idiotic thread is this?

The term 'Idiotic' has a classification scheme? OK.

It could be a sliding scale from 1 to 10. One being 'casually' idiotic, and ten being 'incomprehensibly' idiotic.

I would put this at about a 7.3

.

 

[itfitzme]

Yo Vern, are you saying that the folks in Detroit do not know how to locate Lake Michigan?

WHO pays to process the water and distribute it in those pipes?

.

The best I can tell from the website is that the Detroit Water and Sewage District pays for it. Detroit Water and Sewerage Department - Home Page

The mistake is this idea that you pay for things by virtue of having paid taxes. What you pay are your taxes. The government pays for whatever the gov't pays for.

By this ridiculous concept of "inherited payment", that you buy groceries and the grocery store pays wages to an employee who buys beer at the local liquor store owned by someone that buy meth, you've paid for the meth. The problem with this entire notion is that by this reasoning, everyone in the world is therefore paying for everything. It really is meanningless. And it is notable that it is applied selectively, when it benefits the person using it. It doesn't seem to get applied as "I owe money because ....."

When you go to the store and buy milk, you have paid for the milk. What happens after that isn't attributable to you.

When you pay taxes, what you pay for is...well...you don't pay for anything. Paying taxes doesn't come with any guarantee that you will get anything in return. Nowhere is there anything written that you get anything.

There are other lines of reasoning by which we account for the distribution of scarce resources in economics. None of these macro-economic concepts relies on assigning the cost in one part of the economy to specific individuals in another. You may like the concept when it leads to the conclusion you want. But the idea is patently absurd on inspection.

and the Detroit Water and Sewage District ? Where do they get the money to provide the services ?

You apparently don't learn well. Is it reading comprehension that you find difficult or is it just a general learning disability?

 

[itfitzme]

Water is not a human right, it's a natural resource. Like all other natural resources it is sold as a commodity.

What kind of idiotic thread is this?

Wow, really? You think that "commodity" and "human right" are mutually exclusive sets?