ISONOMY anyone: why don't we have equal justice, what will it take to get there

[emilynghiem]

Here is the Wikipedia entry on ISONOMY.
Equal Justice Under Law is inscribed on the Supreme Court Bldg.
Why don't we have Equality for all persons, and what will it take to get there?

Isonomia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LibertyLemming]

Government will always result in unequal laws if it involves force

 

[jwoodie]

So is this about gays or white males under 40?

 

[emilynghiem]

Government will always result in unequal laws if it involves force

Can force be kept as a choice to compel negotiations so it does not have to be used?

(1) For military arms, the ability to offer both the 'carrot' and the 'stick' compels everyone to go for the carrot. The problem is not offering equal choice of both, including accounting for people's egos and resistance to change or outside influence, which must be included in the equation. The best use of defense is as a deterrent NOT to have to use force.

(2) Even for the death penalty, it has been argued that the choice is necessary to compel parties to cooperate with authorities instead of denying wrongdoing. We could also give the state authority to revoke citizenship if offenders hold back information that denies justice or obstructs due process; so that in order to invoke rights under law the parties must agree to respect the same.

(3) For using civil courts and legal action as an alternative to using physical arms to defend one's rights property and persons, threatening to sue and charge the wrongdoer for all the costs and damages should serve as motivation to mediate instead; again, the main factors preventing this is rewarding more people for suing than for mediating and saving costs, and also not offering an equitable solution so people have a choice that would resolve the issue.

In all these examples, the choice to go to war, to use force of law or threat of death can be used to compel parties NOT to have to go there. Do you agree? Frankly I don't see people agreeing to give up the choice of going to war or having the death penalty. I see we can reduce the need to resort to these options, by improving alternative means of avoiding them.

This requires equal knowledge of the laws, so people make informed choices and don't rely on political bullying coercion or oppression to defend their freedom and rights under law. When people understand "the law of reciprocity" applies to ALL laws, church or state, that you get the justice you give, then we will eventually learn to enforce for others the level of rights and freedoms we want for ourselves; so when we are sick of being bullied back maybe we will quit bullying others. This can only be taught by choice, not by retribution and bullying back and forth as punishment, or else the vicious cycle just keeps going and going.

 

[emilynghiem]

So is this about gays or white males under 40?

About all people, what causes people to be politically oppressed or oppressive, and to have unequal influence that is abused? What areas do we need to address to correct this?

I personally believe in equal distribution of KNOWLEDGE of laws, not trying to redistribute the wealth or the power in reaction to one group or another. Some people seem to be okay with punishing the poor as their fault if they don't do more to help themselves out of victimhood, while others in reaction want to blame or hold the rich more responsible even though it is not a crime either to be rich or poor. The issue is whether you are abusing other people, and either the rich or the poor may be guilty or not; it isn't by class, but by what you are doing to either exploit the rich or the poor that makes something wrong. So we should hold people accountable based on anything they did wrong that owes restitution. So knowledge of the laws of restorative justice and restitution would resolve these issues, INSTEAD of making it into a collective class war, either punishing the poor or penalizing the rich blaming them for the inequality.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Government will always result in unequal laws if it involves force

Can force be kept as a choice to compel negotiations so it does not have to be used?

(1) For military arms, the ability to offer both the 'carrot' and the 'stick' compels everyone to go for the carrot. The problem is not offering equal choice of both, including accounting for people's egos and resistance to change or outside influence, which must be included in the equation. The best use of defense is as a deterrent NOT to have to use force.

(2) Even for the death penalty, it has been argued that the choice is necessary to compel parties to cooperate with authorities instead of denying wrongdoing. We could also give the state authority to revoke citizenship if offenders hold back information that denies justice or obstructs due process; so that in order to invoke rights under law the parties must agree to respect the same.

(3) For using civil courts and legal action as an alternative to using physical arms to defend one's rights property and persons, threatening to sue and charge the wrongdoer for all the costs and damages should serve as motivation to mediate instead; again, the main factors preventing this is rewarding more people for suing than for mediating and saving costs, and also not offering an equitable solution so people have a choice that would resolve the issue.

In all these examples, the choice to go to war, to use force of law or threat of death can be used to compel parties NOT to have to go there. Do you agree? Frankly I don't see people agreeing to give up the choice of going to war or having the death penalty. I see we can reduce the need to resort to these options, by improving alternative means of avoiding them.

This requires equal knowledge of the laws, so people make informed choices and don't rely on political bullying coercion or oppression to defend their freedom and rights under law. When people understand "the law of reciprocity" applies to ALL laws, church or state, that you get the justice you give, then we will eventually learn to enforce for others the level of rights and freedoms we want for ourselves; so when we are sick of being bullied back maybe we will quit bullying others. This can only be taught by choice, not by retribution and bullying back and forth as punishment, or else the vicious cycle just keeps going and going.

The threat of force only works until someone tests it and then it won't work anymore unless action is taken, it won't work even then as clearly demonstrated by our overflowing prisons.

Good luck in your quest of getting everyone to have an understanding of the laws and politics and goings on outside their small personal bubble. It is a pipe dream.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Well, I think it is clear.... we need to take all of Warren Buffet's money and give to some inner city kids.

Problems solved.

 

[jwoodie]

OK, let's hide the agenda for a few more posts...

 

[emilynghiem]

The threat of force only works until someone tests it and then it won't work anymore unless action is taken, it won't work even then as clearly demonstrated by our overflowing prisons.

Good luck in your quest of getting everyone to have an understanding of the laws and politics and goings on outside their small personal bubble. It is a pipe dream.

Hi Liberty: You hit the nail right on the head regarding prisons.
I have a friend who is known worldwide for his work on prison reform.

We agree that the model should be changed to medical treatment of addiction and criminal behavior as an illness; and then more money would shift into education, health care, and secure communities instead of wasting it on a failed prison system that costs billions of dollars charged to law-abiding taxpayers.

So this cycle can be broken through legal and spiritual education. Even criminal illness and addiction can be cured, as demonstrated through programs using various forms of forgiveness therapy to break free from past patterns (Buddhist past life therapy, AA, Christian healing prayer and generational healing and deliverance prayer, etc.).

The reason this is not out yet, the solutions are free; so the power would become equal and people aren't ready for that. They are either used to being in power, or used to being out. The idea of equal responsibility is foreign to people both inside and outside govt, but that is what I believe makes all people equal by natural laws; only our unequal access and knowledge makes us unequal, but this can be remedied. Meanwhile, we will all suffer collectively as a society until this cycle is broken by equal access to knowledge of the laws.

 

[hazlnut]

Government will always result in unequal laws if it involves force

Explain.

You mean like forcing white people to accept blacks at their school?

 

[jillian]

About all people, what causes people to be politically oppressed or oppressive, and to have unequal influence that is abused? What areas do we need to address to correct this?

what are you blathering about?

 

[LibertyLemming]

The threat of force only works until someone tests it and then it won't work anymore unless action is taken, it won't work even then as clearly demonstrated by our overflowing prisons.

Good luck in your quest of getting everyone to have an understanding of the laws and politics and goings on outside their small personal bubble. It is a pipe dream.

Hi Liberty: You hit the nail right on the head regarding prisons.
I have a friend who is known worldwide for his work on prison reform.

We agree that the model should be changed to medical treatment of addiction and criminal behavior as an illness; and then more money would shift into education, health care, and secure communities instead of wasting it on a failed prison system that costs billions of dollars charged to law-abiding taxpayers.

So this cycle can be broken through legal and spiritual education. Even criminal illness and addiction can be cured, as demonstrated through programs using various forms of forgiveness therapy to break free from past patterns (Buddhist past life therapy, AA, Christian healing prayer and generational healing and deliverance prayer, etc.).

The reason this is not out yet, the solutions are free; so the power would become equal and people aren't ready for that. They are either used to being in power, or used to being out. The idea of equal responsibility is foreign to people both inside and outside govt, but that is what I believe makes all people equal by natural laws; only our unequal access and knowledge makes us unequal, but this can be remedied. Meanwhile, we will all suffer collectively as a society until this cycle is broken by equal access to knowledge of the laws.

mmm I think I know where this is going.

How is it free? It sounds like you want to channel more tax payer money into things like education and other bullshit which requires force.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, I think it is clear.... we need to take all of Warren Buffet's money and give to some inner city kids.

Problems solved.

IF it is invested in sustainable business and educational plans, so it isn't used up without a renewable way to generate revenue for a longterm program.

Sad thing is, I work with a community that has actually proposed such a sustainable plan.
And the City and Government is still seeking to censor and destroy the community plans, while giving million dollar grants to large developers. If you know a way to contact Warren Buffet and ask all Democrat supporters to help, the petition is posted at Freedmen's Town Historic Churches and Vet Housing It will be awful if we do get the President to come visit this historic national district, but the last houses are already removed by the City. Because we couldn't raise $100,000 to buy the land from the owners and save the African American history, while the President and his supporters just spent $6 billion for him to get re-elected.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Government will always result in unequal laws if it involves force

Explain.

You mean like forcing white people to accept blacks at their school?

Sure. The reality is you are also depriving people of running a school the way they see fit. Freedom shouldn't be the goal though, morality should be the goal.

I think it puts someone in an unjust position to try to force morality on people by means of a gunpoint.

 

[Duped]

Those who are ignorant, stupid, and lazy make up many of the poor - the only thing they will ever be receptive to is handouts! Fairness, and equality are subjective terms; you can't build a concensus on subjectivity. We live in a capitalist society where power influences wealth, and wealth controls power. The better connected you are, and the more wealth you have, the more fairly you will be treated! It beats the shit out of socialism!

 

[Katzndogz]

Here is the Wikipedia entry on ISONOMY.
Equal Justice Under Law is inscribed on the Supreme Court Bldg.
Why don't we have Equality for all persons, and what will it take to get there?

Isonomia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have equal justice. We don't have equality because you can't have equality AND freedom.

 

[LibertyLemming]

Here is the Wikipedia entry on ISONOMY.
Equal Justice Under Law is inscribed on the Supreme Court Bldg.
Why don't we have Equality for all persons, and what will it take to get there?

Isonomia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have equal justice. We don't have equality because you can't have equality AND freedom.

We hardly have equal justice.

 

[jwoodie]

Here is the Wikipedia entry on ISONOMY.
Equal Justice Under Law is inscribed on the Supreme Court Bldg.
Why don't we have Equality for all persons, and what will it take to get there?

Isonomia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have equal justice. We don't have equality because you can't have equality AND freedom.

Aww, don't spoil the OP's circular argument quite yet: The next one will probably be something like "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

 

[emilynghiem]

Government will always result in unequal laws if it involves force

Explain.

You mean like forcing white people to accept blacks at their school?

Do you mean physical force or force of law?

 

[deltex1]

Stop whining...you have equal access to guns.