Israel attacks America - Will US policy change?

[TheGreatGatsby]

The Jews and arabs have been in the middle east for centuries. Which group is unwilling to even cede a sliver of land? That's right; the shitty arabs.

There were ten times as many Arabs as Jews living in Palestine one hundred years ago; why do you imagine European Jews were entitled to land that Arabs had been living on for generations?

And now there are ten times as many Jews as Arabs living in Israel. Why do you imagine the mixed-breed regional Arabs were entitled to land that Jews and Christians had been living on for generations prior to their arrival and conquest of the land some centuries ago?

In the first place, it wasn't even a grass roots effort for Israel to cede their lands. The PNA was initially a collection of arab countries who simply wanted to war with Israel. But then when Israel kicked their as in 48 and 67, they realized that strategy wouldn't work and they made it about propaganda.

 

[georgephillip]

In the first place, it wasn't even a grass roots effort for Israel to cede their lands. The PNA was initially a collection of arab countries who simply wanted to war with Israel. But then when Israel kicked their as in 48 and 67, they realized that strategy wouldn't work and they made it about propaganda.

In 1948, 650,000 Jews inflicted their state on 1.3 million Arabs by force of arms with a wink and nod from the UN which defied its own Charter when it failed to call for self-determination. In 1967 Jews stole the remaining 22% of Mandate Palestine. Since that time, Jews have filled the West Bank with hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers, and that act of ethnic cleansing continues to this minute. Hasbara (propaganda) is the Jewish state's principal tool for convincing the world to blame the Arab victims.

 

[Kondor3]

In the first place, it wasn't even a grass roots effort for Israel to cede their lands. The PNA was initially a collection of arab countries who simply wanted to war with Israel. But then when Israel kicked their as in 48 and 67, they realized that strategy wouldn't work and they made it about propaganda.

In 1948, 650,000 Jews inflicted their state on 1.3 million Arabs by force of arms with a wink and nod from the UN which defied its own Charter when it failed to call for self-determination. In 1967 Jews stole the remaining 22% of Mandate Palestine. Since that time, Jews have filled the West Bank with hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers, and that act of ethnic cleansing continues to this minute. Hasbara (propaganda) is the Jewish state's principal tool for convincing the world to blame the Arab victims.

Sounds good.

Let's blame the Arab victims, and get this over with.

 

[georgephillip]

Countries don't believe that Israel is the genocidal threat despite all your propaganda. And all the anti-semtic based resolutions in the world won't change that reality.

If your definition of genocide includes "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group", Israel is committing genocide with the backing of the greatest purveyor of violence in the world.
"Ordinarily the Israeli campaign against the Palestinians is creeping and deliberate, involving processes of detention, and restriction: the abject denial of basic human rights and dignities that is integral to political and military occupation. It is 'incremental genocide' (to borrow a phrase from the scholar Ilan Pappe).

"Israeli action against the Palestinians is slow out of political necessity; since World War II the world will typically not tolerate the attempt by one ethnic/national group to eliminate another (indeed on several occasions more powerful states have intervened militarily to attack those attempting to erase another people)."
Is Israel Committing a Genocide against the Palestinians of Gaza Informed Comment

 

[georgephillip]

In the first place, it wasn't even a grass roots effort for Israel to cede their lands. The PNA was initially a collection of arab countries who simply wanted to war with Israel. But then when Israel kicked their as in 48 and 67, they realized that strategy wouldn't work and they made it about propaganda.

In 1948, 650,000 Jews inflicted their state on 1.3 million Arabs by force of arms with a wink and nod from the UN which defied its own Charter when it failed to call for self-determination. In 1967 Jews stole the remaining 22% of Mandate Palestine. Since that time, Jews have filled the West Bank with hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers, and that act of ethnic cleansing continues to this minute. Hasbara (propaganda) is the Jewish state's principal tool for convincing the world to blame the Arab victims.

Sounds good.

Let's blame the Arab victims, and get this over with.

Any particular victims you would like to start with?
"As defined by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2, it consists of 'any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:'

"(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."

Is Israel Committing a Genocide against the Palestinians of Gaza Informed Comment

 

[Kondor3]

...Any particular victims you would like to start with?...

Nahhhhh...

Nobody (including the Jews) wants to commit genocide...

Just kick 'em out of Eretz Yisrael and shove 'em across the borders to Jordan and Lebanon...

At least they'll still be alive at the end of the sequence...

Far more humane and merciful than what the Muslim Palestinians of Hamas and Fatah would do to the Jews, if they every got the chance...

 

[georgephillip]

So, your argument is that the arabs won their wars and they should just accept that they drove the Jews out? Yet, the Jews won the recent wars and I don't see you saying, well the arabs should let them have some land already. DEAD TO FUCKING RIGHT CALLOUS HYPOCRISY, DUDE

Jews and Arabs lived side by side in Palestine for centuries with levels of violence between the two nations much less than what we've seen since Zionism began in Europe about a hundred years ago. At least the first generation of Zionist were honest about their intentions:
"There can be no voluntary agreement between ourselves and the Palestine Arabs. Not now,(1923) nor in the prospective future. I say this with such conviction, not because I want to hurt the moderate Zionists. I do not believe that they will be hurt. Except for those who were born blind, they realised long ago that it is utterly impossible to obtain the voluntary consent of the Palestine Arabs for converting 'Palestine' from an Arab country into a country with a Jewish majority."
The Iron Wall Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Kondor3]

...Jews and Arabs lived side by side in Palestine for centuries with levels of violence between the two nations much less than what we've seen since Zionism began in Europe about a hundred years ago...

Mere coincidence.

Muslims worldwide have been largely under the heel of European colonialism and imperialism since the 1700s and 1800s, until the end of WWII, which is still within Living Memory, and which coincides with the advent of the State of Israel.

Freed from British and French and other European colonial status, and once again (sometimes, for the first time) empowered to govern (and arm) themselves, both dictatorship and democracy have rested very imperfectly upon the trouble brow of these Muslim-dominated states - several of whom are mere fabrications of departing European masters - and these States oftentimes end-up reverting back to an imperfectly-reproduced Islamic Fundamentalist mindset and Sharia and its derivatives as the only familiar and viable alternative.

Islam is a Warrior's Religion rather than a Religion of Peace, and they have been pressing that advantage since the 600s, and throughout much of history since that time, although their empires and caliphates have always degenerated into licentious and effeminate and ghostly echoes of their more manly albeit barbaric and savage founders and predecessors.

Freed from British and French and other European colonial status, Islam at-large is re-awakening and re-arming, and making tentative but increasingly-serious probing sorties against The West (modern, secularized Christendom).

Western support for the State of Israel is only the excuse du jour - or, more accurately, only ONE of an ARRAY of excuses du jour, used by the Militant Element within Islam, to rebuild and test its strength and to probe for weaknesses in its age-old and mortal Enemy - The West - a.k.a. Christendom.

Portraying Western support for the State of Israel as the primary cause of Islamic militancy and violence is a blinkered, myopic, short-sighted and disingenuous tactic designed to (1) divide The West from Israel and (2) take our attention away from the broader Islamic re-awakening and re-militarizing that has been underway since today's range of Islamic states achieved their independence from their European colonial masters.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

In the first place, it wasn't even a grass roots effort for Israel to cede their lands. The PNA was initially a collection of arab countries who simply wanted to war with Israel. But then when Israel kicked their as in 48 and 67, they realized that strategy wouldn't work and they made it about propaganda.

In 1948, 650,000 Jews inflicted their state on 1.3 million Arabs by force of arms with a wink and nod from the UN which defied its own Charter when it failed to call for self-determination. In 1967 Jews stole the remaining 22% of Mandate Palestine. Since that time, Jews have filled the West Bank with hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers, and that act of ethnic cleansing continues to this minute. Hasbara (propaganda) is the Jewish state's principal tool for convincing the world to blame the Arab victims.

Israel has taken its land above board. It's not their fault that you don't get that there's winners and losers in war. And out of curiosity if you consider Jews to be illegal immigrants in the West Bank, do you consider the fact that there are illegal immigrants in the USA from Mexico? I know it's a tangent, but just wondering about your world view in that regard.

 

[Desperado]

1. 
   Israel attacks America - Will US policy change?
   It hasn't changed US policy when they attacked the USS Liberty or when Sharon Tried To
   Shoot Down US SR-71 In 1973 why should it now? In the eyes of certain "Americans" Israel can do no wrong.
   

 

[georgephillip]

Just kick 'em out of Eretz Yisrael and shove 'em across the borders to Jordan and Lebanon...

What if Eretz Yisrael includes Jordan and Lebanon? How much Arab land do you imagine Jews are entitled to on the basis of their mythology?

 

[Kondor3]

Just kick 'em out of Eretz Yisrael and shove 'em across the borders to Jordan and Lebanon...

What if Eretz Yisrael includes Jordan and Lebanon?...

It doesn't.

This (above) is all that they appear to desire.

This (above) is also what they have already almost fully completed.

Not much more to go, now.

 

[georgephillip]

Israel has taken its land above board. It's not their fault that you don't get that there's winners and losers in war.

Since the end of WWII it has been illegal to seize land by force of arms. Israel began its existence by violating the UN Charter which called for self-determination. All the Palestinian land you see on the above maps has been taken illegally. You can't justify the existence of the Jewish state by claiming "might makes right."

 

[georgephillip]

And out of curiosity if you consider Jews to be illegal immigrants in the West Bank, do you consider the fact that there are illegal immigrants in the USA from Mexico? I know it's a tangent, but just wondering about your world view in that regard.

I think both groups of immigrants are illegal; however, the Israeli government has deliberately filled the territories it occupied in 1967 with Jewish civilians in spite of the Fourth Geneva Convention's explicit prohibition. Many Mexican migrants are in this country illegally, but much of their inspiration come from economic policies that benefit rich Americans on both side of the border at the expense of a majority of their workers.

 

[georgephillip]

This (above) is also what they have already almost fully completed.

Not much more to go, now.

There is a little controversy concerning the extent of Eretz Yisrael; in fact, earlier generations of Zionist argued against transferring Palestinians to Jordan and Syria in '48 because they felt that might inhibit the future expansion of the Jewish state.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Israel has taken its land above board. It's not their fault that you don't get that there's winners and losers in war.

Since the end of WWII it has been illegal to seize land by force of arms. Israel began its existence by violating the UN Charter which called for self-determination. All the Palestinian land you see on the above maps has been taken illegally. You can't justify the existence of the Jewish state by claiming "might makes right."

So, you're hanging your hat on third party terms. You think that someone somewhere else was allowed to decree that Jews had no right to any of their lands. That' mighty convenient.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

This (above) is also what they have already almost fully completed.

Not much more to go, now.

There is a little controversy concerning the extent of Eretz Yisrael; in fact, earlier generations of Zionist argued against transferring Palestinians to Jordan and Syria in '48 because they felt that might inhibit the future expansion of the Jewish state.

They were right. They should have given those countries their trash back.

 

[Kondor3]

This (above) is also what they have already almost fully completed.

Not much more to go, now.

There is a little controversy concerning the extent of Eretz Yisrael; in fact, earlier generations of Zionist argued against transferring Palestinians to Jordan and Syria in '48 because they felt that might inhibit the future expansion of the Jewish state.

If that mindset were still operative then the Israelis would never have given back the Sinai.

No sale.

 

[georgephillip]

o, you're hanging your hat on third party terms. You think that someone somewhere else was allowed to decree that Jews had no right to any of their lands

What do you mean by "their lands?"

 

[georgephillip]

If that mindset were still operative then the Israelis would never have given back the Sinai.

No sale

Jews gave back the Sinai because the US gave them no choice in the matter. Much has changed since Ike occupied the White House.