Israel defends itself?

[Antares]

Right, Israel ceded Gaza. That pretty much proves that you're lying when you write Israel is occupying the Gaza. It's what you do: Lie. Tell a big enough lie and maybe people will believe you. Maybe.

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

The part that ignores the western border with Egypt, dumbshit.

And yet the Hamas Sand ******* keep firing the Rockets.......hmmmmmm

 

[TemplarKormac]

No, actually it proves that I can kick your ass in an argument without too much effort.

To be perfectly honest, as much as I hate the conflict in the ME because it seems to be a neverending struggle perpetuated by people who don't appear to have any real intention of negotiating in good faith and who keep America on the hook diplomatically and financially to their extremist views, my purpose in this thread was considerably more modest than shedding new light on an old conflict. I just basically wanted to expose conservative hypocrisy. It's not difficult, really, since it's on display every day on this forum. But I thought that the issue of life and death when it came to innocent women & children would make that hypocrisy stand out in all its ugly and gory glory.

I was right.

So, in the immortal words of Frank Burns (who you kind of remind me of to be perfectly honest), "Go peddle your fish!"

IIf you think you're kicking anyone's ass with your inaccuracies and outright lies I have a bridge to sell you. No one excaptt the hardcore jew haters believe a word you write.

As usual, American conservatives are alone in their views.

As usual, you are alone in your delusions.

 

[georgephillip]

As I have already pointed out to you: IF Israel wanted all the land - they could have just kept it. When they were attacked in 1967 they drove their attackers all the way out of that land. But later they turned it back over to the Arabs.

It proves your statement wrong because if they wanted that land at all costs .... why did they GIVE IT BACK?

Israel gave back the Sinai to Egypt after nearly losing everything in '73, but they still occupy Gaza and the West Bank. Prior to the UN Charter and Nuremberg Tribunals Israel could have claimed the Right of Conquest; they no longer have that option. Jews can either share the land between the River and the sea, or go the way of White South Africa.

They should have kept all the land they captured. Giving one square inch back was stupid.

In 1979 Israel signed a peace treaty with Egypt in which it agreed to the complete withdrawal of all Israeli armed forces and civilians from the Sinai Peninsula in exchange for mutual recognition and cessation of the state of war that had existed between the two countries since 1948.

It's the only time Jews have exchanged land for peace, and it's still holding today.

Was it also a mistake?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Honestly...it probably was; at least, without demanding HUGE concessions from Egypt, it was idiotic.

 

[georgephillip]

Honestly...it probably was; at least, without demanding HUGE concessions from Egypt, it was idiotic.

Egypt was no threat to Israel, but it was by far the most powerful Arab military in the world.
35 years of uninterrupted peace is a pretty big concession from your biggest threat.

 

[bripat9643]

Your link

"In the same time that Sharon was preparing the withdrawal, pointed out critics, he was favoring settlements in the West Bank, among them Ma'ale Adumim, the largest Israeli settlement near Jerusalem.

"According to Peace Now, the number of settlers increased by 6,100 compared with 2004, to reach 250,000 in the West Bank.

"In an October 6, 2004, interview with Haaretz, Dov Weissglass, Sharon's chief of staff, declared: 'The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process.... When you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Disengagement supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.'"

Israel is still considered the occupying power in Gaza by the UN, EU, and various human rights organizations.

If you want peace, end the blockade.

If you want more land, don't

Right, Israel ceded Gaza. That pretty much proves that you're lying when you write Israel is occupying the Gaza. It's what you do: Lie. Tell a big enough lie and maybe people will believe you. Maybe.

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

It still doesn't occupy Gaza. The Palestinians and Hamas make and enforce their own laws within Gaza. Israel controls the borders to keep war materials from being smuggled in. That's how you have to deal with vicious bloodthirsty animals like the Palestinians.

You aren't actually expecting Israel to treat them like civilized human beings, are you?

 

[bripat9643]

Not for Israel. Hamas wants the same exact land.

Hamas stops its resistance when Israel stops its belligerent occupation of Gaza.

No...Hamas stops its "resistance" when the last Israeli is dead or has left...not before.

Or when the last member of Hamas is killed or put in prison.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

After everything is said and done, I think this thread has adequately established that, as far as conservatives are concerned, the killing of women and children is okay with them as long as it's Israelis who are pulling the triggers because they'll simply blame the Palestinians for the deaths of innocents. See how that works? Because, let's be honest here. It certainly would be a completely different story if it was Jewish women and children who were caught in a crossfire. Then conservatives would be expressing moral outrage.

So much for conservative principles.

The of the depraved sociopath. They are in the crossfire, you obtuse degenerate.

Shut up. The plight of children in the Islamic world is heart-wrenchingly tragic, innocence violated by the religion from hell. Vulnerable minds poisoned with hate. Islamofascist mothers strapping bombs to them. Islamofascist fathers hiding behind them. They're parents are friggin' animals, and so are you.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Jews want all the land between the River and the sea for themselves.
That's a big FAIL.

Not for Israel. Hamas wants the same exact land.

Hamas stops its resistance when Israel stops its belligerent occupation of Gaza.

Sieg Heil!

 

[Slyhunter]

Your link

"In the same time that Sharon was preparing the withdrawal, pointed out critics, he was favoring settlements in the West Bank, among them Ma'ale Adumim, the largest Israeli settlement near Jerusalem.

"According to Peace Now, the number of settlers increased by 6,100 compared with 2004, to reach 250,000 in the West Bank.

"In an October 6, 2004, interview with Haaretz, Dov Weissglass, Sharon's chief of staff, declared: 'The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process.... When you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Disengagement supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.'"

Israel is still considered the occupying power in Gaza by the UN, EU, and various human rights organizations.

If you want peace, end the blockade.

If you want more land, don't

Right, Israel ceded Gaza. That pretty much proves that you're lying when you write Israel is occupying the Gaza. It's what you do: Lie. Tell a big enough lie and maybe people will believe you. Maybe.

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

Israel doesn't control all of it's land borders. One border is Egypt, talk to them.
Israel doesn't have to allow Palestinians into Israel if they don't want to. If that causes them to starve to death, oh vell.

 

[Slyhunter]

Not for Israel. Hamas wants the same exact land.

Hamas stops its resistance when Israel stops its belligerent occupation of Gaza.

No...Hamas stops its "resistance" when the last Israeli is dead or has left...not before.

How is firing rockets into civilian neighborhoods effective resistance?

 

[Mustang]

After everything is said and done, I think this thread has adequately established that, as far as conservatives are concerned, the killing of women and children is okay with them as long as it's Israelis who are pulling the triggers because they'll simply blame the Palestinians for the deaths of innocents. See how that works? Because, let's be honest here. It certainly would be a completely different story if it was Jewish women and children who were caught in a crossfire. Then conservatives would be expressing moral outrage.

So much for conservative principles.

The of the depraved sociopath. They are in the crossfire, you obtuse degenerate.

Shut up. The plight of children in the Islamic world is heart-wrenchingly tragic, innocence violated by the religion from hell. Vulnerable minds poisoned with hate. Mothers strapping bombs to them. Islamofascists fathers hiding behind them. They're parents are friggin' animals, and so are you.

What you're engaging in now with your tirade is extremely common among the blood thirsty crowd like Tojo, and Hitler, and other aggressors. They thought (and history seems to bear this out) that by dehumanizing other people (like the Chinese in Manchuria, or the Jews in Europe, or the Negroes of the American South) it made it easier to convince their fellow countryman to kill them (exterminate them, actually).

You don't appear to be much different from them in your attitudes. Since you have little if any empathy toward their humanity, they're expendable and disposable as far as you're concerned.

 

[georgephillip]

Right, Israel ceded Gaza. That pretty much proves that you're lying when you write Israel is occupying the Gaza. It's what you do: Lie. Tell a big enough lie and maybe people will believe you. Maybe.

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

It still doesn't occupy Gaza. The Palestinians and Hamas make and enforce their own laws within Gaza. Israel controls the borders to keep war materials from being smuggled in. That's how you have to deal with vicious bloodthirsty animals like the Palestinians.

You aren't actually expecting Israel to treat them like civilized human beings, are you?

Explain why Israel prohibits all EXPORTS from Gaza if not as a form of collective punishment.
Then tell us why Israel limits the amount of calories the average Gazan consumes daily if not to make their life into such a living hell they will abandon their land and make rich Jews even richer?

 

[georgephillip]

I agree for once. The North Vietnamese put a lot of their SAM's and other weapons in schools and hospitals because they knew the Americans wouldn't bomb them.

Now Hamas does the same thing and the Israeli's give them adequate warning before they bomb them destroying the military hardware. Either those that do not leave are stupid or they are forced to stay in harms way.

The phrase you liberals like to use is 'the fog of war.' I prefer 'shit happens.'

Israelis are the ones who target women and children. The decision to attack was the Israelis'. The targets they chose was the Israelis'. The manner of attack was the Israelis. AND the moral responsiblity for killing women and children belongs to the Israelis, period! Any attempt to shift the blame for those deaths to someone else other than the Israelis is little more than sophistry.

OK, now you are just lying.

Or maybe you've been lied to for decades on this subject?

"The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.[1]

"The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 2006 Lebanon War.[2] Israel has been accused of implementing the strategy during the Gaza War."

Dahiya doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand one simple truth:

Israel wants all the land between the River and the sea for Jews ONLY?

 

[Mustang]

Right, Israel ceded Gaza. That pretty much proves that you're lying when you write Israel is occupying the Gaza. It's what you do: Lie. Tell a big enough lie and maybe people will believe you. Maybe.

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

It still doesn't occupy Gaza. The Palestinians and Hamas make and enforce their own laws within Gaza. Israel controls the borders to keep war materials from being smuggled in. That's how you have to deal with vicious bloodthirsty animals like the Palestinians.

You aren't actually expecting Israel to treat them like civilized human beings, are you?

Considering the fact that everyone can see how Israel treats people, no, I don't think most people actually expect Israel to treat their neighbors like civilized human beings. That's why the Palestinians will continue to fight back. They'll want to avenge the deaths of the innocent women and children who have been killed in the last week or so, just like American conservatives would want to do if they were the ones who had been attacked. In that sense, the Israelis are only perpetuating the conflict. I suppose that's great news for arms merchants.

 

[georgephillip]

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

It still doesn't occupy Gaza. The Palestinians and Hamas make and enforce their own laws within Gaza. Israel controls the borders to keep war materials from being smuggled in. That's how you have to deal with vicious bloodthirsty animals like the Palestinians.

You aren't actually expecting Israel to treat them like civilized human beings, are you?

Considering the fact that everyone can see how Israel treats people, no, I don't think most people actually expect Israel to treat their neighbors like civilized human beings. That's why the Palestinians will continue to fight back. They'll want to avenge the deaths of the innocent women and children who have been killed in the last week or so, just like American conservatives would want to do if they were the ones who had been attacked. In that sense, the Israelis are only perpetuating the conflict. I suppose that's great news for arms merchants.

Anyone who still swallows the kosher load about Israel doing its utmost to limit civilian casualties has forgotten the four dead Gazan cousins murdered by the heroic crew of an IDF gunboat.

Four children playing on a pier with no hostilities in the area.
The gun boat fires one shell, killing one child and scattering the rest.
In the next 30 seconds, the heroic Jews reload and fire a second shell, killing three more children.
Because Jews were arrogant enough to commit this crime directly in front of a beachfront hotel filled with western journalists, the world has been allowed to see what residents of Gaza see on an almost daily basis.
Israel deserves the same sanctions Saddam received after his invasion of Kuwait.

 

[bripat9643]

After everything is said and done, I think this thread has adequately established that, as far as conservatives are concerned, the killing of women and children is okay with them as long as it's Israelis who are pulling the triggers because they'll simply blame the Palestinians for the deaths of innocents. See how that works? Because, let's be honest here. It certainly would be a completely different story if it was Jewish women and children who were caught in a crossfire. Then conservatives would be expressing moral outrage.

So much for conservative principles.

The of the depraved sociopath. They are in the crossfire, you obtuse degenerate.

Shut up. The plight of children in the Islamic world is heart-wrenchingly tragic, innocence violated by the religion from hell. Vulnerable minds poisoned with hate. Mothers strapping bombs to them. Islamofascists fathers hiding behind them. They're parents are friggin' animals, and so are you.

What you're engaging in now with your tirade is extremely common among the blood thirsty crowd like Tojo, and Hitler, and other aggressors. They thought (and history seems to bear this out) that by dehumanizing other people (like the Chinese in Manchuria, or the Jews in Europe, or the Negroes of the American South) it made it easier to convince their fellow countryman to kill them (exterminate them, actually).

FDR thought the same thing. Have you ever seen any of the racist posters the American government published to generate support for the war?

And then there are the anti-Semitic cartoons printed in Muslim newspapers:

So who do you think you're kidding?

 

[bripat9643]

Israel is the occupying power of Gaza since it controls all of its land borders, air space, and coastal waters. What part of that simple statement do you find confusing?

It still doesn't occupy Gaza. The Palestinians and Hamas make and enforce their own laws within Gaza. Israel controls the borders to keep war materials from being smuggled in. That's how you have to deal with vicious bloodthirsty animals like the Palestinians.

You aren't actually expecting Israel to treat them like civilized human beings, are you?

Explain why Israel prohibits all EXPORTS from Gaza if not as a form of collective punishment.
Then tell us why Israel limits the amount of calories the average Gazan consumes daily if not to make their life into such a living hell they will abandon their land and make rich Jews even richer?

I suppose you have some evidence for this policy?

 

[Mustang]

The of the depraved sociopath. They are in the crossfire, you obtuse degenerate.

Shut up. The plight of children in the Islamic world is heart-wrenchingly tragic, innocence violated by the religion from hell. Vulnerable minds poisoned with hate. Mothers strapping bombs to them. Islamofascists fathers hiding behind them. They're parents are friggin' animals, and so are you.

What you're engaging in now with your tirade is extremely common among the blood thirsty crowd like Tojo, and Hitler, and other aggressors. They thought (and history seems to bear this out) that by dehumanizing other people (like the Chinese in Manchuria, or the Jews in Europe, or the Negroes of the American South) it made it easier to convince their fellow countryman to kill them (exterminate them, actually).

FDR thought the same thing. Have you ever seen any of the racist posters the American government published to generate support for the war?

And then there are the anti-Semitic cartoons printed in Muslim newspapers:

So who do you think you're kidding?

Yeah, I've seen them before. I also recognized it for what it was. However, we were not the aggressors in WWII, and we were not engaging in conquest like Hitler and the Empire of Japan were doing when they tried (and temporarily succeeded) to subjugate other nations and people.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Israelis are the ones who target women and children. The decision to attack was the Israelis'. The targets they chose was the Israelis'. The manner of attack was the Israelis. AND the moral responsiblity for killing women and children belongs to the Israelis, period! Any attempt to shift the blame for those deaths to someone else other than the Israelis is little more than sophistry.

OK, now you are just lying.

Or maybe you've been lied to for decades on this subject?

"The Dahiya doctrine is a military strategy put forth by the Israeli general Gadi Eizenkot that pertains to asymmetric warfare in an urban setting, in which the army deliberately targets civilian infrastructure, as a means of inducing suffering for the civilian population, thereby establishing deterrence.[1]

"The doctrine is named after a southern suburb in Beirut with large apartment buildings which were flattened by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) during the 2006 Lebanon War.[2] Israel has been accused of implementing the strategy during the Gaza War."

Dahiya doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand one simple truth:

Israel wants all the land between the River and the sea for Jews ONLY?

Palestinians and hamas are satan worshiping murders occupying part of Israel GOD GAVE TO HIS PEOPLE THE JEWS. Defending the palestinians and hamas just shows how stupid you are idiot.