Israel Kills At Least 15 Syrian Soldiers in Bombings In Syria

[Hossfly]

You still stuck on slave, Hossie?
If Dick and Dubya are American patriots, what do you call William McGonagle?
Why do you support those who profit from Liberty and turn your back on those pay for it?

"After more than two hours of unremitting assault, the Israelis finally halted their attack. One of the torpedo boats approached the Liberty. This same torpedo boat crew had been circling the ship, machine-gunning anyone who stuck his head above decks, as well as the lifeboats the crew had put over the side.

"What had changed? The Israeli government knew that US aircraft carriers had just launched aircraft to come to Liberty's aid and the attack was quickly called off. The Israeli government called the US Embassy and said that they had made a 'mistake.'

"A torpedo boat officer asked in English over a bullhorn: 'Do you need any help?'

"The wounded commander of the Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, instructed the quartermaster to respond emphatically: 'Fuck you.'"

You're the rot.

Actually, Georgie Boy, you are the rot who has to depend on the taxpayers in Los Angeles to have a roof over your head. You have so little, Georgie Boy, other than the crazy sites you go to, that you are back to the Liberty for the umpteenth time. I guess you are afraid to hear from retired Naval personnel who were in at the time of this accident to see what they have to say. Oh, I forgot, you can't afford a car to drive up to Naval Base Ventura County. I guess the taxpayers don't spring for a car in addition to helping pay for your apartment. But, go ahead, Georgie Boy, since you have so little but your crazy sites, drag up that Liberty accident another umpteen times.

 

[georgephillip]

You still stuck on slave, Hossie?
If Dick and Dubya are American patriots, what do you call William McGonagle?
Why do you support those who profit from Liberty and turn your back on those pay for it?

"After more than two hours of unremitting assault, the Israelis finally halted their attack. One of the torpedo boats approached the Liberty. This same torpedo boat crew had been circling the ship, machine-gunning anyone who stuck his head above decks, as well as the lifeboats the crew had put over the side.

"What had changed? The Israeli government knew that US aircraft carriers had just launched aircraft to come to Liberty's aid and the attack was quickly called off. The Israeli government called the US Embassy and said that they had made a 'mistake.'

"A torpedo boat officer asked in English over a bullhorn: 'Do you need any help?'

"The wounded commander of the Liberty, Captain William McGonagle, instructed the quartermaster to respond emphatically: 'Fuck you.'"

You're the rot.

Actually, Georgie Boy, you are the rot who has to depend on the taxpayers in Los Angeles to have a roof over your head. You have so little, Georgie Boy, other than the crazy sites you go to, that you are back to the Liberty for the umpteenth time. I guess you are afraid to hear from retired Naval personnel who were in at the time of this accident to see what they have to say. Oh, I forgot, you can't afford a car to drive up to Naval Base Ventura County. I guess the taxpayers don't spring for a car in addition to helping pay for your apartment. But, go ahead, Georgie Boy, since you have so little but your crazy sites, drag up that Liberty accident another umpteen times.

Here's some contact info for some "retired Naval personnel who were in at the time of the accident..."
You can question their "crazy site" without depending on any taxpayers.
How 'bout Saturday, June 8th 2013...?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

The events made famous by the USS Liberty are historically important; from both a military and political leadership standpoint.

But, they are not significant, relevant, or tied to the accusation of "made for profit" that is slung here.

You still stuck on slave, Hossie?
If Dick and Dubya are American patriots, what do you call William McGonagle?
Why do you support those who profit from Liberty and turn your back on those pay for it?

(COMMENT)

No, this event is not relevant here.

• It casts a shadow on the loyalty of the US Commander to the safety of the fleet and US Navy assets.
  
• It casts a shadow on the loyalty and competence of the most senior civilian leadership at the time, and how they were willing to sacrifice service personnel.
  
• It cast doubt on the nature of the alliance between Israel and the US, and the trustworthiness of the IDF.

Beyond that, it has no relevance.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

The events made famous by the USS Liberty are historically important; from both a military and political leadership standpoint.

But, they are not significant, relevant, or tied to the accusation of "made for profit" that is slung here.

You still stuck on slave, Hossie?
If Dick and Dubya are American patriots, what do you call William McGonagle?
Why do you support those who profit from Liberty and turn your back on those pay for it?

(COMMENT)

No, this event is not relevant here.

• It casts a shadow on the loyalty of the US Commander to the safety of the fleet and US Navy assets.
  
• It casts a shadow on the loyalty and competence of the most senior civilian leadership at the time, and how they were willing to sacrifice service personnel.
  
• It cast doubt on the nature of the alliance between Israel and the US, and the trustworthiness of the IDF.

Beyond that, it has no relevance.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco...how relevant is it to you to find the truth about Israel's assault on Liberty?

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

I see this on different levels. I look at this event, as a political-military snapshot in time; not relevant to the political-military environment for today. But on another level, it is a reminder that an ally is not as clear cut as the definition of an ally would imply.

Rocco...how relevant is it to you to find the truth about Israel's assault on Liberty?

(COMMENT)

This even took place almost a half-century ago. The America today, is not the same America it was then. And the Israel of today, is not the same Israel that was back then.

For me, I have my personal belief that influences my attitude towards the Israel (less than favorable). Having said that, I also realize that some things won't be explained in my lifetime, and I can live with that. That doesn't mean that I am going to trust an Israeli to watch my back in a life & death struggle. While they are competent, extremely efficient, and very proficient armed fighters, as the incident demonstrates, they are not trustworthy. They will kill an American just as fast as they will kill a Palestinian. They will sacrifice an American if the outcome is in their favor.

But that is my personal opinion. It doesn't change the Israeli-Palestinian Paradigm, or how I evaluate the belligerents in terms of who is the antagonist and who is the protagonist.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

georgephillip, et al,

That doesn't mean that I am going to trust an Israeli to watch my back in a life & death struggle. While they are competent, extremely efficient, and very proficient armed fighters, as the incident demonstrates, they are not trustworthy. They will kill an American just as fast as they will kill a Palestinian. They will sacrifice an American if the outcome is in their favor.

But that is my personal opinion. It doesn't change the Israeli-Palestinian Paradigm, or how I evaluate the belligerents in terms of who is the antagonist and who is the protagonist.

Most Respectfully,
R

I almost agree with you Mr. R----with the small addition---that I do not
think that any of our allies are completely trustworthy in life and
death situations nor do I believe that aims and motivations and
behaviors WITHIN the ranks of any of our allies are uniform. For that
reason I do entertain the idea that someone in the line of command
----in the heat of war ---could very well have thought that the Liberty ---
even if he know it to be a US ship----was a danger to Israel.

Protecting ones own is the first LAW in the military-----which does
not always mean that everyone knows precisely the right thing to
do all the time. Mistakes in the military----even in peace time
are very prevalent----whether from clumsness, accident or
REALLY BAD JUDGEMENT----the captain of the titanic made
an AVOIDABLE mistake-------not long ago----a kid went down
in a US navy ship-----for another AVOIDABLE MISTAKE

I got close enough to military mistakes to know that it
is very difficult to know if there is "MOTIVE" and there
are always reasons to SUSPECT that there might be

 

[georgephillip]

georgephillip, et al,

I see this on different levels. I look at this event, as a political-military snapshot in time; not relevant to the political-military environment for today. But on another level, it is a reminder that an ally is not as clear cut as the definition of an ally would imply.

Rocco...how relevant is it to you to find the truth about Israel's assault on Liberty?

(COMMENT)

This even took place almost a half-century ago. The America today, is not the same America it was then. And the Israel of today, is not the same Israel that was back then.

For me, I have my personal belief that influences my attitude towards the Israel (less than favorable). Having said that, I also realize that some things won't be explained in my lifetime, and I can live with that. That doesn't mean that I am going to trust an Israeli to watch my back in a life & death struggle. While they are competent, extremely efficient, and very proficient armed fighters, as the incident demonstrates, they are not trustworthy. They will kill an American just as fast as they will kill a Palestinian. They will sacrifice an American if the outcome is in their favor.

But that is my personal opinion. It doesn't change the Israeli-Palestinian Paradigm, or how I evaluate the belligerents in terms of who is the antagonist and who is the protagonist.

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco... I suspect we both remember the summer of '67 when this event took place.
Had Liberty gone to the bottom with all hands lost, which country would have taken the blame?
It would not have been Israel, and Egypt would have paid the same price Iraq paid in 2003.
In one important regard the US is the same country it was in 1967; we are ruled by the richest 1% of our fellow Americans, and they've gotten much richer since that time. Their fortunes don't exist without war, and, quite possibly this should change how you define the belligerents as far as antagonist and protagonist.

I don't see how any "free" country could tolerate that degree of deception from its political elites.
Do you believe Liberty survivors deserve their CSPAN moment?

 

[irosie91]

I remember the event very well---details were broadcast -within the hour--
--during the rescue before any US support arrived-----
It was very obvious that if Israel wanted the ship

to go down-----it would have gone down -------the "ATTEMPT TO SINK
THE LIBERTY" thing is an identifying mark--- for utter IDIOT

 

[RoccoR]

georgephillip, et al,

Yes, I have similar thought.

Rocco... I suspect we both remember the summer of '67 when this event took place.
Had Liberty gone to the bottom with all hands lost, which country would have taken the blame?
It would not have been Israel, and Egypt would have paid the same price Iraq paid in 2003.
In one important regard the US is the same country it was in 1967; we are ruled by the richest 1% of our fellow Americans, and they've gotten much richer since that time. Their fortunes don't exist without war, and, quite possibly this should change how you define the belligerents as far as antagonist and protagonist.

I don't see how any "free" country could tolerate that degree of deception from its political elites.
Do you believe Liberty survivors deserve their CSPAN moment?

(COMMENT)

Two Points:

While the USS Liberty incident was a bit of political-military theater at the time, the time for it to have been the center of focus was then, not now. Today, it is merely a lesson learned.

Such re-dramatizing today of the event, now 46 years in the past, only serves to create a plane of animosity that is better left under the rug. Even if the real plot is more along the lines of a deception as you've described, it will be amplified for different reasons and used to by the pro-Palestinian movement to discredit Israel. It would be used to sway the American public in a one-sided effort focusing on today - and not the events of 1967.​

First, in the Report Assembled by Admiral Moore, it was clear from the evidence that the Israeli attack was a deliberate attempt to destroy the USS Liberty with all hands lost. The compelling evidence included supporting testimony from:

• Secretary of State Dean Rusk,
• Undersecretary of State George Ball,
• CIA director Richard Helms,
• NSA Director Lieutenant General William Odom, USA (Ret.),
• NSA Director Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, USN (Ret.),
• NSA Director Marshal Carter;
• NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby
• NSA Deputy Director Major General John Morrison, USAF (Ret.)
• Ambassador Dwight Porter, U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon

What most people will not get is the culpability of the several commanders of US Navy Vessels in receipt of the USS Liberty SOS, the 6th Fleet Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, and President Johnson (who was personally involved and recalled the second rescue launch). A distress call is a distress call. And in such a crisis, all available resources should have been focused on that request for assistance, given no other hostile involvement. The fact of the matter is, that the entire chain of command was corrupted. There should not have been a recall of the first launch of air support, let alone a second recall (DP).

The corrective action for that fault has long since been overtaken by events. The character of the US Administration has changed many times over, the leadership at in the Mediterranean Fleet has changed many times over, and the character of our commanders at sea have changed many times over. One would hope that such an incident would not reoccur (although the Benghazi controversy makes me wonder).

I venture to think that Admiral Thomas Moorer believes the White House and Israeli government covered up evidence on 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.

What the Israelis did is a lesson learned, and a wake-up call to beware of the IDF and their leadership. But the true shame was that we did not answer the call when the SOS went-out. There was no heroism shown by the 6th Fleet (Mediterranean) that day.

That is what will be lost. It is not so much about what the Israelis did (they were working in their own best interest for their nation), as it is about what we (Americans) didn't do to save our sailors at sea.

No, I don't agree that further enlightenment (a CNN/CSPAN moment) will serve any useful purpose.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[georgephillip]

I remember the event very well---details were broadcast -within the hour--
--during the rescue before any US support arrived-----
It was very obvious that if Israel wanted the ship

to go down-----it would have gone down -------the "ATTEMPT TO SINK
THE LIBERTY" thing is an identifying mark--- for utter IDIOT

How many teletypes did you read in that hour?

"On the day of the attack on the Liberty, I read yellow teletype sheets that spewed from the machines in front of me all day. We obtained our input from a variety of sources including the NSA.

"The teletypes were raw translations of intercepts of Israeli air-to-air and air-to-ground communications between jet aircraft and their ground controller. I read page after page of these transcripts that day as it went on and on.

"The transcripts made specific reference to the efforts to direct the jets to the target which was identified as American numerous times by the ground controller.

"Upon arrival, the aircraft specifically identified the target and mentioned the American flag she was flying.

"There were frequent operational transmissions from the pilots to the ground base describing the strafing runs.

"The ground control began asking about the status of the target and whether it was sinking.

"They stressed that the target must be sunk and leave no trace.

"The pilots stated they had made several runs and the target was still floating.

"The ground control station re-iterated that it was urgent that the target be sunk, leaving no trace. There was a detectable level of frustration evident in the transmissions over the fact that the aircraft were unable to accomplish the mission quickly and totally."

Statement of Stephen Forslund