Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't be so foolish....

Why is Israel the only country with that talking point?

(COMMENT)

Every executive meeting at the White House, each briefing of every Department Secretary from the third-level supervisor on up, usually has an agenda set - with each aspect covered by "Talking Point."

Israel does not have one single set of talking points and one talking point paper. Like the United States (and damn near every other sophisticated nation in the world), the talking points (on a myriad of subjects) are constantly being revised, as they are constantly evolving and adapting coming to grips and focusing on the real-world conditions of today and how they will effect the future. Example of a set of US Talking Points:

Description: http://leaksource.info/2015/02/16/secret-national-intelligence-council-talking-points-cast-doubt-on-us-governments-public-claims-of-anonymous-threat/ https://twitter.com/LeakSourceInfo
​

As a matter of fact, I've often been to governmental meetings in which the deputies and above had a binder with talking points within talking points.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

Not all the Palestinian summer camps for children are violent, in fact why is it things like this are never brought up?

Summer Camp Means Healthy Fun for Gaza Children - Anera

Mostly it's not brought up because it's not relevant to the points we try to make. We know not every single Gazan wants to erase Israel or kill Jews.

But there are clearly enough of those which do. And the government is promoting it in the vilest way. And there doesn't seem to be enough on the other side to counter it. As a "March" like this one proves.

 

[Shusha]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Don't be so foolish....

Why is Israel the only country with that talking point?

(COMMENT)

Every executive meeting at the White House, each briefing of every Department Secretary from the third-level supervisor on up, usually has an agenda set - with each aspect covered by "Talking Point."

Israel does not have one single set of talking points and one talking point paper. Like the United States (and damn near every other sophisticated nation in the world), the talking points (on a myriad of subjects) are constantly being revised, as they are constantly evolving and adapting coming to grips and focusing on the real-world conditions of today and how they will effect the future. Example of a set of US Talking Points:

View attachment 187687
Description: http://leaksource.info/2015/02/16/secret-national-intelligence-council-talking-points-cast-doubt-on-us-governments-public-claims-of-anonymous-threat/ https://twitter.com/LeakSourceInfo
​

As a matter of fact, I've often been to governmental meetings in which the deputies and above had a binder with talking points within talking points.

Most Respectfully,
R

I know, everyone has talking points. Some are legitimate, and some are BS propaganda. My post was about a specific talking point that I view as propaganda.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I have seen a lot of photos and videos of the protests. I haven't seen any guns.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Not all the Palestinian summer camps for children are violent, in fact why is it things like this are never brought up?

Summer Camp Means Healthy Fun for Gaza Children - Anera

Mostly it's not brought up because it's not relevant to the points we try to make. We know not every single Gazan wants to erase Israel or kill Jews.

But there are clearly enough of those which do. And the government is promoting it in the vilest way. And there doesn't seem to be enough on the other side to counter it. As a "March" like this one proves.

I haven't seen violence taught in schools except from Israeli propaganda organizations. I take those with a grain of salt.

 

[Coyote]

Not all the Palestinian summer camps for children are violent, in fact why is it things like this are never brought up?

Summer Camp Means Healthy Fun for Gaza Children - Anera

Mostly it's not brought up because it's not relevant to the points we try to make. We know not every single Gazan wants to erase Israel or kill Jews.

But there are clearly enough of those which do. And the government is promoting it in the vilest way. And there doesn't seem to be enough on the other side to counter it. As a "March" like this one proves.

I think the reason they are not brought up is the same reason that we hear about "melon farmers" instead of bomb planters. To show otherwise would destroy the narratives. On both sides.

And in rge meantime we have a dead journalist who from sll available evidence (not unsubstantiated claims) presented thus far should not have been killed.

 

[Coyote]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

 

[Shusha]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

 

[Coyote]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

increase them. Add water cannons if avsilable. Rubber bullets.

 

[Coyote]

Actually after reading this....
Violence Erupts Anew at Gaza-Israel Border in Third Week of Protests

I am not sure what Israel should do because the protesters are trying to tear down the fence. Israel does have a right to defend it's border.

This illustrates though how desperate things have become in Gaza and peopke will do desperate things when they see no options.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

increase them. Add water cannons if avsilable. Rubber bullets.

Why should a protest be "put down?" Shouldn't the Palestinians have free speech?

 

[Coyote]

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

increase them. Add water cannons if avsilable. Rubber bullets.

Why should a protest be "put down?" Shouldn't the Palestinians have free speech?

Free speech does not extend to property destruction or crashing another country's border.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

increase them. Add water cannons if avsilable. Rubber bullets.

Why should a protest be "put down?" Shouldn't the Palestinians have free speech?

Free speech does not extend to property destruction or crashing another country's border.

How peaceful would those protests be if they were not shot at as a first response. Israel initiated the violence.

 

[Humanity]

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

Funny that...

I have never condoned violence by Hamas... You have seen, over the time I have been here, my condemnation of violence by Hamas

Unlike your belief that it's ok for the IDF to shell or shoot unarmed Palestinians...

That, to me Shusha, is a significant difference. Your 'moderate' stance seems to have changed! Towing the Team Israel line now eh! Good for you!!!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

Yes, I think that this is an extreme;y important observation and question.

Not all the Palestinian summer camps for children are violent, in fact, why is it things like this are never brought up?

Summer Camp Means Healthy Fun for Gaza Children - Anera

(OBSERVATION and OPINION)

Propaganda in the real-world looks very much like what you see on the US Message Board (USMB). The initial positions are a "Blacker than Black" (BtB) → OPPOSING → "Whiter than White" (WtW). But are impossible positions to hold. Just as in the "real world" (RW), both positions begin hugely out-numbered but the outside observers and opponents, start to deteriorate rapidly. But just as nearly everyone will again that both the ByB and WtW positions (on any given subject) are extremist views, the degree of deterioration (as they collapse toward each other) is dependent on how each of us sees the real world. And that is the rub ('idiom for 'that is the problem').

We all know that the Arab Palestinians are NOT, as a tribal culture we see in Gaza and the West Bank in the news today, BtB. And we all know that the Israelis are NOT, as a reconstituted culture we see in the news today, WtW. These are axioms found in each RW view. Our experiences shift our medium RW view to something completely different. I guarantee you that no HAMAS member or foot soldier in the PIJ, prancing around in "no mans land" off the Israeli border sees the RW the same way as I do.

While there are people that see the good in everything (the Mother Theresa Syndrome) WtW; it is almost an invisible characteristic. People walk through it every day and don't notice it or few it. But the BtB makes noise, we feel it, it is something radically different from what we know to be normal. And for many of us, the Media shapes our view of the world. People see the BtB in the gray area faster before they will see a flash of WtW in a gray area. Compounding this set of conditions is the media focus. And this is the answer to the question:

Principles of Media Criticism
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was written sometime around 1997.
For a more recent (and more detailed) treatment of the current state of the media.
• WWW.TRANSPARENCYNOW.COM •​

■ The fact that most media, today, from news to advertising, rely on spectacle, simplification and exaggeration to grab and hold audiences.​

We would talk more about the WtW events and consequences if the media had a balanced approach, presentation and focus in that direction. Unfortunately, most media is shifted towards the BtB side of the spectrum of coverage. That has an impact on our view of the RW. I came across an observation that I would like to share with you.

“Philosophy is to the real world as masturbation is to sex”​

.................................................Karl Marks​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Humanity]

And today the unarmed civilians came unarmed with machine guns.

We will just skip over the previous days IDF murders then....

You mean like we skipped over the condemnation of Gazan violence?

I would much rather talk about what a proper, restrained response from Israel would look like to Team Palestine. But I can't have that conversation with people who pretend that everyone there is an unarmed civilian since it is a blatant rejection of the truth.

Maybe Coyote will help me answer that question.

I think that is a good question. It seems smoke bombs and teargas would have been a better response than live ammo.

They used those things. It did not deter everyone. What then?

Wow really? First time I have heard of THAT!

When was that exactly?

Please, don't expect us to take your word for it... Some links would be very useful (preferably NOT from the IDF)

 

[Billo_Really]

Is it, it thought the Warsaw Ghetto was supposed to be full of Jews...


Talking about ghetto:

Palestinians are the new Jews.

 

[Billo_Really]

Israeli Snipers are deliberately targeting innocent unarmed Palestinians? Link please.Even if it were true, I wouldn’t give s it l
Shit

Then why did you ask for the link?

You need a link to see what the rest of the world has been seeing for the past two weeks?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

That is the focus of the continuous demonstration.

Actually after reading this....
Violence Erupts Anew at Gaza-Israel Border in Third Week of Protests

I am not sure what Israel should do because the protesters are trying to tear down the fence. Israel does have a right to defend it's border.

This illustrates though how desperate things have become in Gaza and peopke will do desperate things when they see no options.

(COMMENT)

The intent is to create a violence confrontation, for its media effect. HAMAS want the Image of Israel to be a monsterous view of an oppressor. Remember, HAMAS want the Coalitions Governments to military engage Israel. And they need a horrendous event to make that happen.

Most Respectfully,
R