It Was Done on Tobacco. It Can Be Done on Guns.

[M14 Shooter]

I'll try now these were SEMI automatic

So?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You need to learn how to drive a car ,lessons and a license , but not for owning a gun?

You need a license to buy a car?
You need a license to own a car?
You need a license to keep a car on your property?
You need a license to operate a car on private property?

 

[Kondor3]

You need to learn how to drive a car ,lessons and a license , but not for owning a gun?

You need a license to buy a car?
You need a license to own a car?
You need a license to keep a car on your property?
You need a license to operate a car on private property?

You need a license to OPERATE a car.

Given that it's a lot easier to interdict the unlicensed driver of a car than it is an unlicensed gun-user...

Common sense dictates that we ensure the user is properly vetted an licensed before he takes possession of his newest Killing Tool...

 

[edward37]

I'll try now these were SEMI automatic

So?

So? if it's semi automatics responsible for mass killings why can't we make it a little difficult for those buying them?

 

[edward37]

Maybe these will help
Contributing factors[edit]
Several possible factors may work together to create a fertile environment for mass murder in the United States.[42] Most commonly suggested include:

1. Higher accessibility and ownership of guns.[42][5][13] The US has the highest per-capita gun ownership in the world with 120.5 firearms per 100 people; the second highest is Yemen with 52.8 firearms per 100 people.[42]
2. Mental illness[43] and its treatment (or the lack thereof) with psychiatric drugs.[44] This is controversial.[45][46] Many of the mass shooters in the U.S. suffered from mental illness, but the estimated number of mental illness cases has not increased as significantly as the number of mass shootings.[5] Under 5% of violent behaviors in the U.S. are committed by persons with mental health diagnoses.[47]
3. The desire to seek revenge for a long history of being bullied at school. In recent years, citizens calling themselves "targeted individual" have cited adult bullying campaigns as a reason for their deadly violence.[48]
4. The widespread chronic gap between people's expectations for themselves and their actual achievement,[42] and individualistic culture.[49] Some analysts and commentators place the blame on contemporary capitalism and neoliberalism.[50][51][52]
5. Desire for fame and notoriety.[42][5] Also, mass shooters learn from one another through "media contagion," that is, "the mass media coverage of them and the proliferation of social media sites that tend to glorify the shooters and downplay the victims."[53][54]
6. The copycat phenomenon.[5]
7. Failure of government background checks due to incomplete databases and/or staff shortages.[55][56]

A panel of mental health and law enforcement experts has estimated that roughly one-third of acts of mass violence — defined as crimes in which four or more people were killed — since the 1990s were committed by people with a serious mental illness. However, the study emphasized that people with serious mental illness are responsible for less than 4% of all the violent acts committed in the United States.[57]

 

[Kondor3]

...So you're saying when legal access to guns is limited, criminals manage to get 'em anyway. Yeah ... stuff your gun-control where the sun don't shine.

Nope.
I'm saying that when the supply of guns coming from East-to-Buy States has dried up...

What rational reason do you have to think that will ever happen?

Simple math... when there are no East Purchase states for gun-runners to go to, to pick up their next trunk-full, the trunk remains empty.

 

[Kondor3]

...Then you recognize the fallacy of your position. Good.

Incorrect. That is merely your 'take' on the matter. Immaterial.

Why do you refuse to understand that people in Illinois cannot simply go to Wisconsin, fill their trunk with guns, and legally bring them back to Illinois?

When will you understand that I, in turn, already understand your point?

MY point, on the other hand, is that Easy-To-Purchase-Guns states are where the gun-runners get their stash, to bring to the outskirts of those Urban Plantations.

 

[M14 Shooter]

You need to learn how to drive a car ,lessons and a license , but not for owning a gun?

You need a license to buy a car?
You need a license to own a car?
You need a license to keep a car on your property?
You need a license to operate a car on private property?

You need a license to OPERATE a car.

On public property.
But not to buy one, own one, keep it on your property or operate it on private property.

Common sense dictates that we ensure the user is properly vetted an licensed before he takes possession of his newest Killing Tool...

Just like a car.

 

[2aguy]

The one good thing Trump and republicans are responsible for ,,,,,,They have changed my mind about the death penalty

So....I take it you realize you were wrong on the rifle thing...right?

Partly

Look......if you simply post more rationally we could actually have a conversation about common sense gun control....like Constitutional carry in every state, national Right to carry guns.....things that would actually make the country safer....

I'll try now these were SEMI automatic
Deadliest mass shootings since 1949[edit]
Main article: List of mass shootings in the United States
The following mass shootings are the deadliest to have occurred in modern U.S. history (1949 to present). Only incidents with ten or more victim fatalities are included.[65]

Was previously the deadliest mass shooting
Incident Year Deaths Injuries Type of firearm(s) used Ref(s)
1 Las Vegas shooting 2017 58 (plus 1 perp.) 851 (422 from gunfire) Semi-automatic rifles and revolver [66][67]
2 Orlando nightclub shooting

2016 49 (plus 1 perp.) 53 Semi-automatic rifle and pistol [66][67]
3 Virginia Tech shooting

2007 32 (plus 1 perp.) 23 (17 from gunfire) Semi-automatic pistols [66]
4 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting 2012 27 (plus 1 perp.) 2 Semi-automatic rifle and pistol [66]
5 Sutherland Springs church shooting 2017 26 (plus 1 perp.)[fn 1] 20 Semi-automatic rifle [68][67]
6 Luby's shooting

1991 23 (plus 1 perp.) 27 Semi-automatic pistols [66]
7 El Paso Walmart shooting 2019 22 24 Semi-automatic rifle [69][70]
8 San Ysidro McDonald's massacre

1984 21 (plus 1 perp.) 19 Semi-automatic carbine, pistols, and shotgun [66]
9 Stoneman Douglas High School shooting 2018 17 17 Semi-automatic rifle [71]
10 University of Texas tower shooting

1966 16 (plus 1 perp. plus 1 victim who died in 2001[fn 1]) 31 Rifles, revolver, pistols, and shotgun [66]
11 Edmond post office shooting 1986 14 (plus 1 perp.) 6 Semi-automatic pistols [66]
San Bernardino attack 2015 14 (plus 2 perps.) 24 Semi-automatic rifles [66][67]
Fort Hood shooting 2009 14[fn 1] 32 (plus 1 perp.) Semi-automatic pistol and revolver [72][73]
14 Camden shootings

1949 13 3 Semi-automatic pistol [74][75]
Wilkes-Barre shootings 1982 13 1 Semi-automatic rifle [76][77][78]
Wah Mee massacre 1983 13 1 Semi-automatic pistol(s) and/or revolver(s)[fn 2] [79]
Columbine High School massacre 1999 13 (plus 2 perps.) 24 (21 from gunfire) Semi-automatic carbine, semi-automatic pistol, shotguns [80]
Binghamton shootings 2009 13 (plus 1 perp.) 4 Semi-automatic pistols [81]
19 Atlanta shootings 1999 12 (plus 1 perp.) 13 Pistol
Aurora theater shooting 2012 12 70 Semi-automatic rifle, pistol, and shotgun [82][67][83]
Washington Navy Yard shooting 2013 12 (plus 1 perp.) 8 Semi-automatic pistol and shotgun [84][85]
Thousand Oaks shooting 2018 12 (plus 1 perp.) 25 Semi-automatic pistol [86][87]
Virginia Beach shooting 2019 12 (plus 1 perp.) 5 Semi-automatic pistols [88]
23 Easter Sunday massacre 1975 11 0 Semi-automatic pistols and revolver [89]
Pittsburgh synagogue shooting 2018 11 6 (plus 1 perp.) Semi-automatic rifle, semi-automatic pistols [90]
25 Palm Sunday massacre 1984 10 0 Semi-automatic pistols [91]
Geneva County massacre 2009 10 (plus 1 perp.) 6 Semi-automatic rifles, revolver, and shotgun [92][93]
Santa Fe High School shooting 2018 10 14 Shotgun and revolver [94]
See also

Yes....and all of them could also have bee done with pump action shotguns or revolvers.....

The Russian Polytechnic school shooter used a tube fed, 5 shot, pump action shotgun to kill 20 and wound 40.....it isn't the weapon that is the issue or the magazine...since a 10 round magazine is easy to change since the shooter isn't being shot at and he is shooting unarmed people.

The issue is the amount of time the shooter has before someone with a gun makes him stop....even the Vegas shooter....the only reason he had such a high count was the fact he had free time to shoot.....the police stacked up outside his door but didn't enter because of a fear of bombs.......and he also selected the target....a tightly packed crowd of over 22,000 people, at night, with loud, deafening music hiding his initial shots....

We need common sense gun control.....that means ending these gun free killing zones....

You do know that mass shooters select gun free zones specifically because they don't want to be stopped by people with guns...right? So ending gun free zones will severely llimit where these nuts can attack.

 

[M14 Shooter]

...Then you recognize the fallacy of your position. Good.

Incorrect. That is merely your 'take' on the matter. Immaterial.

Why do you refuse to understand that people in Illinois cannot simply go to Wisconsin, fill their trunk with guns, and legally bring them back to Illinois?

When will you understand that I, in turn, already understand your point?

And yet, you believe -another- law will prevent people from breaking an -existing- law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Maybe these will help

Help what?

 

[2aguy]

...Then you recognize the fallacy of your position. Good.

Incorrect. That is merely your 'take' on the matter. Immaterial.

Why do you refuse to understand that people in Illinois cannot simply go to Wisconsin, fill their trunk with guns, and legally bring them back to Illinois?

When will you understand that I, in turn, already understand your point?

MY point, on the other hand, is that Easy-To-Purchase-Guns states are where the gun-runners get their stash, to bring to the outskirts of those Urban Plantations.

Sorry...so what......Chicago has more gun murder than Houston, no gun stores, no gun ranges....Houston has gun stores on almost every corner, easy concealed and open carry....yet a lower murder rate with easier access to guns...the gun runners don't have to run guns to Houston, they are already there, yet their gun murder rate is lower...so your theory doesn't hold.....add to that the fact that Texas shares a border with the Narco state of Mexico...

Guns aren't the issue in democrat voting districts....democrat judges in these places keep letting repeat gun offenders out on bail and out of prison with short prison sentences...that is why they have the problem....it isn't guns...it is left wing criminal justice policies.

 

[Kondor3]

...Sorry...so what......Chicago has more gun murder than Houston, no gun stores, no gun ranges....Houston has gun stores on almost every corner, easy concealed and open carry....yet a lower murder rate with easier access to guns...

You have a higher percentage of legally owned guns and a much lower percentage of illegally owned guns than does Democratic Plantation Chicago.

 

[edward37]

Maybe these will help

Help what?

Help get you to understand some ways of not stopping gun violence but reducing them

 

[M14 Shooter]

Maybe these will help

Help what?

Help get you to understand some ways of not stopping gun violence but reducing them

Oh... Ok...
How about making it easier for the victims, or potential victims, to defend themselves?

 

[edward37]

Maybe these will help

Help what?

Help get you to understand some ways of not stopping gun violence but reducing them

Oh... Ok...
How about making it easier for the victims, or potential victims, to defend themselves?

Give teachers preachers etc etc the right to carry ..or give the right to carry to everyone???

 

[2aguy]

Maybe these will help

Help what?

Help get you to understand some ways of not stopping gun violence but reducing them

Oh... Ok...
How about making it easier for the victims, or potential victims, to defend themselves?

Give teachers preachers etc etc the right to carry ..or give the right to carry to everyone???

Everyone who isn't a criminal who chooses to carry a gun for self defense.

 

[edward37]

You want to go to a movie or show or concert when everyone can be carrying ,,,and some might be drunk as a skunk?

 

[edward37]

Maybe these will help

Help what?

Help get you to understand some ways of not stopping gun violence but reducing them

Oh... Ok...
How about making it easier for the victims, or potential victims, to defend themselves?

Give teachers preachers etc etc the right to carry ..or give the right to carry to everyone???

Everyone who isn't a criminal who chooses to carry a gun for self defense.

How do you know that gun carrier isn't going to rob a store using that gun ,,or shooting the guy messing with his wife?

 

[2aguy]

You want to go to a movie or show or concert when everyone can be carrying ,,,and some might be drunk as a skunk?

Yep.......that way you know that mass shooters will not attack.....the Aurora theater shooter chose the gun free theater, instead of the Airport, or other theaters that allowed concealed carry......and if you are drunk and carrying a gun, you can already be arrested......

Virginia allowed concealed carry in bars...their gun crime rate in bars went down 5.2%......your fears are not based on actual events...

Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result - WND



When Virginia passed a law allowing concealed carry in bars and alcohol-serving restaurants beginning July 1 of last year, opponents of the change decried the dangers of mixing guns and alcohol, for fear violent crimes would escalate.

But one year later, the Richmond Times-Dispatch did a study to see if the gloomy prognostications came true.

According to state police records, not only did gun violence in bars and restaurants not increase under the new law, it decreased by 5.2 percent.

In fact, of the 145 reported crimes with guns that occurred in Virginia bars and restaurants in fiscal 2010-11 (compared to 153 incidents in the year before the new law took effect), only two of the aggravated assault cases were related to concealed-carry permit holders. In one incident, the crime took place at a restaurant that didn’t serve alcohol – thus unrelated to the new law – and in the other, the weapon was neither discharged nor withdrawn from its holster.

“The numbers basically just confirm what we’ve said would happen if the General Assembly changed the law,” Philip Van Cleave, president of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, told the Times-Dispatch. “Keep in mind what the other side was saying – that this was going to be a blood bath, that restaurants will be dangerous and people will stop going. But there was nothing to base the fear-mongering on.”


Read more at Allowing guns into bars has 'surprising' result - WND



More.....actual research by Richmond Times-Dispatch

Gun crimes drop at Virginia bars and restaurants

The number of major crimes involving firearms at bars and restaurants statewide declined 5.2 percent from July 1, 2010, to June 30, 2011, compared with the fiscal year before the law went into effect, according to crime data compiled by Virginia State Police at the newspaper's request.

--------------------------

At The Times-Dispatch's request, state police pulled from their computerized database all major crimes at bars and restaurants reported by local law-enforcement agencies across Virginia for two successive fiscal years. The Times-Dispatch then contacted more than a dozen police departments in Virginia for more detailed information on all aggravated assaults, homicides and sexual assaults involving firearms at those businesses.
Reported robberies were not analyzed because they tend to involve premeditated crimes by perpetrators openly displaying guns, and many of the affected businesses are chain restaurants that don't serve alcohol.
Only two fatal shootings occurred during the last fiscal year — one outside a Petersburg nightclub and the other at a Radford restaurant — but neither involved concealed-gun permit holders. And only two of the 18 aggravated assaults reported could be linked definitively to concealed-carry holders.
Several other cases appear to have involved hidden guns, but the suspects either didn't have a concealed permit, or they fled the scene before they could be identified and arrested.
One of the few unambiguous cases of a concealed-gun permit holder breaking the law occurred on July 28, 2010 — 27 days after the law became active — at a deli in York County. In that case, a patron who had been drinking heavily with a gun concealed in his pocket allegedly sexually harassed a female waitress and, at one point, placed his hand over his hidden gun so the waitress could see its outline.
After making a comment the waitress construed as a threat, the man left but was stopped a short time later by police. They recovered a .380-caliber pistol from his pants pocket and charged him with driving under the influence, brandishing a firearm and carrying a concealed weapon.
He was charged with the latter offense — even though he had a permit to carry the gun — because he had been drinking in the deli while in possession of a concealed firearm. The law forbids concealed-gun permit holders to drink alcohol while they are inside bars and restaurants with guns hidden from view. Patrons who legally carry firearms openly into bars and restaurants can drink freely.
Authorities confiscated the man's concealed-gun permit, but the brandishing and concealed weapon charges were eventually withdrawn by prosecutors. He was convicted of driving while drunk.
In another case closer to home, a Hopewell man with a concealed-carry permit was arrested in June after police said he brandished a gun in the parking lot of a chain restaurant after a verbal dispute escalated into a fight among several patrons. No shots were fired, but punches were thrown.
Although the man pulled a concealed weapon during the fight, the new law didn't really apply because the restaurant where the incident occurred doesn't serve alcohol. The man was convicted last month of brandishing the gun — which he appealed — and a malicious-wounding charge was certified to a Hopewell grand jury.
Aside from the two homicides, the only assault that resulted in a person being shot occurred in February outside a Virginia Beach restaurant and bar. The shooting followed an altercation inside the restaurant. Several unknown men were asked to leave, and the victim was shot and wounded as he walked toward a male in an adjacent parking lot, police said.
But because the suspect was never identified and arrested, police don't know whether the shooter was carrying a concealed gun or whether he had a permit to carry it.