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how can one say a majority of Christians believe in "The Rapture" when there are so many different opinions as to what it is?.....or even if it is/was/will be.......
if I believe that at the time of the second coming the believers will rise up to meet the Christ and he immediately begins the judgment, am I a "rapture believer"?.....
Vox you have ignored every question I have asked you.
Matthew disagrees with your opinion that no one has come back from the grave yet.
What do you do with this statement he told us?
I was not talking on the issue of coming back from the grave at all, you must have mixed me with somebody else.
Matthew 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
And he didn't stop there. He goes on to tell us what they did, where they went, what Christ did and said, and that they all went to Heaven, together.
Unless you're meeting with Christ and getting your information first hand, then when you say "Jesus said", or not, you are relying on what some person is telling you Christ said. And either they are telling us the "gospel truth", or the truth is not in them.
Matthew was there, telling us what he saw and heard. It's either all true or none. If only parts of it are true, how do you know which parts of his testimony are and what parts aren't? The very same person that told you what Jesus said, saw dead people. Walking to town, with Jesus. If he is wrong about that what else is he wrong about?
And if Revelation has already occurred, I have even more questions that there should be answers to. Who was the beast and what mark was he insisting the beheaded saints take, and in what form? Tattoo or chip?
How was he able to be sure he tatted everyone in the world so that no one could buy or sell without the mark?
When did the blood rise up to the bridles of the horses gathered at Meggido,
and the most important question I have is, where is Christ? He returns at the end of Revelation. In fact, Him returning IS the Reveal. It isn't Revelations the book of prophesies, it is the Revelation, the revealing of Christ. His second coming that you refer to. Is that part symbolism, or is He actually coming, and how can you tell the difference between the two?
John even told us the exact location of His foot touching this earth again, and that it would create an earthquake, that would split the Mt. of Olives apart. It's still a mountain.
Where is the Kingdom He has set up from the throne of David?
What was the name written on His thigh?
Which 2 prophets laid dead in the street for 3 1/2 days? Enoch and Elijah, or Moses and Elijah? And how did the world watch them? There were no satellites to broadcast that event to the world wide?
When was the Roman Empire revived? It was still THE empire in 1 AD. And Israel was still under their rule in 1AD. It is specifically noted in the Bible that Israel would not be in the hands of Gentiles when the revealing of Christ takes place.
These are valid questions, and if you are right, there should be valid answers to them, and we should be able to discuss them in the spirit of peacefulness. I'd like to understand why you believe what you do, and I have questions about what you believe. And I hope we can discuss things in the spirit of love for one another, because if you believe with your heart one thing, and I believe in my heart something different, God appoints it righteous to us both. It isn't doctrine that excites Him, it is the faith in our hearts.
Post, you disagree also with Vox. You think Christ raised everyone in Hades. Where do you think they are right now?
how can one say a majority of Christians believe in "The Rapture" when there are so many different opinions as to what it is?.....or even if it is/was/will be.......
if I believe that at the time of the second coming the believers will rise up to meet the Christ and he immediately begins the judgment, am I a "rapture believer"?.....
Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more .
]
what happens after we die is considered in a different manner according to the branch of the Christianity you belong. .
He did.What is your faith based on ma'am?Faith.
I'm not a sir, madame.
How do you know what happens when you die? You base it on a book? On faith? On ... the hokey pokey?
Your feelings?
My faith is based on Scripture, aka God's Word, aka The Bible.
Why won't you answer my question?
There is this thing called revelation. If you take an unbiblical stance, you aren't open to God's light.
Vox you have ignored every question I have asked you.
Matthew disagrees with your opinion that no one has come back from the grave yet.
What do you do with this statement he told us?
I was not talking on the issue of coming back from the grave at all, you must have mixed me with somebody else.
Matthew 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
And he didn't stop there. He goes on to tell us what they did, where they went, what Christ did and said, and that they all went to Heaven, together.
Unless you're meeting with Christ and getting your information first hand, then when you say "Jesus said", or not, you are relying on what some person is telling you Christ said. And either they are telling us the "gospel truth", or the truth is not in them.
Matthew was there, telling us what he saw and heard. It's either all true or none. If only parts of it are true, how do you know which parts of his testimony are and what parts aren't? The very same person that told you what Jesus said, saw dead people. Walking to town, with Jesus. If he is wrong about that what else is he wrong about?
And if Revelation has already occurred, I have even more questions that there should be answers to. Who was the beast and what mark was he insisting the beheaded saints take, and in what form? Tattoo or chip?
How was he able to be sure he tatted everyone in the world so that no one could buy or sell without the mark?
When did the blood rise up to the bridles of the horses gathered at Meggido,
and the most important question I have is, where is Christ? He returns at the end of Revelation. In fact, Him returning IS the Reveal. It isn't Revelations the book of prophesies, it is the Revelation, the revealing of Christ. His second coming that you refer to. Is that part symbolism, or is He actually coming, and how can you tell the difference between the two?
John even told us the exact location of His foot touching this earth again, and that it would create an earthquake, that would split the Mt. of Olives apart. It's still a mountain.
Where is the Kingdom He has set up from the throne of David?
What was the name written on His thigh?
Which 2 prophets laid dead in the street for 3 1/2 days? Enoch and Elijah, or Moses and Elijah? And how did the world watch them? There were no satellites to broadcast that event to the world wide?
When was the Roman Empire revived? It was still THE empire in 1 AD. And Israel was still under their rule in 1AD. It is specifically noted in the Bible that Israel would not be in the hands of Gentiles when the revealing of Christ takes place.
These are valid questions, and if you are right, there should be valid answers to them, and we should be able to discuss them in the spirit of peacefulness. I'd like to understand why you believe what you do, and I have questions about what you believe. And I hope we can discuss things in the spirit of love for one another, because if you believe with your heart one thing, and I believe in my heart something different, God appoints it righteous to us both. It isn't doctrine that excites Him, it is the faith in our hearts.
Post, you disagree also with Vox. You think Christ raised everyone in Hades. Where do you think they are right now?
Revelation describes the events of the First Century AD, some of it has a symbolic meaning but not a literal prediction. And as I said before - I do not consider Revelation to be the centerpiece of Christianity and am amazed on the idolatry around it.
on other points - you clearly mixed me with somebody else, I was not talking about Hadws at all
The Second Coming won't be until after the 1000 year reign.
It is my opinion that unless you teach through the Bible, you will miss a lot of things.
You can believe it, but it is not backed up by scripture.
No, the second coming and the rapture are 2 different events. But believing that Christ brought those in Hades back, does make you a believer in rapture. There have been more than one raptures in the Bible.
Judgment for what and whom? Not for those in Christ. Not the sins of those who accepted the 'gift of no sin' through Christ. They are not remembered. If you don't remember where you put your keys, can you drive? How can you be judged for your sins if no one remembers them?
The Second Coming won't be until after the 1000 year reign.
and if Jesus disagrees with you will you tell him to go away?.....
You can believe it, but it is not backed up by scripture.
well, actually, it's the one thing that the scriptures specifically states WILL happen....the part in question is whether Jesus is going to turn around and go home when they meet him......
No, the second coming and the rapture are 2 different events. But believing that Christ brought those in Hades back, does make you a believer in rapture. There have been more than one raptures in the Bible.
Judgment for what and whom? Not for those in Christ. Not the sins of those who accepted the 'gift of no sin' through Christ. They are not remembered. If you don't remember where you put your keys, can you drive? How can you be judged for your sins if no one remembers them?
then here's the kicker......if I pay no attention to the issue of raptures, but simply believe in Christ as savior, I still end up in heaven......and I haven't had to waste any energy worrying about which rapture I believe in......I consider that a plus.....
It is my opinion that unless you teach through the Bible, you will miss a lot of things.
I'm fairly certain I won't miss the Second Coming.......
No, it was not me. I actually believe quite the oppositeI may have. Wasn't it you who said we all remain in the grave until the second coming?
And not only is Revelation study not idolatry, But Jesus said there is a blessing attached to our understanding it. There is more written about the end times than any other time in the Bible It details the return of our Lord, a pretty key component in the life of Christ.
If Christ was revealed in 1 AD, but no one saw Him, then was his return to earth symbolic? He's not actually coming back? He'll never actually touch down on the Mt. of Olives? Or set up His kingdom on David's throne?
And how do you glean the symbolic references from the actual ones in Revelation?
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what happens after we die is considered in a different manner according to the branch of the Christianity you belong. .
What branch of the Christianity do I belong to?
I am very curious since I have never encountered any with which I can agree or hasn't wholeheartedly thrown me out of their mind numbing study sessions.
They don't seem to like being disturbed when they turn out the lights and start eating the brains of their students.
The Second Coming won't be until after the 1000 year reign.
and if Jesus disagrees with you will you tell him to go away?.....
The Second Coming won't be until after the 1000 year reign.
and if Jesus disagrees with you will you tell him to go away?.....
Did you have a personal chat with Him where he told you that?
