It's a False Doctrine That People Go To Heaven Immediately After Death

[Mertex]

Christianity is so mixed up now with Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and smaller denominations, what they believe depends a lot on who you're talking to.

That's why it's upon each person to research it until they are satisfied with what they believe.

Many that are mixed up have just accepted a teaching without researching it in prayer and diligence. But the basic part is very easy....believe and follow, if you have that, a lot of the other stuff won't matter that it is different than what someone else believes.

 

[PostmodernProph]

You don't make any sense. You asked me that if Jesus disagrees with me, will I tell him to go away?

Why would he disagree with what I'm quoting from the Bible? That's why I asked you if he had spoken to you and told you something different than what is in the Bible.

I think my statement makes sense.....I asked you a question......it was not a statement.....you asked if Jesus told me that......why would Jesus tell me a question to ask you?.....

let me rephrase the question......if you find out your interpretation of the Bible is wrong are you going to argue with God about it or just go along anyway?.......

If I find out that my interpretation of the Bible is wrong, then I will suffer the consequence, just like everyone else who has their own interpretation. I don't know that there will be reason to argue with God, because some of the things that are "questionable" are not the things that will keep you out of heaven.

It is hardly possible for anyone to misinterpret the requirements for going to heaven...

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life"

Believe that Jesus is the Son of God.....then make Him Lord of your life...it's not that difficult.

/whoosh!......

 

[PostmodernProph]

You are the only one that is arguing....we are just telling you what the Bible indicates, if that causes you pain or indignation, you're the one with the problem.

/grins........right, the 237 divisions of the Baptist Church aren't arguing about millenialism......I'm the one with the problem......

 

[rdean]

What's "heaven"?

 

[Vox]

What's "heaven"?

for you? worshiping obama forever.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

What's "heaven"?

Unlike other religions, Judaism doesn't go into much detail about what the next world is. One notable mention of it with some descriptions is a story from the Zohar (Jewish metaphysics) mentioning the man who was ressurected is forbidden to speak of what he saw in heaven. But he was allowed to mention that "...as my son quoted Torah thousands of heavenly chairs shook before the Throne Of Glory..." ("Mother and Nest" readable here in forum somewhere, search for it)

From this we can infer we have bodies that would benefit from being seated in a chair (as does G-d if He sits on something.) Also that there's gravity in heaven if chairs are shaking, they're obiously not floating around. And for some reason, though G-d may decide to return you to life, you're forbidden to describe what you saw.

If G-d is in fact some flesh and blood alien, being forbidden from describing that little fact makes a lot of sense.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I'm not going directly to heaven. I plan on stopping by the Jack Danials distillary and stock up before I go to heaven. There is always the possiblity that they don't have any Black Jack , not to mention Gentleman Jack, or Single Barrel Jack, in heaven. I suspect that they do, but one wants to be prepared.

 

[Mertex]

You are the only one that is arguing....we are just telling you what the Bible indicates, if that causes you pain or indignation, you're the one with the problem.

/grins........right, the 237 divisions of the Baptist Church aren't arguing about millenialism......I'm the one with the problem......

I was talking about here on this thread....and yeah, you sound like you have a problem...arguing about what others are arguing about. Your argument is that they shouldn't discuss it.....which is arguing, just the same.

 

[Mertex]

I think my statement makes sense.....I asked you a question......it was not a statement.....you asked if Jesus told me that......why would Jesus tell me a question to ask you?.....

let me rephrase the question......if you find out your interpretation of the Bible is wrong are you going to argue with God about it or just go along anyway?.......

If I find out that my interpretation of the Bible is wrong, then I will suffer the consequence, just like everyone else who has their own interpretation. I don't know that there will be reason to argue with God, because some of the things that are "questionable" are not the things that will keep you out of heaven.

It is hardly possible for anyone to misinterpret the requirements for going to heaven...

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life"

Believe that Jesus is the Son of God.....then make Him Lord of your life...it's not that difficult.

/whoosh!......

And what is that supposed to mean? That too difficult for you?

 

[Mertex]

What's "heaven"?

for you? worshiping obama forever.

Geez, do you attack everybody? I thought you only did it to me.

 

[The Irish Ram]

No, it was not me.

In any case this was the post of yours, that my counter point was directed.

Nope. There is only ONE Judgement - General, Final or the Last - and there is not going to be any 1000 reign before that. That's a fantasy of the last ~ 200 years without any corroboration form the words of Our Lord Himself.
HE was quite straight on the issue ( and had never ever mentioned 3 Judgements, Millennial Kingdoms and Third Comings) - there is going to be only ONE Judgement of all and everybody with the rising of the dead and EVERYBODY will be Judged, including those which have long have been purified long before and are already in Heaven - their Judgement will be pretty symbolic and after that the ones on the Right will proceed to eternal heaven and the ones on the Left - to eternal damnation.

Those are the words of Our Lord Himself.
No need in fantasizing and distorting them.

And, No, Vox. I'm sorry but they are not His words. He said He was setting up shop in Israel, His inheritance. If His followers are never separated from Him again, how are they going to be in Heaven for eternity when he's relocating to earth?

The same people that told you what Christ said, told you more about Him. You have shunned all of their information except for the red words in the Bible. And to make up for what you passed over in the Book, you relied on self to complete the picture.

Not every one rises at the same time or even at the same event. You ignored that part of the Bible. His return to earth to rule and reign for 1,000 years before He holds the White Throne Judgment is scriptural. And I quoted it for you. Some formally dead, are alive at the beginning of the 1,000 years to rule and reign with Christ and some aren't raised until after the 1,000 years, for the WTJ.
The same person that told you what Christ said, told you that very thing. And that Satan who will have been restrained since the Nations Judgment will even be loosened for a short time immediately prior to the WTJ.
You can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible you think are symbolism and what you think may be literal.
Christ can't kind of judge and punish indiscriminately, some literally and some symbolically. He doesn't even have the discretion to lighten one's sentence or harshen another's for the same crime. He must be 100% just in meting out rewards, crowns, or punishment for sin. < to those who didn't accept Christ's gift of sin free blood in place of their own.

You have also reinvented Heaven. You don't go there for eternity if you are in the correct lane, It is coming here. How large is New Jerusalem? If it's "more symbolism", why give it's exact dimensions?
And you have confused the Judgment of the Nations (right and left sides or aka sheep vs goats) when He returns to prevent man from annihilation of all life on earth at end the tribulation, with the WTJ.
I provided you with the scripture on why He judges the nations after the trib., so they won't create a problem for Israel during His 1,000 year reign.
That is completely different than the WTJ <( no right or left lanes. and none of His sheep on the docket.) that takes place after the thousand year reign. Two completely different events. Both scriptural and literal.

And you have His first coming/revealing< cross, confused with His second coming/revealing< Lion of Judah

But here's the good part. If you know nothing at all except for the faith in the passages which quote the Lord, then you don't need to believe in the rapture. You'll be going up to meet Him in the air, anyway.

Christ en/trusted the people that have given us what knowledge of Jesus we have today. He felt they were the ones reliable enough to feed us. "Jesus said" to them, to feed His sheep. We are the sheep. I don't know of one preacher that confines His education about the Lord, to Jesus' quotes, exclusively.
It's all about Jesus.

 

[PostmodernProph]

I was talking about here on this thread....and yeah, you sound like you have a problem...arguing about what others are arguing about. Your argument is that they shouldn't discuss it.....which is arguing, just the same.

/shrugs....my "argument" is that the argument carries the weight of a thousand mosquito farts......when he comes, he's going to do what he chooses to do, not what anyone has predicted he will do.....and if we're believers, it doesn't really matter what he does......we're simply going to do it, too......

 

[PostmodernProph]

And what is that supposed to mean? That too difficult for you?

nope.....that's the sound of you missing my point as it goes past your head....

 

[Vox]

What's "heaven"?

for you? worshiping obama forever.

Geez, do you attack everybody? I thought you only did it to me.

piss off or stay on track of the discussion. life is not evolving around you even if you wish so.

 

[Mertex]

I was talking about here on this thread....and yeah, you sound like you have a problem...arguing about what others are arguing about. Your argument is that they shouldn't discuss it.....which is arguing, just the same.

/shrugs....my "argument" is that the argument carries the weight of a thousand mosquito farts......when he comes, he's going to do what he chooses to do, not what anyone has predicted he will do.....and if we're believers, it doesn't really matter what he does......we're simply going to do it, too......

Well, that's true, but there is no harm in trying to figure out what some of what was told to us in the Bible means.....that's just our nature, the way He made us. And researching it and providing an interpretation is not arguing. Based on other things that are told in the Bible, one can make a better decision about what is right - when you spend time in the Bible, and you discover something, you want to share it, not claim that it is not important.

And, when someone asks you what you know about God/Jesus, you don't want to appear clueless, and claim that it's not important to know anything else other than being saved, because the more you know about Him, the more you are able to share.

Obviously he wanted us to try and figure it out or it wouldn't have been mentioned, and if he wanted us to know outright, he would have made it plain and clear.....

 

[Mertex]

And what is that supposed to mean? That too difficult for you?

nope.....that's the sound of you missing my point as it goes past your head....

Well, maybe if you learned to express yourself more clearly, your point would be obvious?

What was your point? Did you have one?

 

[Mertex]

for you? worshiping obama forever.

Geez, do you attack everybody? I thought you only did it to me.

piss off or stay on track of the discussion. life is not evolving around you even if you wish so.

Says the one that brings "politics" into a discussion regarding religion.....seems to me you and the Prophet have a chip on your shoulders....maybe it's further down from the shoulders?
How is your personal attack relevant to the discussion? Life doesn't revolve around your vitriol, either.

 

[Vox]

No, it was not me.

In any case this was the post of yours, that my counter point was directed.

Nope. There is only ONE Judgement - General, Final or the Last - and there is not going to be any 1000 reign before that. That's a fantasy of the last ~ 200 years without any corroboration form the words of Our Lord Himself.
HE was quite straight on the issue ( and had never ever mentioned 3 Judgements, Millennial Kingdoms and Third Comings) - there is going to be only ONE Judgement of all and everybody with the rising of the dead and EVERYBODY will be Judged, including those which have long have been purified long before and are already in Heaven - their Judgement will be pretty symbolic and after that the ones on the Right will proceed to eternal heaven and the ones on the Left - to eternal damnation.

Those are the words of Our Lord Himself.
No need in fantasizing and distorting them.

And, No, Vox. I'm sorry but they are not His words. He said He was setting up shop in Israel, His inheritance. If His followers are never separated from Him again, how are they going to be in Heaven for eternity when he's relocating to earth?

The same people that told you what Christ said, told you more about Him. You have shunned all of their information except for the red words in the Bible. And to make up for what you passed over in the Book, you relied on self to complete the picture.

Not every one rises at the same time or even at the same event. You ignored that part of the Bible. His return to earth to rule and reign for 1,000 years before He holds the White Throne Judgment is scriptural. And I quoted it for you. Some formally dead, are alive at the beginning of the 1,000 years to rule and reign with Christ and some aren't raised until after the 1,000 years, for the WTJ.
The same person that told you what Christ said, told you that very thing. And that Satan who will have been restrained since the Nations Judgment will even be loosened for a short time immediately prior to the WTJ.
You can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible you think are symbolism and what you think may be literal.
Christ can't kind of judge and punish indiscriminately, some literally and some symbolically. He doesn't even have the discretion to lighten one's sentence or harshen another's for the same crime. He must be 100% just in meting out rewards, crowns, or punishment for sin. < to those who didn't accept Christ's gift of sin free blood in place of their own.

You have also reinvented Heaven. You don't go there for eternity if you are in the correct lane, It is coming here. How large is New Jerusalem? If it's "more symbolism", why give it's exact dimensions?
And you have confused the Judgment of the Nations (right and left sides or aka sheep vs goats) when He returns to prevent man from annihilation of all life on earth at end the tribulation, with the WTJ.
I provided you with the scripture on why He judges the nations after the trib., so they won't create a problem for Israel during His 1,000 year reign.
That is completely different than the WTJ <( no right or left lanes. and none of His sheep on the docket.) that takes place after the thousand year reign. Two completely different events. Both scriptural and literal.

And you have His first coming/revealing< cross, confused with His second coming/revealing< Lion of Judah

But here's the good part. If you know nothing at all except for the faith in the passages which quote the Lord, then you don't need to believe in the rapture. You'll be going up to meet Him in the air, anyway.

Christ en/trusted the people that have given us what knowledge of Jesus we have today. He felt they were the ones reliable enough to feed us. "Jesus said" to them, to feed His sheep. We are the sheep. I don't know of one preacher that confines His education about the Lord, to Jesus' quotes, exclusively.
It's all about Jesus.

I am sorry, Irish, but I do not agree with a newly ( relatively as it is about 200 years old) invented heresy of millennium and rapture as it DIRECTLY contradicts the words of Our Lord.

HE did not EVER mention any earthly millennial kingdoms, raptures or any additional judgements - and that is what matters, not what mere humans are reading into the words of His followers written decades later.

HIS timeline was verysimple and pretty straightforward - He is going to come again only ONCE - and that is going to be for the Last Judgement only - the time is known only to the Father, and the Second Coming is going to be preceded by increased persecution of His followers and increase in false prophets preaching ( that one is on a display for sure). That is the Second Coming which is described in Thessalonians 4 ( which all this construction of rapture is based on) and obviously Paul is considering the Christ followers to be Judged as the ones on the right of Him - and therefore united with Him after the Judgement - that is obvious from the context.

NOTHING ELSE.

He was not talking EVER about any intermediate Judgements, third comings, catching in the air and all other nonsense. That is pretty telling to ME.
All complicated constructions of additional Judgements, partial and otherwise, snatching to the air et cetera - is a HUMAN reading into the words of His followers - and you want me to consider HUMAN determination of the End Times to be superior to the words of Our Lord?

However, I do agree with you that what you beleive as the end of Times and what others do - is most likely secondary to what is needed for salvation. We all are already redeemed by His death, but we all are working on our salvation individually.
How we see the End Times is not that relevant to it, IMHO.

 

[Chuckt]

No, it was not me.

In any case this was the post of yours, that my counter point was directed.

Nope. There is only ONE Judgement - General, Final or the Last - and there is not going to be any 1000 reign before that. That's a fantasy of the last ~ 200 years without any corroboration form the words of Our Lord Himself.
HE was quite straight on the issue ( and had never ever mentioned 3 Judgements, Millennial Kingdoms and Third Comings) - there is going to be only ONE Judgement of all and everybody with the rising of the dead and EVERYBODY will be Judged, including those which have long have been purified long before and are already in Heaven - their Judgement will be pretty symbolic and after that the ones on the Right will proceed to eternal heaven and the ones on the Left - to eternal damnation.

Those are the words of Our Lord Himself.
No need in fantasizing and distorting them.

And, No, Vox. I'm sorry but they are not His words. He said He was setting up shop in Israel, His inheritance. If His followers are never separated from Him again, how are they going to be in Heaven for eternity when he's relocating to earth?

The same people that told you what Christ said, told you more about Him. You have shunned all of their information except for the red words in the Bible. And to make up for what you passed over in the Book, you relied on self to complete the picture.

Not every one rises at the same time or even at the same event. You ignored that part of the Bible. His return to earth to rule and reign for 1,000 years before He holds the White Throne Judgment is scriptural. And I quoted it for you. Some formally dead, are alive at the beginning of the 1,000 years to rule and reign with Christ and some aren't raised until after the 1,000 years, for the WTJ.
The same person that told you what Christ said, told you that very thing. And that Satan who will have been restrained since the Nations Judgment will even be loosened for a short time immediately prior to the WTJ.
You can't pick and choose what parts of the Bible you think are symbolism and what you think may be literal.
Christ can't kind of judge and punish indiscriminately, some literally and some symbolically. He doesn't even have the discretion to lighten one's sentence or harshen another's for the same crime. He must be 100% just in meting out rewards, crowns, or punishment for sin. < to those who didn't accept Christ's gift of sin free blood in place of their own.

You have also reinvented Heaven. You don't go there for eternity if you are in the correct lane, It is coming here. How large is New Jerusalem? If it's "more symbolism", why give it's exact dimensions?
And you have confused the Judgment of the Nations (right and left sides or aka sheep vs goats) when He returns to prevent man from annihilation of all life on earth at end the tribulation, with the WTJ.
I provided you with the scripture on why He judges the nations after the trib., so they won't create a problem for Israel during His 1,000 year reign.
That is completely different than the WTJ <( no right or left lanes. and none of His sheep on the docket.) that takes place after the thousand year reign. Two completely different events. Both scriptural and literal.

And you have His first coming/revealing< cross, confused with His second coming/revealing< Lion of Judah

But here's the good part. If you know nothing at all except for the faith in the passages which quote the Lord, then you don't need to believe in the rapture. You'll be going up to meet Him in the air, anyway.

Christ en/trusted the people that have given us what knowledge of Jesus we have today. He felt they were the ones reliable enough to feed us. "Jesus said" to them, to feed His sheep. We are the sheep. I don't know of one preacher that confines His education about the Lord, to Jesus' quotes, exclusively.
It's all about Jesus.

I am sorry, Irish, but I do not agree with a newly ( relatively as it is about 200 years old) invented heresy of millennium and rapture as it DIRECTLY contradicts the words of Our Lord.

HE did not EVER mention any earthly millennial kingdoms, raptures or any additional judgements - and that is what matters, not what mere humans are reading into the words of His followers written decades later.

How many books have you read on dispensationalism?
Can you give me a bibliography of books you have read on dispensationalism?
Do you have anything against a literal and grammatical interpretation of the Bible?

 

[Vox]

Geez, do you attack everybody? I thought you only did it to me.

piss off or stay on track of the discussion. life is not evolving around you even if you wish so.

Says the one that brings "politics" into a discussion regarding religion.....seems to me you and the Prophet have a chip on your shoulders....maybe it's further down from the shoulders?
How is your personal attack relevant to the discussion? Life doesn't revolve around your vitriol, either.

repeating - piss off