It's NOT Butthurt!

[Boss]

In the OP, I broke down the 58% and explained it to you... did you not read it?

I read it, and I think you sound certain of yourself. Your post is full of assumptions. If you make a convincing enough argument, you can persuade anyone. Ultimately I predict, not assume or believe to be fact, that the prospect of a Hillary Clinton presidency will start to hit them before too long. It's hard to see all those folks bashing Hillary and preaching the horrors of her presidency sitting home or voting third party.

Well I don't have a crystal ball, I could be totally wrong. I'm not really trying to persuade anybody, you can take it or leave it. I understand a lot of people will vote for Trump because of Hillary but we don't even know for sure that it's going to be Hillary at this point. That said, it has a lot to do with why people like myself want to be able to vote for Trump. I don't want Hillary or Bernie as president.

However.... and you just watched it happen two elections in a row... Conservatives will stay home on principle. No matter how bad the opposition is... it doesn't make Conservatives abandon their principles to deliver their votes. That doesn't mean Trump has to pander or cater... these people aren't ideologues as much as they just want someone to uphold conservative principles.

 

[JoeB131]

However.... and you just watched it happen two elections in a row... Conservatives will stay home on principle. No matter how bad the opposition is... it doesn't make Conservatives abandon their principles to deliver their votes. That doesn't mean Trump has to pander or cater... these people aren't ideologues as much as they just want someone to uphold conservative principles.

You see, your delusion is that McCain and Romney lost because conservatives didn't show up for them.

Putting McCain aside, as there was no way he was going to get elected no matter what he said, let's compare Romney with the only time since 1988 the Republican won the popular vote - Bush in 2004. (2000, you stole the election, so that's not a good model.)

In 2004, George W. Stupid got 84% of the self-described "Conservative" vote. In 2012, Mitt Romney got 82% of the self-described "conservative" vote. It wasn't for a lack of conservatives showing up.

The reason why the Weird Mormon Robot didn't win was because he only got 41% of moderates (compared to 45% for Bush). He only got 44% of women (compared to 48% for Bush) and 27% of Hispanics (Compared to 44% for Bush). Heck, Bush even got into double digits with black people.

In short, the groups that Trump needs to improve with are not "Conservatives", but women, moderates, Latinos... groups Trump has done a pretty good job of alienating.

Now, the real threat of Trump is not ideology. The real threat of Trump remains that we area a dumbed down society that mistakes Celebrity for Merit. Trump can win because we have people who watch Reality TV and think that kind of outrageous behavior is acceptable.

"Why, he got a bunch of C-List Celebrities to do business stuff! That's leadership!"

 

[Boss]

You see, your delusion is that McCain and Romney lost because conservatives didn't show up for them.

It's exactly why they both lost. You have about as much political insight as the yellow stuff under my toenail.

 

[JoeB131]

You see, your delusion is that McCain and Romney lost because conservatives didn't show up for them.

It's exactly why they both lost. You have about as much political insight as the yellow stuff under my toenail.

Uh, guy, so you are just going to pretend that a 2% gap among conservatives is more significant than a 4% gap with women and moderates, or a 16% gap with Hispanics?

No, guy, the problem isn't that your guy isn't conservative enough. Only 31% of Americans consider themselves "Conservative". Trump could get 100% of their vote and STILL not have enough to win if he doesn't get enough moderates to sign on.

 

[Wilbur Right]

In short, the groups that Trump needs to improve with are not "Conservatives", but women, moderates, Latinos... groups Trump has done a pretty good job of alienating.

Concern I have is that trump turns all presidential.

If he campaigns on substance and leaves the Hillary attacks alone, he could win.

That has to be what Manafort is telling him. Be presidential, respect Hillary, respect everybody else and win the WH.

 

[JoeB131]

Concern I have is that trump turns all presidential.

If he campaigns on substance and leaves the Hillary attacks alone, he could win.

That has to be what Manafort is telling him. Be presidential, respect Hillary, respect everybody else and win the WH.

I don't think he has the temperament for that. Also, he tantrum have gotten him this far, why change tactics.

I also don't think Trump actually wants to be president. I think he just ran in order to spite the GOP Establishment, which he felt never gave him his props.

 

[Boss]

You see, your delusion is that McCain and Romney lost because conservatives didn't show up for them.

It's exactly why they both lost. You have about as much political insight as the yellow stuff under my toenail.

Uh, guy, so you are just going to pretend that a 2% gap among conservatives is more significant than a 4% gap with women and moderates, or a 16% gap with Hispanics?

No, guy, the problem isn't that your guy isn't conservative enough. Only 31% of Americans consider themselves "Conservative". Trump could get 100% of their vote and STILL not have enough to win if he doesn't get enough moderates to sign on.

Joe... I don't listen to anything you have to say on politics. You're an idiot. You spew nothing but crap from left-wing blogs all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, especially when it comes to Republican politics. You keep throwing around subjective percentages like they have some kind of relevance. I'm sure some knuckleheads and chuckleheads here are enamored with your ability to articulate but you're not impressing me. Save your little brain cells for someone who appreciates them.

 

[Boss]

No, guy, the problem isn't that your guy isn't conservative enough.

First of all, he's not "my guy" and second, I never said he wasn't conservative enough. He needs to appeal to conservative principles if he expects conservatives to vote for him. Now... I realize you think "conservatives" are some endangered species on the brink of extinction.... so I don't expect you to get this... but then, you're not exactly who Trump is depending on to defeat Hillary.. at least, I hope not.

 

[Toro]

You see, your delusion is that McCain and Romney lost because conservatives didn't show up for them.

It's exactly why they both lost. You have about as much political insight as the yellow stuff under my toenail.

Uh, guy, so you are just going to pretend that a 2% gap among conservatives is more significant than a 4% gap with women and moderates, or a 16% gap with Hispanics?

No, guy, the problem isn't that your guy isn't conservative enough. Only 31% of Americans consider themselves "Conservative". Trump could get 100% of their vote and STILL not have enough to win if he doesn't get enough moderates to sign on.

Joe... I don't listen to anything you have to say on politics. You're an idiot. You spew nothing but crap from left-wing blogs all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, especially when it comes to Republican politics. You keep throwing around subjective percentages like they have some kind of relevance. I'm sure some knuckleheads and chuckleheads here are enamored with your ability to articulate but you're not impressing me. Save your little brain cells for someone who appreciates them.

Joe is correct. There is no evidence that millions of conservatives stayed home. That was based on an erroneous blog that was published before all the votes had been counted.

In fact, the evidence is that conservatives turned out in record numbers for Romney.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe... I don't listen to anything you have to say on politics. You're an idiot. You spew nothing but crap from left-wing blogs all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, especially when it comes to Republican politics. You keep throwing around subjective percentages like they have some kind of relevance. I'm sure some knuckleheads and chuckleheads here are enamored with your ability to articulate but you're not impressing me. Save your little brain cells for someone who appreciates them.

So essentially, you can't really refute the numbers, so you want to live in your own little world. Got it.

You see, here's the irony. The only guy who consistently beat Hillary in the Polls was Kasich. He'd probably have given you 90% of what you wanted, but that's not good enough for you. You all threw a tantrum trying to get Cruz nominated and it didn't work, and now you are threatening to pout if Trump doesn't kiss your ass and make your butthurt better.

 

[JoeB131]

First of all, he's not "my guy" and second, I never said he wasn't conservative enough. He needs to appeal to conservative principles if he expects conservatives to vote for him. Now... I realize you think "conservatives" are some endangered species on the brink of extinction.... so I don't expect you to get this... but then, you're not exactly who Trump is depending on to defeat Hillary.. at least, I hope not.

Naw, I don't think "Conservatives" are on the brink of extinction.

I think they are basically stupid people who've been deluded into voting against their own economic interests by people playing on their racial, sexual and religious fears.

Trump just did this better than Cruz did.

 

[Boss]

One person issuing ultimatums to a candidate doesn't mean shit unless you can convince a few million people to go along with you. And if you have that kind of influence you should be running for office.

I assure you, this isn't an ultimatum and I speak for millions. If you want to take that attitude and continue to be your usual belligerent self, you're going to lose this election to Hillary in a landslide. Honestly and truthfully, I think that's exactly what is about to go down because you can't help yourselves. You're too caught up in your own hot wind and you think you've got this thing in the bag and don't need anyone else.

The only reason I posted and I'm telling you like it is, is because I don't want to see Hillary become president. I honestly hope that Trump can defeat her. Seriously... no butthurt... no hard feelings... the primary is over and Trump won fair and square... but now he has to unify this party and if he cannot do it, he's in trouble. You can either help him or hurt him... that's up to you. Again, I have no faith in you doing the right thing here. I think you are full of yourself and lack the maturity to be anything different than you've been. You will keep on bashing and trashing people who's votes you need and you and your candidate will lose in November.

Sp prove me wrong, big boy! Show me that you can act like a mature adult and do the right thing.

And now we see the REAL reason for this thread. BUTTHURT!

Wrong answer. Like I said... YOU are going to help Trump lose the election.

 

[Boss]

Joe... I don't listen to anything you have to say on politics. You're an idiot. You spew nothing but crap from left-wing blogs all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, especially when it comes to Republican politics. You keep throwing around subjective percentages like they have some kind of relevance. I'm sure some knuckleheads and chuckleheads here are enamored with your ability to articulate but you're not impressing me. Save your little brain cells for someone who appreciates them.

So essentially, you can't really refute the numbers, so you want to live in your own little world. Got it.

You see, here's the irony. The only guy who consistently beat Hillary in the Polls was Kasich. He'd probably have given you 90% of what you wanted, but that's not good enough for you. You all threw a tantrum trying to get Cruz nominated and it didn't work, and now you are threatening to pout if Trump doesn't kiss your ass and make your butthurt better.

I don't need to refute bogus numbers that don't mean anything.

There's no butthurt... I keep telling you people that but you insist there is. I can't make you believe me. Nobody wanted Kasich, he never even got as many delegates as Rubio. This has nothing to do with pouting or hurt feelings over Cruz not winning. It has everything to do with conservative philosophy and if Trump doesn't run as a conservative the conservatives will stay home. You and others are welcome to think they stayed home due to butthurt but that's why I am telling you it's not so.

People can believe whatever... I don't really care. I want Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton as much as anyone who supports Trump.... I'm not abandoning my principles for that. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

 

[Boss]

You see, your delusion is that McCain and Romney lost because conservatives didn't show up for them.

It's exactly why they both lost. You have about as much political insight as the yellow stuff under my toenail.

Uh, guy, so you are just going to pretend that a 2% gap among conservatives is more significant than a 4% gap with women and moderates, or a 16% gap with Hispanics?

No, guy, the problem isn't that your guy isn't conservative enough. Only 31% of Americans consider themselves "Conservative". Trump could get 100% of their vote and STILL not have enough to win if he doesn't get enough moderates to sign on.

Joe... I don't listen to anything you have to say on politics. You're an idiot. You spew nothing but crap from left-wing blogs all the time. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, especially when it comes to Republican politics. You keep throwing around subjective percentages like they have some kind of relevance. I'm sure some knuckleheads and chuckleheads here are enamored with your ability to articulate but you're not impressing me. Save your little brain cells for someone who appreciates them.

Joe is correct. There is no evidence that millions of conservatives stayed home. That was based on an erroneous blog that was published before all the votes had been counted.

In fact, the evidence is that conservatives turned out in record numbers for Romney.

A lot of them did, a lot of them didn't.

 

[Boss]

Joe is correct.

That would be a first.

 

[my2¢]

Trump has more to gain by moving even further to the left to attract moderates rather than to the right to win over conservatives. Based on headlines I saw in the media yesterday he's already pursuing this action (raising minimum wage, taxing the rich). As in the past, conservatives have only the Libertarian Party to voice their principles.

 

[Boss]

Trump has more to gain by moving even further to the left to attract moderates rather than to the right to win over conservatives. Based on headlines I saw in the media yesterday he's already pursuing this action (raising minimum wage, taxing the rich). As in the past, conservatives have only the Libertarian Party to voice their principles.

Yep, and I think that's the wrong way to go. He abandons conservatism at his own peril.

 

[Wilbur Right]

He abandons conservatism at his own peril.

No kidding. He could get elected. Then whats he gonna do? Punt.

 

[Toro]

Joe is correct.

That would be a first.

Yes, it is.

 

[Crixus]

You left out the largest demographic of all, the millions upon millions who are FED UP with ALL of the self serving politicians in Washington. Trump wins this group hands down.

that's true, but they stayed home in 2008 and 2012. Trump needs to not worry about uniting anyone, it's not going to happen until after November. He has to make it past then and he may be okay.all the media who support him, like fox are already making hay about this guy Steven Mnuchin. They do try to glass over it, but when the GOP starts campaigning against him it will be just another of many things going against him.