It’s Time to Unplug the Hype Over Electric Vehicles

[Bob Blaylock]

Captain Caveman

As I was calculating the power involved in charging an electric car at such a rate as to fully charge one in just a few minutes, I was sort of oblivious to the actual scale, knowing only that it is a much larger scale than anything I've ever worked with.

To get some handle on the scale, I looked up the specifications of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant, the one remaining nuclear plant in California, scheduled to be shut down and decommissioned in just a few years. 2256 megawatts. So, the entire capacity of this dual-reactor plant, is about enough to charge a hundred cars at once, at the rate that we've been discussing. A plant that is intended to provide enough power, I am sure, sufficient, for thousands, perhaps millions of households. One car charger, operating at the rates I have calculated, would use up about 1% of this plant's capacity.

Not likely.

The rate at which a battery can be charged (or a capacitor) is one part of the problem.

A gallon of gasoline contains the equivalent of roughly 33.7 kilowatt-hours of energy that can be released by burning it. My present car has, I think, a fourteen-gallon fuel tank. So, {14 33.7 ×} about 470 kilowatt-hours of energy in my fuel tank, when full of gasoline. Let's say I coast in to a gas station, my car having just run out of gas a dozen feet short of reaching the pump. Having barely coasted to the pump, let us suppose it takes me about five minutes to fill my tank. ( think I am being pessimistic in this estimate. It's probably closer to two or three minutes, depending on the pump, but let us assume five.) So, fourteen gallons of gasoline, 470 kilowatt-house of energy, in 5⁄60 of an hour. {470 1000 × 5 60 ÷ ÷} about 5,600,000 watts. Not sure what voltage car chargers run at, but let is assume 480 volts, which is the common high industrial voltage. So, 5.6 megawatts, at 480 volts, would be 11,750 amperes.

No!

You are not going to be charging any electric car at a rate of 11,750 amperes. It simply isn't going to happen. Period. Do you have any idea how big a wire it takes to safely carry that much current? I'm an electrician, and I have no clue. None of the references that I have at hand go nearly that high. Wires that I have worked with, big enough to be unwieldy and impractical for a consumer to try to connect to a car only go up to about a thousand amps or so.

And I was assuming five minutes. You're talking about two or three. So, now we're talking about power in the 10 to 14 megawatt range, currents in the 20,000 to 30,000 ampere range.

Is it even possible to get a connection from the grid to the electrical counterpart to a gas station, with that much capacity? I very much doubt it; especially when you consider that such a station would want to have several chargers, just as a gasoline station has several pumps.

And there is certainly no way in Hell that you're ever getting that sort of capacity to a residential building.

 

[Captain Caveman]

AirBnB?

How many people rent the homes they live in?

Annex. It's where a part of the house is a self contained apartment/flat.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Not likely.

The rate at which a battery can be charged (or a capacitor) is one part of the problem.

A gallon of gasoline contains the equivalent of roughly 33.7 kilowatt-hours of energy that can be released by burning it. My present car has, I think, a fourteen-gallon fuel tank. So, {14 33.7 ×} about 470 kilowatt-hours of energy in my fuel tank, when full of gasoline. Let's say I coast in to a gas station, my car having just run out of gas a dozen feet short of reaching the pump. Having barely coasted to the pump, let us suppose it takes me about five minutes to fill my tank. ( think I am being pessimistic in this estimate. It's probably closer to two or three minutes, depending on the pump, but let us assume five.) So, fourteen gallons of gasoline, 470 kilowatt-hours of energy, in 5⁄60 of an hour. {470 1000 × 5 60 ÷ ÷} about 5,600,000 watts. Not sure what voltage car chargers run at, but let us assume 480 volts, which is the common high industrial voltage. So, 5.6 megawatts, at 480 volts, would be 11,750 amperes.

No!

You are not going to be charging any electric car at a rate of 11,750 amperes. It simply isn't going to happen. Period. Do you have any idea how big a wire it takes to safely carry that much current? I'm an electrician, and I have no clue. None of the references that I have at hand go nearly that high. Wires that I have worked with, big enough to be unwieldy and impractical for a consumer to try to connect to a car only go up to about a thousand amps or so.

And I was assuming five minutes. You're talking about two or three. So, now we're talking about power in the 10 to 14 megawatt range, currents in the 20,000 to 30,000 ampere range.

Is it even possible to get a connection from the grid to the electrical counterpart to a gas station, with that much capacity? I very much doubt it; especially when you consider that such a station would want to have several chargers, just as a gasoline station has several pumps.

And there is certainly no way in Hell that you're ever getting that sort of capacity to a residential building.

They're in use in some cars in conjunction with the battery.

Supercapacitor - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Probably in Tesla's as well, why Tesla bought Maxwell in 2019, kept part of their technology and sold the rest off two years later.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Old Rocks

So, it's good to reduce co2 by changing ICE cars to battery EV's

But to reduce co2 further and reduce battery EV charge times by trying to develop adequate Graphene Supercapacitors to replace batteries, is bad??

Can you explain your logic, I thought you would have creamed your pants with this technology?

 

[Old Rocks]

Captain Caveman

As I was calculating the power involved in charging an electric car at such a rate as to fully charge one in just a few minutes, I was sort of oblivious to the actual scale, knowing only that it is a much larger scale than anything I've ever worked with.

To get some handle on the scale, I looked up the specifications of the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant, the one remaining nuclear plant in California, scheduled to be shut down and decommissioned in just a few years. 2256 megawatts. So, the entire capacity of this dual-reactor plant, is about enough to charge a hundred cars at once, at the rate that we've been discussing. A plant that is intended to provide enough power, I am sure, sufficient, for thousands, perhaps millions of households. One car charger, operating at the rates I have calculated, would use up about 1% of this plant's capacity.

​

If I drive at a thousand miles an hour, I calculate I can get to Montana real fast. Same kind of calculations you are using.

 

[Old Rocks]

Not likely.

The rate at which a battery can be charged (or a capacitor) is one part of the problem.

A gallon of gasoline contains the equivalent of roughly 33.7 kilowatt-hours of energy that can be released by burning it. My present car has, I think, a fourteen-gallon fuel tank. So, {14 33.7 ×} about 470 kilowatt-hours of energy in my fuel tank, when full of gasoline. Let's say I coast in to a gas station, my car having just run out of gas a dozen feet short of reaching the pump. Having barely coasted to the pump, let us suppose it takes me about five minutes to fill my tank. ( think I am being pessimistic in this estimate. It's probably closer to two or three minutes, depending on the pump, but let us assume five.) So, fourteen gallons of gasoline, 470 kilowatt-hours of energy, in 5⁄60 of an hour. {470 1000 × 5 60 ÷ ÷} about 5,600,000 watts. Not sure what voltage car chargers run at, but let us assume 480 volts, which is the common high industrial voltage. So, 5.6 megawatts, at 480 volts, would be 11,750 amperes.

No!

You are not going to be charging any electric car at a rate of 11,750 amperes. It simply isn't going to happen. Period. Do you have any idea how big a wire it takes to safely carry that much current? I'm an electrician, and I have no clue. None of the references that I have at hand go nearly that high. Wires that I have worked with, big enough to be unwieldy and impractical for a consumer to try to connect to a car only go up to about a thousand amps or so.

And I was assuming five minutes. You're talking about two or three. So, now we're talking about power in the 10 to 14 megawatt range, currents in the 20,000 to 30,000 ampere range.

Is it even possible to get a connection from the grid to the electrical counterpart to a gas station, with that much capacity? I very much doubt it; especially when you consider that such a station would want to have several chargers, just as a gasoline station has several pumps.

And there is certainly no way in Hell that you're ever getting that sort of capacity to a residential building.

LOL Odd that you leave out the little fact that you are able to use maybe 20% of the energy in that gasoline because of the inefficiency of the Carnot cycle, while the EV's are over 75% efficient.

Where the Energy Goes: Electric Cars​

Electric vehicles (EVs) are more efficient than their gasoline-powered counterparts. An EV electric drive system is only responsible for a 15% to 20% energy loss compared to 64% to 75% for a gasoline engine. EVs also use regenerative braking to recapture and reuse energy that normally would be lost in braking and waste no energy idling. See All-Electric Vehicles for details.

EVs are 60% to 73% efficient, depending upon drive cycle. However, if the energy recaptured from regenerative braking is counted (i.e., recounted when it is re-used), EVs are 77% to 100% efficient. (For more information on how vehicle efficiency is calculated, see Vehicle Fuel Efficiency.)

Where the Energy Goes: Electric Cars

EVs are 60% to 73% efficient, depending upon drive cycle (77% to 100% efficient if the energy recaptured from regenerative braking is counted).

www.fueleconomy.gov

 

[rightwinger]

This vehicle only needs 1.21 Jigawatts of electricity from a handy bolt of lightning or fusion reactor.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Old Rocks

So, it's good to reduce co2 by changing ICE cars to battery EV's

But to reduce co2 further and reduce battery EV charge times by trying to develop adequate Graphene Supercapacitors to replace batteries, is bad??

Can you explain your logic, I thought you would have creamed your pants with this technology?

Bit quite Old Rocks . Either the cat got your tongue or you're full of bovine excrement.

 

[Old Rocks]

Bit quite Old Rocks . Either the cat got your tongue or you're full of bovine excrement.

Hydrogen is a nonstarter. Batteries will soon exceed 400 wth per kilo, and the capacitors may become useful in time. At present we don't have fusion reactors, nor thorium reactors, no fuel cells that will last as long as existing batteries, nor deliver the power as quickly. So the present batteries are doing a great job, and will be doing even better in the near future.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Hydrogen is a nonstarter. Batteries will soon exceed 400 wth per kilo, and the capacitors may become useful in time. At present we don't have fusion reactors, nor thorium reactors, no fuel cells that will last as long as existing batteries, nor deliver the power as quickly. So the present batteries are doing a great job, and will be doing even better in the near future.

Supercapacitors are proving useful, they're appearing in more and more EV's. Hopefully they can advance the technology so they'll replace the battery.

 

[ding]

Great article....




In 1901, the Los Angeles Times declared “The electric automobile will quickly and easily take precedence over all other” types of motor vehicles


In 1911, The New York Times declared that the EV “has long been recognized as the ideal solution” because it “is cleaner and quieter” and “much more economical.”



Furthermore, low- and middle-income Americans are facing significant electric rate increases for grid upgrades to accommodate EVs. Proof of that can be seen by looking, again, at California. Last month, the California Energy Commission estimated the state will need 1.3 million new public EV chargers by 2030. Likely cost to ratepayers: about $13 billion.

Meanwhile, blackouts are almost certain this summer and electricity prices in the state are, as energy analyst Mark Nelson recently put it, “absolutely exploding.” Last year, electricity prices soared by 7.5% and California regulators expect rates to surge another 40% or so by 2030. These cost increases are happening in a state with the highest poverty rate and largest Latino population in America.

It’s Time to Unplug the Hype Over Electric Vehicles

For more than a century, the promise of electric vehicles (EVs) has been parked just beyond the nearest traffic light. In 1901, the Los Angeles Times declared “The electric automobile will quick

www.google.com

Predictable surprises. I love it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

If I drive at a thousand miles an hour, I calculate I can get to Montana real fast. Same kind of calculations you are using.

Talking about charging an electric car in just a few minutes is comparable to talking about driving one at a thousand miles per hour.

Just not technically feasible, and not ever likely to be technically feasible, and even if it was, it would be seriously unsafe.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I don’t use much electricity while I am sleeping
Perfect time to charge the car

Not everyone follows your sleep pattern.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Talking about charging an electric car in just a few minutes is comparable to talking about driving one at a thousand miles per hour.

Just not technically feasible, and not ever likely to be technically feasible, and even if it was, it would be seriously unsafe.

Keep an eye out for Graphene Supercapacitors technology. Supercapacitors are already in use in many EV's in conjunction with the battery.

A 3v charged capacitor still has it's 3v charge in 10 to 15 years time. Batteries drain and degrade, capacitors can be discharged and recharged many thousands times more than batteries. They only take a minute or two to charge.

Graphene is 1 atom thick, so the density is greatly increased by layering up. If they can get the storage up to that of batteries, then Graphene Suoercapacitors will replace batteries.

Batteries are chemical, where as a capacitor simply stores the static electric

 

[toobfreak]

Exactly rich people owning EVs are getting a free ride then bragging about the low cost

EVs are not for poor people. The average EV owner makes $140,000 a year, nearly twice the national rate.

 

[toobfreak]

If I drive at a thousand miles an hour, I calculate I can get to Montana real fast. Same kind of calculations you are using.

Thanks for finally showing either your extreme ignorance or extreme prejudice in these matters.

Bob is quite right. The national infrastructure simply is not there to support a nation of EVs all charging up the way libs like you envision it, much less doing so WITHOUT coal or nuclear power. I can't wait to see what it does to electric costs when everyone needs a quick charge in the middle of the afternoon while business and industry are working and all you have are wind farms, PV solar cells and a few hydro damns.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Talking about charging an electric car in just a few minutes is comparable to talking about driving one at a thousand miles per hour.

Just not technically feasible, and not ever likely to be technically feasible, and even if it was, it would be seriously unsafe.

World’s Fastest Charging Electric Bus by Using Supercapacitor - Supercaptech.com

One of the problems of using an electric vehicle with a lithium-ion battery is the long charging process. Nowadays, automotive companies can solve this problem …

supercaptech.com

Either you're right and reality is wrong, or vice versa.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I don’t use much electricity while I am sleeping
Perfect time to charge the car

I should have added in my reply to this post -

The wife comes home and the EV charge level is low. The husband comes home from parcel deliveries with a low charged battery. The AirBnB guest turns up on the evening with a low charged EV battery. All 3 want to charge while they're asleep. The couple have a son, is his car low on charge as well?

Do you leave the air conditioning on at night? What other appliances are running? We put the dishwasher on at night because the electric is cheaper after 11pm.

 

[rightwinger]

I should have added in my reply to this post -

The wife comes home and the EV charge level is low. The husband comes home from parcel deliveries with a low charged battery. The AirBnB guest turns up on the evening with a low charged EV battery. All 3 want to charge while they're asleep. The couple have a son, is his car low on charge as well?

Do you leave the air conditioning on at night? What other appliances are running? We put the dishwasher on at night because the electric is cheaper after 11pm.

Gee…..maybe with YOUR usage you need 2 or 3

Most will get by perfectly fine with just one

 

[skookerasbil]

You fucking Moon Bats faggots kissed the ass of the filthy ass BLM Negroes that spent six months murdering, rioting, looting, and destroying in over 200 American cities so you can kiss my American ass .

This AGW bullshit is nothing more than a silly scam and you stupid uneducated Moon Bat faggots are simply too ignorant to know it.

Thankfully, wokeism is dying on the vine as we speak. Americans are sick of this shit....

November is going to be a raucus party....but not for the DUMS.