i've re-considered the entire Ukraine case.. enter *your* opinions please..

[AntonToo]

If only you were objective. You’re a Ukrainian so you can’t be objective.

Here is more logic to blow your slanted mind, this fine morning.

The true evil in this war is not Putin who is trying to protect his country, or the brave non Nazi Ukrainian soldiers defending theirs

It's the Biden's Admin using Ukrainians to fight their proxy war to try to weaken Russia and US puppet Zelensky sacrificing his people for them.

I am not Ukranian. I am an American citizen who was born in, and immigrated from Russia.

I guess it takes more intelligence than you have to not constantly post bullshit.

 

[gipper]

I am not Ukranian. I am an American citizen who was born in, and immigrated from Russia.

I guess it takes more intelligence than you have to not constantly post bullshit.

There it is. I knew it.

 

[Flash]

Except it isn’t defensive. Dupe!

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

However, there isn't even a need for NATO anymore seeing that the Russian conventional forces are mostly a joke.

 

[AntonToo]

You’re a Ukrainian

I am not Ukranian.

There it is. I knew it.

I'm clearly dealing with a total fucking loon. Time for ignore.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The US wanted "a free and independent Ukraine" the same way it wanted freedom and independence for Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan. The US wanted to control the government of a state on the border with Russia as Victoria Nuland's phone call confirmed:

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

"Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work."

If you had a properly functioning brain, you would understand there is nothing in that quote to suggest the US wanted to control Ukraine and if you were paying attention to what was going on, you would understand that Russia's clear intention was to control Ukraine by military force if Ukraine didn't submit to Russia's demands. You don't seem to understand what the word, border, means.

 

[gipper]

I'm clearly dealing with a total fucking loon. Time for ignore.

Thank you Uke.

 

[gipper]

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

However, there isn't even a need for NATO anymore seeing that the Russian conventional forces are mostly a joke.

Lol. Disagreeing on FACTS makes one dumb.

 

[gipper]

The US wanted "a free and independent Ukraine" the same way it wanted freedom and independence for Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan. The US wanted to control the government of a state on the border with Russia as Victoria Nuland's phone call confirmed:

Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call

"Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in... he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work."

Things the warmongers ignore.

 

[Flash]

Lol. Disagreeing on FACTS makes one dumb.

You don't have facts. You get a lot of things right but occasionally you go off the deep end and spew shit out your ass that has no foundation in reality.

I have never been a proponent of US interventionism in European affairs including supporting the NATO welfare machine. Europeans need to provide their own security.

However, NATO was created as a defensive alliance against the potential of further post WWII Soviet expansion. The Soviets had a hellva record in Eastern Europe. They were a threat.

You may argue that it was none of our business to protect Europe and be a part of an anti Soviet alliance and I would agree with you. You can't argue that NATO is not a defensive alliance against the Russian Bear. Well you can but you would be wrong.

 

[georgephillip]

If you had a properly functioning brain, you would understand there is nothing in that quote to suggest the US wanted to control Ukraine and if you were paying attention to what was going on, you would understand that Russia's clear intention was to control Ukraine by military force if Ukraine didn't submit to Russia's demands. You don't seem to understand what the word, border, means.

Here's a border even MAGA simpletons can understand

Did you notice any American borders on this map, Moron?
When Nuland selected Yatseniuk in 2014 as the next prime minister of Ukraine, she was helping install a hostile government in a country bordering Russia. Anyone should know how that was received in Moscow. Eight years later millions of Ukrainians are being killed, maimed, and displaced by America's latest failed attempt at regime change in Moscow.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Here's a border even MAGA simpletons can understand

Did you notice any American borders on this map, Moron?
When Nuland selected Yatseniuk in 2014 as the next prime minister of Ukraine, she was helping install a hostile government in a country bordering Russia. Anyone should know how that was received in Moscow. Eight years later millions of Ukrainians are being killed, maimed, and displaced by America's latest failed attempt at regime change in Moscow.

Again, nothing but brain farts from you. Nuland did not select anyone, the US favored some Ukrainian politicians over others after the traitorous Yanukovych was dismissed by the Ukrainian parliament but there is no evidence to suggest the US had the power or influence to determine who would win the election. The new president, Poroshenko, was not hostile to Russia, he was simply not submissive to Putin's whims the way Yanukovych has been.

You and Putin clearly believe the Ukrainian people must do what is best for Russia rather than what is best for themselves and threaten to kill them if they do not obey. It is in this sense that it is clear you do not understand what the word, border, means: Russia ends at its border with Ukraine and has no right to cross that border unless it is being attacked.

Btw, the number of Ukrainians killed in this war number in the thousands or perhaps in the low tens of thousands, but they only number in the millions in your twisted bloodthirsty fantasies. By spring, even someone as dimwitted and bigoted as you will see that there is no way Russia can win this war no matter how many Ukrainians they slaughter, and there is no way Russia can survive their battlefield losses and the sanctions that will not end.

 

[gipper]

You don't have facts. You get a lot of things right but occasionally you go off the deep end and spew shit out your ass that has no foundation in reality.

I have never been a proponent of US interventionism in European affairs including supporting the NATO welfare machine. Europeans need to provide their own security.

However, NATO was created as a defensive alliance against the potential of further post WWII Soviet expansion. The Soviets had a hellva record in Eastern Europe. They were a threat.

You may argue that it was none of our business to protect Europe and be a part of an anti Soviet alliance and I would agree with you. You can't argue that NATO is not a defensive alliance against the Russian Bear. Well you can but you would be wrong.

Why bring up the USSR? It died without bloodshed long ago. Aren’t you aware of this?

I suspect the Serbs and Libyans would tell you to shove that BS about NATO being a “defensive alliance” right up your ass.

Facts are stubborn things.

 

[georgephillip]

Again, nothing but brain farts from you. Nuland did not select anyone, the US favored some Ukrainian politicians over others after the traitorous Yanukovych was dismissed by the Ukrainian parliament but there is no evidence to suggest the US had the power or influence to determine who would win the election. The new president, Poroshenko, was not hostile to Russia, he was simply not submissive to Putin's whims the way Yanukovych has been.

You and Putin clearly believe the Ukrainian people must do what is best for Russia rather than what is best for themselves and threaten to kill them if they do not obey. It is in this sense that it is clear you do not understand what the word, border, means: Russia ends at its border with Ukraine and has no right to cross that border unless it is being attacked.

Btw, the number of Ukrainians killed in this war number in the thousands or perhaps in the low tens of thousands, but they only number in the millions in your twisted bloodthirsty fantasies. By spring, even someone as dimwitted and bigoted as you will see that there is no way Russia can win this war no matter how many Ukrainians they slaughter, and there is no way Russia can survive their battlefield losses and the sanctions that will not end.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Nothing but bullshit from you again. Ukraine's present borders were formally recognized by Russia in 1994, and at that time Russia pledged to never violate those borders unless attacked by Ukraine.

 

[gipper]

Nothing but bullshit from you again. Ukraine's present borders were formally recognized by Russia in 1994, and at that time Russia pledged to never violate those borders unless attacked by Ukraine.

The US and NATO pledged never to expand eastward, after the fall of the USSR. I guess they lied just like Russia, but they lied first.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The US and NATO pledged never to expand eastward, after the fall of the USSR. I guess they lied just like Russia, but they lied first.

Once again nothing but lies from you. The only negotiations concerned East Germany and that agreement is still being upheld. There were no negotiations and no pledges made about preventing eastern European countries from joining NATO. Jim Baker, the first President Bush's Secretary of State stated that that that administration would not allow former Soviet states to join NATO, although it would have been an abuse of power to prevent it if any had applied, but if you were not a complete idiot you would know that no US president can agree to anything that comes after he leaves office, and Clinton was under no obligation to carry Bush's policy forward. Even if you are too stupid and ignorant to know this, Gorbachev certainly did.

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
Once again nothing but lies from you. The only negotiations concerned East Germany and that agreement is still being upheld. There were no negotiations and no pledges made about preventing eastern European countries from joining NATO. Jim Baker, the first President Bush's Secretary of State stated that that that administration would not allow former Soviet states to join NATO, although it would have been an abuse of power to prevent it if any had applied, but if you were not a complete idiot you would know that no US president can agree to anything that comes after he leaves office, and Clinton was under no obligation to carry Bush's policy forward. Even if you are too stupid and ignorant to know this, Gorbachev certainly did.

Now bear the consequences of bullying a country that unlike Iraq and Afghanistan can actually defend itself.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Now bear the consequences of bullying a country that unlike Iraq and Afghanistan can actually defend itself.

You are deeply confused. Russia is trying to bully Ukraine and the US is helping Ukraine to defend itself against Russia's imperialist aggressions.

 

[gipper]

Once again nothing but lies from you. The only negotiations concerned East Germany and that agreement is still being upheld. There were no negotiations and no pledges made about preventing eastern European countries from joining NATO. Jim Baker, the first President Bush's Secretary of State stated that that that administration would not allow former Soviet states to join NATO, although it would have been an abuse of power to prevent it if any had applied, but if you were not a complete idiot you would know that no US president can agree to anything that comes after he leaves office, and Clinton was under no obligation to carry Bush's policy forward. Even if you are too stupid and ignorant to know this, Gorbachev certainly did.

Once again you’re uninformed. What a surprise.

Promises where made never to expand NATO to the east of Germany, by American leaders. Look it up.

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
You are deeply confused. Russia is trying to bully Ukraine and the US is helping Ukraine to defend itself against Russia's imperialist aggressions.

I see...

The act of surrounding a country with a military alliance is not a hostile act, it's a pure manisfestation of love, friendship and fraternity...

That's why Israel has been begging since its creation for western countries to establish a mutual defence pact with Lebannon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, surrounding all the borders of the jewish state.

Nothing says pacifist intentions like a good, old military alliance surrounding your country.