i've re-considered the entire Ukraine case.. enter *your* opinions please..

[gipper]

Read some actual history, you ignorant prick. The Cossack Hetmanate. If you want to know what borders 'Ukraine' had in 1654.

Why do you want more of your fellow Ukrainian citizens killed? Are you a psychopath or a Nazi?

This should help you get informed….

". . .Gorbachev only accepted German reunification—over which the Soviet Union had a legal right to veto under treaty—because he received assurances that NATO would not expand after he withdrew his forces from Eastern Europe from James Baker, President George H.W. Bush, West German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, the CIA Director Robert Gates, French President Francois Mitterrand, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, British foreign minister Douglas Hurd, British Prime Minister John Major, and NATO secretary-general Manfred Woerner.

Indeed, as late as March 1991, the British were reassuring Gorbachev that they could not foresee circumstances under which NATO might expand into Eastern and Central Europe. As former British Ambassador to the Soviet Union recounted in March 5, 1991, Rodric Braithwaite, both British foreign minister Douglas Hurd and British Prime Minister John Major told the Soviet that NATO would not expand eastwards.

“I believe that your thoughts about the role of NATO in the current situation are the result of misunderstanding,” Major had told Gorbachev. We are not talking about strengthening of NATO. We are talking about the coordination of efforts that is already happening in Europe between NATO and the West European Union, which, as it is envisioned, would allow all members of the European Community to contribute to enhance [our] security.”
Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border

 

[gipper]

Read some actual history, you ignorant prick. The Cossack Hetmanate. If you want to know what borders 'Ukraine' had in 1654.

Here’s more for you. Now stop pushing Nazi propaganda.

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves​

SPOTLIGHT, 28 Feb 2022

Ben Norton | Multipolarista – TRANSCEND Media Service

Notes from a 1991 meeting prove that the US, UK, France, and Germany assured the Soviet Union that NATO would not expand east. It’s part of a growing body of evidence that the West broke its promise to Russia.

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves

 

[ESay]

Why do you want more of your fellow Ukrainian citizens killed? Are you a psychopath or a Nazi?

This should help you get informed….

". . .Gorbachev only accepted German reunification—over which the Soviet Union had a legal right to veto under treaty—because he received assurances that NATO would not expand after he withdrew his forces from Eastern Europe from James Baker, President George H.W. Bush, West German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, the CIA Director Robert Gates, French President Francois Mitterrand, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, British foreign minister Douglas Hurd, British Prime Minister John Major, and NATO secretary-general Manfred Woerner.

Indeed, as late as March 1991, the British were reassuring Gorbachev that they could not foresee circumstances under which NATO might expand into Eastern and Central Europe. As former British Ambassador to the Soviet Union recounted in March 5, 1991, Rodric Braithwaite, both British foreign minister Douglas Hurd and British Prime Minister John Major told the Soviet that NATO would not expand eastwards.

“I believe that your thoughts about the role of NATO in the current situation are the result of misunderstanding,” Major had told Gorbachev. We are not talking about strengthening of NATO. We are talking about the coordination of efforts that is already happening in Europe between NATO and the West European Union, which, as it is envisioned, would allow all members of the European Community to contribute to enhance [our] security.”
Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border

I don't. And I already told you my views about the way I would stop this war. Should I repeat them?

 

[gipper]

I don't. And I already told you my views about the way I would stop this war. Should I repeat them?

Stop changing the subject. You ignorantly have stated multiple times the promises made not to expand NATO mean nothing.

Here is a great post for you to digest, my dear Nazi.

Stop with the Nazi propaganda

Post in thread 'Best part of the Ukrainian Invasion...'

 

[ESay]

Here’s more for you. Now stop pushing Nazi propaganda.

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves​

SPOTLIGHT, 28 Feb 2022

Ben Norton | Multipolarista – TRANSCEND Media Service


US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves

I repeat it once more. These were promises between a number of politicians, the promises didn't have a legal basis.

International law doesn't know such a legal term as 'promises'. If there hadn't been a binding treaty, then the question is closed.

These promises lost their meaning the moment the last politician who had made them lost his power.

 

[ESay]

Stop changing the subject. You ignorantly have stated multiple times the promises made not to expand NATO mean nothing.

Here is a great post for you to digest, my dear Nazi.

Stop with the Nazi propaganda

Post in thread 'Best part of the Ukrainian Invasion...'

Nazi propaganda exists only in your insecure mind.

 

[gipper]

Nazi propaganda exists only in your insecure mind.

Again off topic…Nazi!

You like to call others Russian spies and trolls for merely opposing this stupid war, but can’t take it when you’re labeled.


Pussy!

 

[AntonToo]

I don't. And I already told you my views about the way I would stop this war. Should I repeat them?

You can repeat it 10 times and he will come back to square one again and again. Can't fix stupid.

 

[ESay]

Again off topic…Nazi!

You like to call others Russian spies and trolls for merely opposing this stupid war, but can’t take it when you’re labeled.


Pussy!

Nah, you can call me whatever you want. Who cares? It doesn't change the fact that you are absolutely ignorant about the land you are trying to post and just follow the narrative Russian propaganda is feeding you.

I don't remember calling you Russian spy or troll. Because I don't think it is true. Useful idiot, far more close.

 

[gipper]

You can repeat it 10 times and he will come back to square one again and again. Can't fix stupid.

Unfortunately Uke, you never learn. You merely regurgitate western propaganda and continue to support a proxy war that’s killing lots of your fellow Ukes.

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
If you actually had any interest in this topic, you would ask yourself why all these states were so eager to join NATO. If you did you would find out it was because of Russia's long history of treachery and aggression against its neighbors. Instead of whining that no one trusts him, Putin should be apologizing for not being trustworthy.

Stop for a moment and think about the insanity that underpins your argument, toomuchtime.

You're trying to justify the military encirclement of Russia based on Russia's behavior in the 19th, 20th century.

In other words you're punishing the country for something it hasn't done yet!!

"Russia has a history of imperialism regarding its neighbors so let's surround the country with a military alliance."

Convicting an individual, a citizen or a nation for something it hasn't done yet is not only insane, it's cruel as well.

No judicial system in the world accept punishing anyone on the grounds that someday in the future they might commit a crime.

But here you are telling us Russia should be surrounded by a military alliance because there is a chance that in the future Russia will abuse her neighbors (not only you, by the way... The ukrainian Esay is always repeating this fallacy as well).

The same line of "reasoning" could be used against America as well. Latin American and Caribbean countries could try and justify a military alliance with China based on the Monroe Doctrine, based on 200 years of american interventionism in the region that included the overt theft of more than half of Mexico's territory.

But submitting 21th century America to a military encirclement based on the actions committed by the country 100, 200 years ago is absurd. China would sound just like a bully trying to come up with a pathetic excuse to justify his aggression, to justify the act of militarily surrounding its economic rival.

Exactly what you are doing here.

 

[Redfish]

That wasn't his point. His point was that it is supposedly hypocritical for Americans to look down on Russian invasion, while supporting our own. My point is of course that he himself looks like a hypocrite for not simply condemning Russian invasion and instead blaming us for it.

Aside from that, I don't know where you get your info but VERY few Ukranians want to live under Putin and Zelensky has an overwhelming support of Ukranians in their fight against Russian invasion. Ukranians used to have mixed feelings about Russia and the extent of co-operation between their countries, all that is GONE, replaced mostly by outright hate to strong disaproval.

It is absolutely our bussiness to promote international order and open, democratic governing to ensure long term stability and growth. Isolationism does not work, as history has proven time and time again and it especially does not work in the context of modern global economic and social integration. The only serious question is how agressive we are in pursuing those interests.

I recent poll in Ukraine showed that roughly half of Ukrainians want to rejoin Russia because their current government is so corrupt that it is hurting average citizens.

 

[gipper]

Nah, you can call me whatever you want. Who cares? It doesn't change the fact that you are absolutely ignorant about the land you are trying to post and just follow the narrative Russian propaganda is feeding you.

I don't remember calling you Russian spy or troll. Because I don't think it is true. Useful idiot, far more close.

What Russia thinks of US sanctions….

 

[ESay]

But here you are telling us Russia should be surrounded by a military alliance because there is a chance that in the future Russia will abuse her neighbors (not only you, by the way... The ukrainian Esay is always repeating this fallacy as well)

Have any of American presidents ever said that falling of the Monroe doctrine was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of some century, or that the Americans and Mexicans are the same people, or that Mexico is a 'created' state?

Or compared themselves with say Hernan Cortes?

 

[ESay]

What Russia thinks of US sanctions….

Yeah, cool video. China dragging Russia by a rope over the ground. Perfect explanation of future China-Russia relations.

 

[gipper]

Stop for a moment and think about the insanity that underpins your argument, toomuchtime.

You're trying to justify the military encirclement of Russia based on Russia's behavior in the 19th, 20th century.

In other words you're punishing the country for something it hasn't done yet!!

"Russia has a history of imperialism regarding its neighbors so let's surround the country with a military alliance."

Convicting an individual, a citizen or a nation for something it hasn't done yet is not only insane, it's cruel as well.

No judicial system in the world accept punishing anyone on the grounds that someday in the future they might commit a crime.

But here you are telling us Russia should be surrounded by a military alliance because there is a chance that in the future Russia will abuse her neighbors (not only you, by the way... The ukrainian Esay is always repeating this fallacy as well).

The same line of "reasoning" could be used against America as well. Latin American and Caribbean countries could try and justify a military alliance with China based on the Monroe Doctrine, based on 200 years of american interventionism in the region that included the overt theft of more than half of Mexico's territory.

But submitting 21th century America to a military encirclement based on the actions committed by the country 100, 200 years ago is absurd. China would sound just like a bully trying to come up with a pathetic excuse to justify his aggression, to justify the act of militarily surrounding its economic rival.

Exactly what you are doing here.

Excellent post. I’m afraid the warmongers will never understand it.

The hypocrisy of some is so obvious and enormous, yet they can’t see it in themselves.

 

[gipper]

Yeah, cool video. China dragging Russia by a rope over the ground. Perfect explanation of future China-Russia relations.

Haha…you missed the point being made, which is a common occurrence for you.

NAZI!

 

[gipper]

Have any of American presidents ever said that falling of the Monroe doctrine was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of some century, or that the Americans and Mexicans are the same people, or that Mexico is a 'created' state?

Or compared themselves with say Hernan Cortes?

What? Once again you post stupidity. Do you know what a straw man argument is? You are a master at it, but it’s so transparent and dumb.

NAZI!

 

[ESay]

Haha…you missed the point being made, which is a common occurrence for you.

NAZI!

You are just too slow to understand irony.

 

[ESay]

What? Once again you post stupidity. Do you know what a straw man argument is? You are a master at it, but it’s so transparent and dumb.

NAZI!

Okay, my other argument is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation that has a right to defend itself. Deal with that, Yuri.