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dilloduck said:Thus far pro-choice groups are happy to just kill babies because it is legal--it is yet to be determined how they would react if they didn't get their way.
Gem said:At this point, I am trying to decide whether you are strongly pro-choice, but aren't used to having to defend your position yet..
CivilLiberty said:Pro choice groups don't kill babies. Doctors terminate pregnancies which involves embryos or fetuses and not involve babies. A baby is only a baby after it is born.
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CivilLiberty said:Pro choice groups don't kill babies. Doctors terminate pregnancies which involves embryos or fetuses and not involve babies. A baby is only a baby after it is born.
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CivilLiberty said:Liar. I pointed out that 80 percent of abortions happen in the FIRST trimester.
You claimed that "almost all abortions take place in the second trimester".
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233826&highlight=second#post233826
Regards,
Andy
CivilLiberty said:I'm not being obtuse, you stated that most abortions occurred in the second trimester, which is false. 80% happen in the first trimester.
It's not a fetus till the third month, and even then the brain stem is primitive at best. the brain centers that control even the most basic life functions such as breathing don't develop until the 6th month.
At the 4th month, the fetal brain is about the size of a hazelnut - smaller than that of a cat, and far less developed. This primitive brain has not developed into an individual person, nor has it developed the nervous centers needed for sustaining life.
I never made the statement that "brain activity" is where I make the distinction - if anything I said brain development. There is a very significant difference.
And again, 80% of surgical abortions happen in the FIRST trimester, which means the FIRST 3 months.
Andy
no1tovote4 said:Now you are lying, you said "No Brain = Not a human being"
no1tovote4 said:Thus when brain activity starts at 40 days we now have a human being according to your definition.
no1tovote4 said:Once again I apologize, I never tried to defend the second trimester because I don't believe it, know it is incorrect, and was shocked to discover that I actually did type it but I posted it in error. What I was meaning to say is that most surgical abortions occur after 40 days when brain activity can be recorded in the fetus.
CivilLiberty said:My point is that before even the most primitive brain stem forms, it's ludicrous to call that a human being.
CivilLiberty said:Okay, statement clarified. However, I don't consider mere brain "activity" as the signature of the human being. It is BRAIN DEVELOPMENT.
I point this out clearly in my article, which I am going to post here asa new thread.
Regards,
Andy
CivilLiberty said:Not sure what this proves Bonnie. It is the radical anti-abortionists that are torching clinics and murdering doctors.
Can you cite from pro-choice groups that have gone out and burned churches and murdered reverends in the name of choice?
Regards,
Andy
CivilLiberty said:I'm not lying, I know I said that. It is not, however a limiting factor in my argument.
My point is that before even the most primitive brain stem forms, it's ludicrous to call that a human being.
The statement "No Brain = Not a human being" holds true without question.
But that does not mean or imply that adding just a primitive brain stem makes it a human being then, either.
While primitive brain waves might start at 40 days, this does not mean that it suddenly becomes a human being.
A mouse has brain waves, too, and that does not make it a human.
No, my definition is that without a brain, there is no human, that does not mean that adding some brain elements makes it a human. That's a logical leap.
Okay, statement clarified. However, I don't consider mere brain "activity" as the signature of the human being. It is BRAIN DEVELOPMENT.
I point this out clearly in my article, which I am going to post here asa new thread.
Regards,
Andy
.A mouse has brain waves, too, and that does not make it a human
dilloduck said:.
I would imagine it has mouse brain waves and not human brain waves unless of course his name was Micky
CivilLiberty said:Pro choice groups don't kill babies. Doctors terminate pregnancies which involves embryos or fetuses and not involve babies. A baby is only a baby after it is born.
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KarlMarx said:Joseph Goebells couldn't come up with a better line than that gem of yours.
How convenient, how clean. You're just getting rid of a lump of tissue, just as if you're having a wart removed.
Sounds like....
"The Nazi party isn't killing Jews. We are just arriving at a final solution that involves those of subhuman races and does not involve people."
"The South doesn't enslave humans. We are just growing cotton using our property, these are not people, but slaves. See... the Supreme Court says so!"
"The Taliban doesn't deny people their rights. We are just arriving at a theocracy by keeping sinners in line. Women aren't people, only men are."
KarlMarx said:How convenient, how clean. You're just getting rid of a lump of tissue, just as if you're having a wart removed.
CivilLiberty said:Pretty much.
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KarlMarx said:How convenient, how clean. You're just getting rid of a lump of tissue, just as if you're having a wart removed.
CivilLiberty in answer to the previous KarlMarx post said:Pretty much.
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CivilLiberty said:Originally Posted by KarlMarx
How convenient, how clean. You're just getting rid of a lump of tissue, just as if you're having a wart removed.
Pretty much.
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Avatar4321 said:Its this kind of logic that the nazis used to justify their human experimentation and the holocaust. its dangerous and deadly.
If we continue promoting abortion our society will be destroyed because we will teach our future generations that life is not precious and valuable and that if you make choices that leave you with difficult consequences you can run away from your responsibilities.