Jesus died for our sins......

[HaShev]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?

But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

Well we see how much this ideology doesn't work or compute when we see the victims throughout the ages of this extremely dangerous teaching, and the many cross tatoos, earings, and necklaces that flood our prisons and fbi's most wanted list.

In the iconograph of the false prophet Lucifer, he is seen holding down the scales of justice preventing man from weighing our deeds and good vs evil acts and we know this is done through devotion to his image instead of foxis on our behavior and acts.
So the standard is set through idol worship whereby affiliation to the great eglomaniac and group pride surpasses our ethics standards and being in righteousness. Hence when people ask why is this world so cruel and messed up it can resort back to the warning not to serve idols, not to covet death (the curse), not to fall with the fallen image of the perfect (sinless man) deemed the first fallen messiah.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the real culprits are who wrote the story and those who have used it over the centuries to oppress the truth, including the honorable way Jesus chose in ending his life and why ...

.

chose to die?

i'm pretty sure the romans made that choice for him.

.
i'm pretty sure the romans made that choice for him.


he chose the course that led to his "willing" capture - be it as it may, for some a true hero for his time.

.

 

[HaShev]

But that's also a story (characters willingness to go to death) as they made Jesus the first Pee Wee Herman in his "I meant to do that" scheme to try and explain why a man god could not smite his enemies and free himself.

Furthermore since Rome created the image from many, then the reality is each christ figure has their own unique persecution story. Therefore by talking about the created characters story is to fall prey to Rome's path in which they take and control the reader, still deceiving them as if it's a historical figure.

 

[jillian]

.
the real culprits are who wrote the story and those who have used it over the centuries to oppress the truth, including the honorable way Jesus chose in ending his life and why ...

.

chose to die?

i'm pretty sure the romans made that choice for him.

.
i'm pretty sure the romans made that choice for him.


he chose the course that led to his "willing" capture - be it as it may, for some a true hero for his time.

.

i suppose if you believe he was what you think he was..... i think he was a nice jewish rabbi who said some good stuff and was fomenting insurrection against rome and challenging the san herding. i think that's more than enough for a man to be.

 

[Meriweather]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?

But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

Yes, we make our own sins, and we are responsible for them. Under the Old Covenants, cereal and animal sacrifices were offered as an atonement for sins. Note that while sins did not require a blood sacrifice, Covenants do.

Christ came with a new Covenant: Repentance (turning away from sin) for the forgiveness of sins. Imagine being a very poor Jew under Roman rule. The choice was to offer a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins--or feed one's family. The choice forced many into feeding their family and living in their sins.

Jesus appears on the scene and announces, "Sins are forgiven." With this new, radical statement, the poor had hope--and the Temple revenue and practices were suddenly declared to be obsolete. This disturbed those whose living (and wealth) depended on the Old Covenant. The very life of Judaism was centered around the Temple.

The accusations against Jesus were that he did not speak for God and had no authority to announce the forgiveness of sins. Their solution was to have Jesus put to death. Jesus met this with telling us his blood would be shed as a sign of the new Covenant that sins are forgiven. (Remember, a covenant requires blood.)

Compare this to a game of cards. Jesus' opponents play the death (blood) card; and Jesus responds by playing the covenant (blood) card. Then he seals the question of whether he has the authority to announce and consummate this new covenant by rising from the dead.

So, you are correct. Each individual must acknowledge and turn away from his sins--and make reparations where he can--for forgiveness of sins. This forgiveness is so complete that God remembers the sin no more, and the slate is clean, no hint of stain.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

It puts a responsibility on all to sin as otherwise the death of the savior was for nothing...........I've done my part......

 

[HaShev]

2 of the 3 christs were revolters (insurrection) against Rome. Tax revolter Yehuda of Galilee the Christ in the time of Lysanias and Herod who Bill O'reilly called
Jesus in his book. And The AD era christ by the River Jordan was Theudas who's apostles died by hands of Rome for their revolt. Yeshu son of Mary of 100bc was not a revolter nor sentenced by Rome. He was breaking the law regarding Egyptian influenced cultism and maggis scams (Benny Hinn type scaming).
Yeshu was mentored by a Rabbi but never became one oe they would have referred to him as one in recording the Rabbi mentor. Yehuda was leading the tax revolt also never called Rabbi, and Theudas was most likely the one considered a Rabbi teacher.
Rome tried to stop the insurections through hiding their Political authority (horn) behind their religious authority (horn) thus the symbol of the 2 horn system of Rome being a scarlot colored 2 horn beast. Rome could now get people to pay taxes under the guise of tithes offerings to their martyrs and gods and waltz into many kingdoms without insurection. By killing every cults followers there's nobody left to decipher the historical from the compiled myth. Each cult thinking the christ Rome's selling as the new authority is their christ.
Remember Paul and James were at odds claiming each was teaching another christ then they were.
Christ as any concerged character would, needed a new name, new birth date, had 2 jobs, 2 blames, 2 home towns, era does not add up to characters in the story, 2 ages he lasted to, 2 methods of persecution hanged & crucified, 2 descriptions of appearances, etc...all proof of a compiled figure.

 

[HaShev]

i suppose if you believe he was what you think he was..... i think he was a nice jewish rabbi who said some good stuff and was fomenting insurrection against rome and challenging the san herding. i think that's more than enough for a man to be.

2 of the 3 christs were revolters (insurrection) against Rome. Tax revolter Yehuda of Galilee the Christ in the time of Lysanias and Herod who Bill O'reilly called
Jesus in his book. And The AD era christ by the River Jordan was Theudas who's apostles died by hands of Rome for their revolt. Yeshu son of Mary of 100bc was not a revolter nor sentenced by Rome. He was breaking the law regarding Egyptian influenced cultism and maggis scams (Benny Hinn type scaming).
Yeshu was mentored by a Rabbi but never became one oe they would have referred to him as one in recording the Rabbi mentor. Yehuda was leading the tax revolt also never called Rabbi, and Theudas was most likely the one considered a Rabbi teacher.
Rome tried to stop the insurections through hiding their Political authority (horn) behind their religious authority (horn) thus the symbol of the 2 horn system of Rome being a scarlot colored 2 horn beast. Rome could now get people to pay taxes under the guise of tithes offerings to their martyrs and gods and waltz into many kingdoms without insurection. By killing every cults followers there's nobody left to decipher the historical from the compiled myth. Each cult thinking the christ Rome's selling as the new authority is their christ.
Remember Paul and James were at odds claiming each was teaching another christ then they were.
Christ as any converged character would, needed a new name, new birth date, had 2 jobs, 2 blames, 2 home towns, era does not add up to characters in the story, 2 ages he lasted to, 2 methods of persecution hanged & crucified, 2 descriptions of appearances, etc...all proof of a compiled figure.

 

[Dhara]

That doesn't make sense to me. We make our own "sins", we have to take responsibility for them. We can't expect someone else to purify them.

How much sense does it make that one man died over two thousand years ago from crucifixion and somehow that purifies anyone's sin now?

Surely, crucifixion is a tortorous way to die, AND many more people have died worse ways than crucifixion since then.

Are we to believe that Hitler was saved?

The entire story is incoherent.

God made mankind imperfect and inherently vulnerable to sin. Living a sinless life is impossible, so hell becomes unavoidable. That is, God creates people knowing for certain that they’re going to deserve eternity in hell when they die. Why create people that he knew would be destined for eternal torment?

But don’t worry—God sacrificed Jesus, one of the persons of God (whatever that means), so mankind could go to heaven instead.

So God sacrificed himself to himself so we could bypass a rule that God made himself and that God deliberately designed us to never be able to meet? I can’t even understand that; I certainly feel no need to praise God for something so nonsensical.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crosse...asons-the-crucifixion-story-makes-no-sense-2/

Yes, we make our own sins, and we are responsible for them. Under the Old Covenants, cereal and animal sacrifices were offered as an atonement for sins. Note that while sins did not require a blood sacrifice, Covenants do.

Christ came with a new Covenant: Repentance (turning away from sin) for the forgiveness of sins. Imagine being a very poor Jew under Roman rule. The choice was to offer a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins--or feed one's family. The choice forced many into feeding their family and living in their sins.

Jesus appears on the scene and announces, "Sins are forgiven." With this new, radical statement, the poor had hope--and the Temple revenue and practices were suddenly declared to be obsolete. This disturbed those whose living (and wealth) depended on the Old Covenant. The very life of Judaism was centered around the Temple.

The accusations against Jesus were that he did not speak for God and had no authority to announce the forgiveness of sins. Their solution was to have Jesus put to death. Jesus met this with telling us his blood would be shed as a sign of the new Covenant that sins are forgiven. (Remember, a covenant requires blood.)

Compare this to a game of cards. Jesus' opponents play the death (blood) card; and Jesus responds by playing the covenant (blood) card. Then he seals the question of whether he has the authority to announce and consummate this new covenant by rising from the dead.

So, you are correct. Each individual must acknowledge and turn away from his sins--and make reparations where he can--for forgiveness of sins. This forgiveness is so complete that God remembers the sin no more, and the slate is clean, no hint of stain.

Jesus wipes the sins of Hitler and serial killers away. No wonder there is so much prison conversion. Get out hell cards are so easy to come by.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus wipes the sins of Hitler and serial killers away. No wonder there is so much prison conversion. Get out hell cards are so easy to come by.

Did you see any sign of Hitler or serial killers turning away from the course he/they were on? Remember, it is turning from sin and to God that grants forgiveness of sin. Keep in mind, words are not enough. God judges what is in the heart. Jesus also taught that we were to discern the will of the Father (who is love) and follow it. Hitler and serial killers are not known for their love.

 

[Dhara]

Jesus wipes the sins of Hitler and serial killers away. No wonder there is so much prison conversion. Get out hell cards are so easy to come by.

Did you see any sign of Hitler or serial killers turning away from the course he/they were on? Remember, it is turning from sin and to God that grants forgiveness of sin. Keep in mind, words are not enough. God judges what is in the heart. Jesus also taught that we were to discern the will of the Father (who is love) and follow it. Hitler and serial killers are not known for their love.

No, it's not. All someone has to say is they are "saved".

 

[Meriweather]

No, it's not. All someone has to say is they are "saved".

Wrong. Jesus did not teach, "Say you are saved." He taught repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and doing the will of the Father.

I do not trust the broad way of any denomination who teaches, "All someone has to say is they are saved." The path is much narrower than that--as Jesus warned us that it would be.

 

[Dhara]

No, it's not. All someone has to say is they are "saved".

Wrong. Jesus did not teach, "Say you are saved." He taught repentance for the forgiveness of sins, and doing the will of the Father.

I do not trust the broad way of any denomination who teaches, "All someone has to say is they are saved." The path is much narrower than that--as Jesus warned us that it would be.

Still, the point I'm making is that it doesn't make sense that someone else can erase the harm you've done and send you to heaven when you've committed evil acts.

 

[Meriweather]

Still, the point I'm making is that it doesn't make sense that someone else can erase the harm you've done and send you to heaven when you've committed evil acts.

Catholic Christians agree with this. This why there must be repentance (turning away from sin) and reparation/restitution. Where the mercy and love of God come in is that some evil acts are of the kind that only God can heal. Jesus did not give his life lightly, but he gave it so that those who truly are repentant and those who truly make all restitution humanly possible are assured that their offenses are forgiven.

Understand that some (a minority) of Christians hold a belief that believing in Jesus is the only "turning to" they need. They see that as the same as turning from their sins, and believe that all future sins were forgiven two thousand years ago. Not so. The Covenant of Forgiveness of sins was consummated two thousand years ago, but people still must repent and seek the will of God and follow it. Unfortunately, the beliefs of some are taken as something that must be the beliefs of all Christians--and, the majority of Christians hold no such belief.

 

[Mudda]

If Jesus died for our sins, why am I expected to repent?

 

[Bonzi]

If Jesus died for our sins, why am I expected to repent?

Out of love for God, because he made the sacrifice for you. If you really believed Jesus died for your sins, you would WANT to repent and live a Godly life

 

[Meriweather]

If Jesus died for our sins, why am I expected to repent?

He didn't die for your sins. He gave his life so people might know of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

 

[HaShev]

If Jesus died for our sins, why am I expected to repent?

Out of love for God, because he made the sacrifice for you. If you really believed Jesus died for your sins, you would WANT to repent and live a Godly life

Exactly why your Christian neighbor steals your newspaper, because all he has to do is say Beetlejuice 3 times and he's automatically saved.

 

[koshergrl]

You have to WANT to understand.

Spiritual fulfillment doesn't come through reading a book, and them getting some warm fuzzy feeling followed by visions. God isn't going to prove Himself to you, it's the other way around.

You have to WANT to understand? It makes no sense. There is no God.

Of course you have to want to understand. Instead of standing around stupidly and saying "I don't get it, it's stoopid" you read with a desire to learn. Your OP implies you are interested in understanding..yet here you say you aren't.

Which is evidence of willful ignorance, and rejection of Christ for no good reason.

And the Bible has a lot to say about that. But you wouldn't understand it, you've admitted you don't want to understand it..so I suggest that you just quit worrying about it. It is obviously beyond your ken.

 

[Boss]

j'ever wonder why we never see Atheists fighting against leprechauns or unicorns? Isn't that odd? They spend their whole life immersed in this never-ending fight against something they claim to not believe in.... but not leprechauns or unicorns. Where are the Atheists anti-alien posts or anti-fairy posts? Billions of kids believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny, but not one single post do the Atheists devote to those characters. Why is that?

I'll tell you why...
It's because every Atheist has a God-given conscience and they KNOW that God is real.