Jesus on Marriage...

[Buford]

Fools mock the scriptures to their own destruction.

 

[Buford]

The only other passage in the NT I can find that may or may not be about homosexuality is the one in Romans where Paul (?) goes on about men and woman committing unnatural acts. Again, it isn't clear if he is condemning homosexuality or condemning heterosexuals acting like homosexuals because they've become idolatrous over sex.

Yeah that's one interpretation of it. It is Paul and again he is writing a letter to the Romans and in the first chapter he is essentially talking about how awesome he is....establishing his credentials and discussing how excited he is to come to Rome and share with the people of Rome the word of Christ and blah, blah. He writes that those who refuse God are turned from a natural state into a state where they would do things they would not normally do and he lists a whole bunch of stuff. The righteous become unrighteous, honest people become liars, etc. He is trying to make a distinction between pagans and himself and the path of God. And he writes that some will turn away from their natural desires and engage in homosexual orgies, pagan ritual involving sexual activity that one would not normally do....stuff like that.

So what the anti-gay crowd always focuses on are the two lines where it talks about that kind of homosexual activity, but again they take the whole thing out of context and overlook that Paul is talking about people doing what would not be part of their nature anyhow and they conveniently overlook that right after that in 2:1 Paul says that those people should not be judged, God has given them the right to do those things, and essentially we all do things that fall short of God, and leave it to Him to sort out.

Romans 1 definitely points out that in Paul's opinion there are at least some forms of homosexual activity that he finds distasteful, but whether he meant it generally or specific to those who participate in homosexual activity not because they are inherently homosexual but because pagan tradition sometimes demands it, is up for debate.

That's kinda funny in a sad sort of way. It says "God gave them over". That means God left them and they are without hope. Everyone has "the right" to do what they wish because God gave everyone the "right" of free will. That's what that verse is saying. You're mistaken.

 

[Ravi]

Fools mock the scriptures to their own destruction.

I don't see anyone mocking them but I see people making an effort to understand them.

It would be mocking the scriptures if you continue to believe something that isn't in them.

 

[BluePhantom]

And again.



peace...

Dude...what is it about all this that you can't seem to grasp. You are quoting ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS of Bible scriptures. You are clearly not grasping that what they say in English and what they say in Hebrew are two different things. What they say in English and what they say in Greek are two different things. You have me trying to explain that to you, you have a guy with a degree in theology trying to explain that to you, you have everyone trying to get this simple concept through your thick skull and all you are doing is referring back to those same English translations thinking that you are making some awesome point. DUDE....go research it for yourself. I gave you the link to a book that gets into in very good detail and it's cheap. You have the internet at your fingers...google "arsenokotai" and read what it says. You will get multiple points of view.

I mean good God man, are you really this firmly entrenched in your way of thinking that you simply can't grasp that maybe...just maybe...the English translations are not accurate?

What part of Beastiality is OK using your Logic are you Missing?...



peace...

When did I ever even mention bestiality? We're talking about homosexuality here, chum.

 

[Buford]

Fools mock the scriptures to their own destruction.

I don't see anyone mocking them but I see people making an effort to understand them.

It would be mocking the scriptures if you continue to believe something that isn't in them.

You don't want to understand Scripture. You want to twist it to agree with what you believe. That is mocking. Serious business when you twist and mock God's Word.

 

[BluePhantom]

That's kinda funny in a sad sort of way. It says "God gave them over". That means God left them and they are without hope. Everyone has "the right" to do what they wish because God gave everyone the "right" of free will. That's what that verse is saying. You're mistaken.

(sigh).....again here we go....you are looking at four words and ignoring the rest. God gave us free will. Romans 1 is discussing people who knew God but turned away from Him or were shown God but chose not to accept Him. They chose to leave God or simply not to accept Him. God is not going to argue. God is going to say "ok if that's what you want, knock yourself out" and then He will sit back and let you do whatever you choose.

 

[Amelia]

Dude...what is it about all this that you can't seem to grasp. You are quoting ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS of Bible scriptures. You are clearly not grasping that what they say in English and what they say in Hebrew are two different things. What they say in English and what they say in Greek are two different things. You have me trying to explain that to you, you have a guy with a degree in theology trying to explain that to you, you have everyone trying to get this simple concept through your thick skull and all you are doing is referring back to those same English translations thinking that you are making some awesome point. DUDE....go research it for yourself. I gave you the link to a book that gets into in very good detail and it's cheap. You have the internet at your fingers...google "arsenokotai" and read what it says. You will get multiple points of view.

I mean good God man, are you really this firmly entrenched in your way of thinking that you simply can't grasp that maybe...just maybe...the English translations are not accurate?

What part of Beastiality is OK using your Logic are you Missing?...



peace...

When did I ever even mention bestiality? We're talking about homosexuality here, chum.

The Bible mentions bestiality in tandem with homosexual acts.

So the argument which is used to say that homosexual acts are somehow only called wrong in some ritual or when done without the right washing or whatever, that same argument could be applied to bestiality. It's only called wrong when done in the temple when one has just had sex with a woman and not washed up, or some such.

 

[Ravi]

Fools mock the scriptures to their own destruction.

I don't see anyone mocking them but I see people making an effort to understand them.

It would be mocking the scriptures if you continue to believe something that isn't in them.

You don't want to understand Scripture. You want to twist it to agree with what you believe. That is mocking. Serious business when you twist and mock God's Word.

Now you are bearing false witness.

 

[Ravi]

What part of Beastiality is OK using your Logic are you Missing?...



peace...

When did I ever even mention bestiality? We're talking about homosexuality here, chum.

The Bible mentions bestiality in tandem with homosexual acts.

So the argument which is used to say that homosexual acts are somehow only called wrong in some ritual or when done without the right washing or whatever, that same argument could be applied to bestiality. It's only called wrong when done in the temple when one has just had sex with a woman and not washed up, or some such.

Not quite in tandem. Mentioned is the same list. I would imagine the translation for "lying with animals" is pretty straightforward but I don't know that for sure.

Perhaps BP can enlighten us.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The word that is translated from Hebrew to mean "abomination" more likely is mistranslated.

The meaning is more closely translated as "taboo".

 

[bodecea]

I don't see anyone mocking them but I see people making an effort to understand them.

It would be mocking the scriptures if you continue to believe something that isn't in them.

You don't want to understand Scripture. You want to twist it to agree with what you believe. That is mocking. Serious business when you twist and mock God's Word.

Now you are bearing false witness.

That's ok. It must be. Many of them do it so much.

 

[Buford]

That's kinda funny in a sad sort of way. It says "God gave them over". That means God left them and they are without hope. Everyone has "the right" to do what they wish because God gave everyone the "right" of free will. That's what that verse is saying. You're mistaken.

(sigh).....again here we go....you are looking at four words and ignoring the rest. God gave us free will. Romans 1 is discussing people who knew God but turned away from Him or were shown God but chose not to accept Him. They chose to leave God or simply not to accept Him. God is not going to argue. God is going to say "ok if that's what you want, knock yourself out" and then He will sit back and let you do whatever you choose.

And it's speaking about homosexuals.

 

[Buford]

I don't see anyone mocking them but I see people making an effort to understand them.

It would be mocking the scriptures if you continue to believe something that isn't in them.

You don't want to understand Scripture. You want to twist it to agree with what you believe. That is mocking. Serious business when you twist and mock God's Word.

Now you are bearing false witness.

Nope. I've read your posts. Give us that Greek word again and your translation.

 

[NLT]

You don't want to understand Scripture. You want to twist it to agree with what you believe. That is mocking. Serious business when you twist and mock God's Word.

Now you are bearing false witness.

That's ok. It must be. Many of them do it so much.

You would know.

 

[Buford]

The only other passage in the NT I can find that may or may not be about homosexuality is the one in Romans where Paul (?) goes on about men and woman committing unnatural acts. Again, it isn't clear if he is condemning homosexuality or condemning heterosexuals acting like homosexuals because they've become idolatrous over sex.

It's clear to me. The Scriptures are understood in the light of the Holy Spirit, while you look at Scripture through your indoctrination.

 

[Buford]

You don't want to understand Scripture. You want to twist it to agree with what you believe. That is mocking. Serious business when you twist and mock God's Word.

Now you are bearing false witness.

That's ok. It must be. Many of them do it so much.

Make your case, if you can. Tossing mud isn't gonna work on me.

 

[Katzndogz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Newby View Post
I didn't say either of those were 'homosexual institutions', but homosexual sex certainly falls into both of those categories. What the Romans did or did not do has no bearing on what the Bible said or didn't say, the two are completely unrelated as far as this topic goes.

Ah, but by then the Romans were Christian. The argument a lot of you make is that marriage is traditionally defined as male/female but in actuality it has also been in the past, and before Christianity, defined otherwise too.

Many Many times marriage has been defined differently. Those values have never survived. The civilizations that believed that have always collapsed or been conquered. As many times as same sex relationships have been considered normal behavior in the past, that value was never passed along to successors. Otherwise we would have had same sex marriage for thousands of years.

 

[Ravi]

The only other passage in the NT I can find that may or may not be about homosexuality is the one in Romans where Paul (?) goes on about men and woman committing unnatural acts. Again, it isn't clear if he is condemning homosexuality or condemning heterosexuals acting like homosexuals because they've become idolatrous over sex.

It's clear to me. The Scriptures are understood in the light of the Holy Spirit, while you look at Scripture through your indoctrination.

Still bearing false witness, I see. You realize you are breaking a commandment or two.

My only "indoctrination" has been the Catholic Church.

 

[Ravi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Newby View Post
I didn't say either of those were 'homosexual institutions', but homosexual sex certainly falls into both of those categories. What the Romans did or did not do has no bearing on what the Bible said or didn't say, the two are completely unrelated as far as this topic goes.

Ah, but by then the Romans were Christian. The argument a lot of you make is that marriage is traditionally defined as male/female but in actuality it has also been in the past, and before Christianity, defined otherwise too.

Many Many times marriage has been defined differently. Those values have never survived. The civilizations that believed that have always collapsed or been conquered. As many times as same sex relationships have been considered normal behavior in the past, that value was never passed along to successors. Otherwise we would have had same sex marriage for thousands of years.

Which civilizations do you speak of?

 

[Buford]

The only other passage in the NT I can find that may or may not be about homosexuality is the one in Romans where Paul (?) goes on about men and woman committing unnatural acts. Again, it isn't clear if he is condemning homosexuality or condemning heterosexuals acting like homosexuals because they've become idolatrous over sex.

It's clear to me. The Scriptures are understood in the light of the Holy Spirit, while you look at Scripture through your indoctrination.

Still bearing false witness, I see. You realize you are breaking a commandment or two.

My only "indoctrination" has been the Catholic Church.

That could be your problem. Your suppositions are not based on scripture but on your own ideas. That isn't how Scripture is understood.