Jesus on Marriage...

[koshergrl]

Lol..so predictable.

So we have established you have no credentials when it comes to deciphering ancient texts. Thank you.

 

[koshergrl]

And I completely understand why you don't want to continue to talk to me. But that won't stop you. People like you can't help yourselves, you ALWAYS out yourself! For those who doubt it, check out my sig....

 

[Cenotaph]

You need to remember that the bible is rather poetic and makes extensive use of metaphors. Especially in this case... The third instance described ("there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven") is mostly commonly thought as those choosing a life of celibacy. They're not literally eunuchs either... it's just a metaphor.

As I previously mentioned... it really just depends on one's own interpretation of certain texts.

Correct but we are talking to people who think that when it says Lot's wife was turned into "a pillar of salt" that she literally became a column of sodium chloride.

Oh I see so the Bible was being "poetic" and using a metaphor when using the word "eunuchs" to talk about homosexuals as well.

You people are so desperate to justify homosexuality. Why can't you queers just say you disagree with the Bible and leave it at that? Instead you have to lie about what is clearly stated in the Bible in order to try to convice us that what your abhorrent behavior perfectly normal and even moral.

See, I don't really care what the Bible or Jesus has to say about homosexuality... as I previously mentioned. I simply quoted what he said and submitted my own interpretation (which is also a common interpretation) because I felt a lot of people were misguided in this situation. Want to continue to condemn homosexuals? Fine. Want to keep using words like "queer" and "faggot?" Go for it. I honestly don't care what myopic views you cling to just so long as it doesn't effect my way of living.

Consider this: how about form an argument instead of resorting to insults and sarcasm?

 

[del]

Oh, it's the old "I told you long ago" schtick.

That's what Dragon, and Jakey use as well. It's standard material for fake scholars. As is posting links to "forbidden access" sites.

that was mal's site, asshat

 

[koshergrl]

Huh..well it was also linked in BP's post.

 

[del]

Huh..well it was also linked in BP's post.

fail

again

 

[koshergrl]

Ah well.

Do you know what his Hebrew creds are?

 

[del]

Ah well.

Do you know what his Hebrew creds are?

nope, but then, it's the internet. his arguments are rational and don't depend on endless repetition and foot stomping

please continue your rant; i haven't finished my popcorn yet.

 

[koshergrl]

Be careful, I'd hate for you to choke.

 

[del]

i've been despondent since you dropped me from your sig

 

[koshergrl]

Oh well, I can fix that.

 

[Ravi]

Not with me. Romans 1:26-27 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error."

Explain that to me.

I already did. Scroll back to previous pages. In fact I addressed it twice. Go look. It's not my problem if you ignored it the first two times.

You didn't address it with me. That passage is speaking of homosexiality. If you can't see that, then you're deceived.

You're a dope. Seriously.

 

[Ravi]

You can use whatever version you want. They all say the same thing, a man having sex with another man is a disgusting act. No amount of tapdancing that you do is ever going to change that.

No they fucking don't genius. They do NOT say the same thing so since you say I can use any version I want I will use the Hebrew Interlinear Version which says

"and male not you shall lie beds of women unclean he"

There you go.....makes a lot of fucking sense doesn't it?

Not to you. That doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, however.

I love the arrogance of pseudo intellectuals who think that if they can't make sense out of something that is beyond their capabilities and education to understand, why, then, it must not make sense! "If I can't understand it, NOBODY can!"

Please. Tell us what it means to you.

 

[Ravi]

Lev 20:13, my literal rendition:

And a man who lies down with a male in a woman's place of copulation makes an abomination, the two of them must be totally killed, thier blood is on them.

"And a man who lies down with a male" is straightforward Hebrew. The "in a woman's place of copulation" is just like I said before. "Makes an abomination" is straightforward Hebrew, with "a man" being the subject. The two of them must be killed" is straightforward Hebrew again, as the verb "to kill" is Hophal, meaning causative (IIRC) and often imperative. The "totally" comes from a Hebrew grammar quirk that when a verb is being stressed, the infinitive will be attached to the finite use of the verb. In other words, a word for word rendering would be "must be killed to die," which really does not make a lot of sense. This type of grammatical thing is, as I said, all over the Hebrew OT. "Their blood is on them" is a typical copulative phrase.

_________________________________

A copulative phrase is a phrase wherein only nouns occur but a form of the verb "to be" must be inserted due to the grammatical construct. Almost all languages have some sort of copulative phrase.

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 - Translation Help, Please!

What you've proven here is that, at the time, you couldn't have sex in a woman's bed.

And that the Hebrews were like Valley Girls. Totally.

 

[theHawk]

Correct but we are talking to people who think that when it says Lot's wife was turned into "a pillar of salt" that she literally became a column of sodium chloride.

Oh I see so the Bible was being "poetic" and using a metaphor when using the word "eunuchs" to talk about homosexuals as well.

You people are so desperate to justify homosexuality. Why can't you queers just say you disagree with the Bible and leave it at that? Instead you have to lie about what is clearly stated in the Bible in order to try to convice us that what your abhorrent behavior perfectly normal and even moral.

See, I don't really care what the Bible or Jesus has to say about homosexuality... as I previously mentioned. I simply quoted what he said and submitted my own interpretation (which is also a common interpretation) because I felt a lot of people were misguided in this situation. Want to continue to condemn homosexuals? Fine. Want to keep using words like "queer" and "faggot?" Go for it. I honestly don't care what myopic views you cling to just so long as it doesn't effect my way of living.

Consider this: how about form an argument instead of resorting to insults and sarcasm?

Sorry, I didn't realize the term queer or faggot was any more derogatory than homosexual.

But thanks for clearing up the fact that you really don't care what the Bible or Jesus says about homosexuality in a thread dedicated to it.

 

[theHawk]

ok 20:13


20:13
u·aish
and·man
אֲשֶׁ ר
ashr
who
יִשְׁ כַּ ב
ishkb
he-is-lying-(down
אֶ ת
ath
with)
־
-
זָכָ ר
zkr
male
מִ שְׁ כְּ בֵ י
mshkbi
beds-of
אִ שָּׁ ה
ashe
woman
תּעֵבָ ה
thuobe
abhorrence
עָשׂוּ
oshu
(t)he(y-did)
שְׁ נֵיהֶ ם
shni·em
two-of·(th)em

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/lev20.pdf

so let's get rid of the stuff added in because of Midrash and we have:

"and man who he is lying male beds of women abhorrence he two of (indiscernible)"


Like I said....20:13 is almost an identical copy to 18:22....neither of them make any sense. Only when you add words as you can see VERY clearly in that link from what is in bold and what is not do those verses make sense. As the verses are written they are completely incomprehensible. Now if after all this, you still don't understand that those verses are completely screwed up in the English translations, then I don't what to tell you anymore. if after all this you still don't get it, then the simple fact is that you are never going to break out of the indoctrination of your mind and it's pointless to continue.

Wow... Just wow.

I don't Think you are aware of how Dishonest you are being.



peace...

I'm being dishonest? Dude I gave you links to the verse in fucking Hebrew? Translated word for word and not translated by me but by someone who is completely detached from this discussion....and you are still grasping for everything you can find. DUDE...enough is enough, man. I have given you link after to link to literal translations, people with doctorates in theology, linguists, historians, link to books so you can research it yourself....Jesus H. Christ what more do I have to do?

Why are you so threatened by the idea that the English translation you are used to reading may in fact be wrong?

You don't translate from language to language strictly word by word. Its quite obvious you know nothing about linguistics or foreign languages in general.

Carry on, dipshit.

 

[koshergrl]

Lev 20:13, my literal rendition:

And a man who lies down with a male in a woman's place of copulation makes an abomination, the two of them must be totally killed, thier blood is on them.

"And a man who lies down with a male" is straightforward Hebrew. The "in a woman's place of copulation" is just like I said before. "Makes an abomination" is straightforward Hebrew, with "a man" being the subject. The two of them must be killed" is straightforward Hebrew again, as the verb "to kill" is Hophal, meaning causative (IIRC) and often imperative. The "totally" comes from a Hebrew grammar quirk that when a verb is being stressed, the infinitive will be attached to the finite use of the verb. In other words, a word for word rendering would be "must be killed to die," which really does not make a lot of sense. This type of grammatical thing is, as I said, all over the Hebrew OT. "Their blood is on them" is a typical copulative phrase.

_________________________________

A copulative phrase is a phrase wherein only nouns occur but a form of the verb "to be" must be inserted due to the grammatical construct. Almost all languages have some sort of copulative phrase.

Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 - Translation Help, Please!

What you've proven here is that, at the time, you couldn't have sex in a woman's bed.

And that the Hebrews were like Valley Girls. Totally.

That's why we defer to real experts when it comes to biblical translation, folks.

 

[koshergrl]

Wow... Just wow.

I don't Think you are aware of how Dishonest you are being.



peace...

I'm being dishonest? Dude I gave you links to the verse in fucking Hebrew? Translated word for word and not translated by me but by someone who is completely detached from this discussion....and you are still grasping for everything you can find. DUDE...enough is enough, man. I have given you link after to link to literal translations, people with doctorates in theology, linguists, historians, link to books so you can research it yourself....Jesus H. Christ what more do I have to do?

Why are you so threatened by the idea that the English translation you are used to reading may in fact be wrong?

You don't translate from language to language strictly word by word. Its quite obvious you know nothing about linguistics or foreign languages in general.

Carry on, dipshit.

EXACTLY.

What he said!

 

[mal]

Wow... Just wow.

I don't Think you are aware of how Dishonest you are being.



peace...

I'm being dishonest? Dude I gave you links to the verse in fucking Hebrew? Translated word for word and not translated by me but by someone who is completely detached from this discussion....and you are still grasping for everything you can find. DUDE...enough is enough, man. I have given you link after to link to literal translations, people with doctorates in theology, linguists, historians, link to books so you can research it yourself....Jesus H. Christ what more do I have to do?

Why are you so threatened by the idea that the English translation you are used to reading may in fact be wrong?

You don't translate from language to language strictly word by word. Its quite obvious you know nothing about linguistics or foreign languages in general.

Carry on, dipshit.

That's why I finally gave up on him... That level of Dishonesty isn't worth the Effort.



peace...

 

[del]

^

irony abounds