Jesus the Socialist

[Tommy Tainant]

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Dear Tommy Tainant
1. helping each other with FAITH that what comes around goes around is charity, the point is to be unconditional and to give and share for its own sake. And yes this can be based on faith it's for the greater good, benefiting all people, and it's still charity.

2. doing things by CONDITION or EXPECTATION of reward is neither charity or welfare.

What do you mean by that?

3. And would you be okay with replacing welfare with microlending where people are mentored to follow a business or educational plan to pay back what they borrow so this is paid forward to help the next person.

Both Obama and Carson believe in microlending as the better way to help people break out of poverty.

Isn't there a better way to teach people "how to fish" rather than just keep fishing and feeding them by handouts?

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Dear Tommy Tainant
1. helping each other with FAITH that what comes around goes around is charity, the point is to be unconditional and to give and share for its own sake. And yes this can be based on faith it's for the greater good, benefiting all people, and it's still charity.

2. doing things by CONDITION or EXPECTATION of reward is neither charity or welfare.

What do you mean by that?

3. And would you be okay with replacing welfare with microlending where people are mentored to follow a business or educational plan to pay back what they borrow so this is paid forward to help the next person.

Both Obama and Carson believe in microlending as the better way to help people break out of poverty.

Isn't there a better way to teach people "how to fish" rather than just keep fishing and feeding them by handouts?

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Dear Tommy Tainant
1. helping each other with FAITH that what comes around goes around is charity, the point is to be unconditional and to give and share for its own sake. And yes this can be based on faith it's for the greater good, benefiting all people, and it's still charity.

2. doing things by CONDITION or EXPECTATION of reward is neither charity or welfare.

What do you mean by that?

3. And would you be okay with replacing welfare with microlending where people are mentored to follow a business or educational plan to pay back what they borrow so this is paid forward to help the next person.

Both Obama and Carson believe in microlending as the better way to help people break out of poverty.

Isn't there a better way to teach people "how to fish" rather than just keep fishing and feeding them by handouts?

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

I dont think this response is in the spirit of the CDZ.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Tommy Tainant if I hadn't answered this before
There is a DIFFERENCE between Jesus teaching
being enforced by FREE WILL through religious exercise, the church, the charities and individual FREE CHOICE
vs.
being mandated through govt which is in violation of
Constitutional laws against govt establishing religion.

People can believe in free health care by volunteering to help others through donations and charitable programs and teaching hospitals.

And that is completely separate from mandating this through govt and forced taxation.

Last I checked, Tommy Tainant, the liberals who preach "separation of church and state" did NOT want references to Christianity, crosses, God Jesus, creation, prayer or Bibles pushed through schools.
Individuals have rights to practice this but not public schools that are funded by taxpayers.

So which way do you want it?

If you want Jesus principles mandated through govt,
then you'd have to put up with religious beliefs in no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no homosexuality etc.

Make up your mind.

Just be careful what you ask for; when you get the govt you deserve, you may not like it!

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

OK so what are your complaints about the "right" -- are you saying they aren't following the teachings of Jesus in their church charity and social outreach and activities?

Or are you complaining they are contradicting the teachings of Jesus in their political and govt stances?

Which realm are you complaining about the "right wing" twisting Jesus teaching backwards and contradicting it?

Thanks Tommy Tainant

I see the Gospel twisted into a hate theology.
I see minorities abused and persecuted.
I see the poor despised.
I see Preachers running million dollar ministries.

Its an ology but it isnt Christianity.

OK Tommy Tainant

1. if you see the poor despised and blamed and treated as criminal for being poor, do you also see the rich being despised and blamed and treated as criminal for being rich.

Where is the due process in proving who did what wrong before accusing and punishing someone? is it okay to blame all the poor as a class because of the wrongs of a few? is it okay to blame all the rich as a class because of the wrongs of a few?

Are you treating both rich and poor equally, or are you judging the rich for being rich as people judge the poor for being poor.

If one is wrong isn't the other wrong to judge by whether they are rich or poor and 'assuming' they are lacking in character?

2. if you see the preachers abusing religion for profit, do you also credit the ministers who DO reach out and do free spiritual healing and organize charity and don't do this for reward credit or profit?

Are you crediting the good with the bad?

I'm not saying to overlook the bad, I'm saying why not trust the people teaching and practicing it right to CORRECT their brothers and neighbors who are abusing it for wrong.

I see this correction all the time. The Christians will go after Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Muslims, anyone they feel is teaching people to reject Jesus and try to correct that.

Some people correct things the right way using Matthew 18:15-20 and James 5:16 Matthew 5:44 etc. some go about it destructively and negatively which doesn't work so well.

Are you crediting the people who are (a) practicing sharing and teaching Christianity the right way (b) correcting their neighbors so they don't keep abusing religion and doing the opposite of what Christianity teaches?

for each example you give of something bad Tommy Tainant
can you list 1. one person or group that is doing this bad thing 1. one person or group that is doing the right thing instead

Does the list come out even, or aren't there more people/groups doing things the right way than the wrong way?

 

[Votto]

jesus is my hero. he is a hyper-rebel.

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

 

[Holos]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Blessed are the Peacemakers is anti-War? It is post-War, in fact.

Jesus fought FOR social justice? No. Jesus exercised social justice.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Dear Tommy Tainant
1. helping each other with FAITH that what comes around goes around is charity, the point is to be unconditional and to give and share for its own sake. And yes this can be based on faith it's for the greater good, benefiting all people, and it's still charity.

2. doing things by CONDITION or EXPECTATION of reward is neither charity or welfare.

What do you mean by that?

3. And would you be okay with replacing welfare with microlending where people are mentored to follow a business or educational plan to pay back what they borrow so this is paid forward to help the next person.

Both Obama and Carson believe in microlending as the better way to help people break out of poverty.

Isn't there a better way to teach people "how to fish" rather than just keep fishing and feeding them by handouts?

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

I dont think this response is in the spirit of the CDZ.

Sorry, I don't know how to respond to such an ignorant and biased statement.

 

[emilynghiem]

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

1. The argument is that people like those committing crimes that get them stuck in prison at 50K a year (and then can't work but end up on welfare after that) are costing taxpayers who are working and paying in.

Tommy Tainant if we who pay taxes are getting the welfare we are entitled to, then why are people in prison getting their health care and housing paid for by taxes, while people who don't commit crimes are fined for not paying ADDITIONAL money for insurance?

Why isn't our health care already paid for if we are paying 50K a year for each person in prison?

Are you sure these people are paying for what they are getting?

2. what allows DIGNITY is free choice and CONSENT.

so Tommy Tainant if you CONSENT to pay for welfare through govt, then you see this as dignified. If someone consents to receive welfare this way, they may see it as dignified.

Can you speak for yourself and not assume you speak for others who DON'T consent to keep paying for others while not getting their benefits paid for?

one of my friends, a lifelong Democrat who votes straight D tickets without exception, HATES having to go through the county hospital system and beg for appts at the mercy of govt.

he would LOVE I mean LOVE to have the benefits that people in govt have that is paid for by taxpayers.

His question is why are we paying for officials to have top health care, while they don't give us jack and we are expected to pay higher rates or else be fined?

Where is the dignity in taxation without representation?

Clearly Tommy Tainant if you believe this represents you and give you a sense of dignity and security, GREAT!

But what about other people?

I have felt like a SLAVE trying to pay the costs of govt, not just the damage done to my neighborhood by govt abuses that nonprofit volunteers had to repair ourselves, but to add the health care insurance mandates ON TOP of what I am already covering was the straw that broke the camel's back.

If you consent to this, that is your choice,

What makes you think you have the right to dictate that for someone else?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

1. The argument is that people like those committing crimes that get them stuck in prison at 50K a year (and then can't work but end up on welfare after that) are costing taxpayers who are working and paying in.

Tommy Tainant if we who pay taxes are getting the welfare we are entitled to, then why are people in prison getting their health care and housing paid for by taxes, while people who don't commit crimes are fined for not paying ADDITIONAL money for insurance?

Why isn't our health care already paid for if we are paying 50K a year for each person in prison?

Are you sure these people are paying for what they are getting?

2. what allows DIGNITY is free choice and CONSENT.

so Tommy Tainant if you CONSENT to pay for welfare through govt, then you see this as dignified. If someone consents to receive welfare this way, they may see it as dignified.

Can you speak for yourself and not assume you speak for others who DON'T consent to keep paying for others while not getting their benefits paid for?

one of my friends, a lifelong Democrat who votes straight D tickets without exception, HATES having to go through the county hospital system and beg for appts at the mercy of govt.

he would LOVE I mean LOVE to have the benefits that people in govt have that is paid for by taxpayers.

His question is why are we paying for officials to have top health care, while they don't give us jack and we are expected to pay higher rates or else be fined?

Where is the dignity in taxation without representation?

Clearly Tommy Tainant if you believe this represents you and give you a sense of dignity and security, GREAT!

But what about other people?

I have felt like a SLAVE trying to pay the costs of govt, not just the damage done to my neighborhood by govt abuses that nonprofit volunteers had to repair ourselves, but to add the health care insurance mandates ON TOP of what I am already covering was the straw that broke the camel's back.

If you consent to this, that is your choice,

What makes you think you have the right to dictate that for someone else?

You need to focus your thoughts as this just reads as a whinge about taxation.

If you just dont want to help the poor then say so.

For myself I would rather help my neighbour to feed his kids than bomb Syrian hospitals.

What would Jesus prefer ?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Remember when Jesus chided the Roman to "pay their fair share "?

Progressives are evil

 

[Iceweasel]

One thing is certain: if "Christians" functioned as "Christianity" and Jesus teach, the political movement Socialism represents would not be necessary.

How does that work? Everyone is a Christian in your area?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

1. The argument is that people like those committing crimes that get them stuck in prison at 50K a year (and then can't work but end up on welfare after that) are costing taxpayers who are working and paying in.

Tommy Tainant if we who pay taxes are getting the welfare we are entitled to, then why are people in prison getting their health care and housing paid for by taxes, while people who don't commit crimes are fined for not paying ADDITIONAL money for insurance?

Why isn't our health care already paid for if we are paying 50K a year for each person in prison?

Are you sure these people are paying for what they are getting?

2. what allows DIGNITY is free choice and CONSENT.

so Tommy Tainant if you CONSENT to pay for welfare through govt, then you see this as dignified. If someone consents to receive welfare this way, they may see it as dignified.

Can you speak for yourself and not assume you speak for others who DON'T consent to keep paying for others while not getting their benefits paid for?

one of my friends, a lifelong Democrat who votes straight D tickets without exception, HATES having to go through the county hospital system and beg for appts at the mercy of govt.

he would LOVE I mean LOVE to have the benefits that people in govt have that is paid for by taxpayers.

His question is why are we paying for officials to have top health care, while they don't give us jack and we are expected to pay higher rates or else be fined?

Where is the dignity in taxation without representation?

Clearly Tommy Tainant if you believe this represents you and give you a sense of dignity and security, GREAT!

But what about other people?

I have felt like a SLAVE trying to pay the costs of govt, not just the damage done to my neighborhood by govt abuses that nonprofit volunteers had to repair ourselves, but to add the health care insurance mandates ON TOP of what I am already covering was the straw that broke the camel's back.

If you consent to this, that is your choice,

What makes you think you have the right to dictate that for someone else?

You need to focus your thoughts as this just reads as a whinge about taxation.

If you just dont want to help the poor then say so.

For myself I would rather help my neighbour to feed his kids than bomb Syrian hospitals.

What would Jesus prefer ?

Who was this neighbor that needed help feeding his kids, how many kids did he have, how much did you help?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

What is your point with that quote?

It illustrates that he believed the rich should pay more. Its implicit.

The meaning of his teachings is clear. Charity from one's own hand and wealth will "build up treasure in heaven".

Reaching your hand into someone else's pocket and giving the stolen goods to the poor is mere theft.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

If you study early Christianity closely you will also see that "they had all things in common".

So they were not just socialist. They were communist.

Nope. I'm sure they didn't hold a knife to new members' throats saying "Give us yer stuff."[/QUOTE]

Sharing was voluntary.

 

[yiostheoy]

Dear yiostheoy I am guessing you are taking that way too literally.

They are not saying you can do anything and still be forgiven and go to heaven.

They are saying that once you really commit, then you will either follow the law or correct yourself when you do fall short.

Once you accept to forgive and to receive God's grace, then by continuing to follow in that spirit, all other things can be corrected that would otherwise prevent salvation.

So the works still follow, yiostheoy in fact people are so compelled they can no longer go back and do things against God's will without receiving rebuke until they correct themselves.

That is why Protestants are so big on rebuking each other by scripture, because they are now compelled to accept correction and can no longer refuse by conscience, once they commit to Christ authority to embody and enforce the laws.

What they mean by works not causing salvation is that we don't judge by APPEARANCE of works because this is misleading; it is the SPIRIT of the person and sharing that makes it spiritual or makes it material; and we can't tell just by "judging on the surface what is good works"

So this is a warning not to judge people by their works.

Otherwise yiostheoy we run the risk of judging a poor widow who only has two cents to give as "not doing works to help others" while looking at a rich man who gives millions of dollars to help the poor as better than the poor woman because "he helps more people."

So we don't want to fall into the trap of judging people as closer to God or heaven "based on their physical works"

This all sounds like verbose Protestant bullsh!t to me.

I already know what Protestants believe.

If you are a Protestant I strongly suggest that you read the New Testament and do exactly what Jesus said.

That may or may NOT be what your Protestant minister tells you.

Q.E.D.

 

[yiostheoy]

Remember when Jesus chided the Roman to "pay their fair share "?

Progressives are evil

If you are going to quote something then google it first and find the cite.

Otherwise you are just promulgating a hear-say fallacy.

 

[Iceweasel]

Tommy boy. Riddle me this, how does one get to heaven by obeying government?

 

[onefour1]

Jesus was killed for no other reason than to atone for the sins of mankind and bring about the resurrection of the dead.

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

[Tilly]

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Dear Tommy Tainant
1. helping each other with FAITH that what comes around goes around is charity, the point is to be unconditional and to give and share for its own sake. And yes this can be based on faith it's for the greater good, benefiting all people, and it's still charity.

2. doing things by CONDITION or EXPECTATION of reward is neither charity or welfare.

What do you mean by that?

3. And would you be okay with replacing welfare with microlending where people are mentored to follow a business or educational plan to pay back what they borrow so this is paid forward to help the next person.

Both Obama and Carson believe in microlending as the better way to help people break out of poverty.

Isn't there a better way to teach people "how to fish" rather than just keep fishing and feeding them by handouts?

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

We are entitled to welfare because we have paid our taxes. It is there for all of us and is a right.

Welfare is superior to charity in that it allows the recipient to retain some dignity.

I dont think this response is in the spirit of the CDZ.

YOUR flaming thread isn't in the CDZ

 

[Coyote]

FYI - Thread is no longer in CDZ, but in Religion (Zone 2 rules apply)