Jesus the Socialist

[irosie91]

Dear Tommy Tainant if I hadn't answered this before
There is a DIFFERENCE between Jesus teaching
being enforced by FREE WILL through religious exercise, the church, the charities and individual FREE CHOICE
vs.
being mandated through govt which is in violation of
Constitutional laws against govt establishing religion.

People can believe in free health care by volunteering to help others through donations and charitable programs and teaching hospitals.

And that is completely separate from mandating this through govt and forced taxation.

Last I checked, Tommy Tainant, the liberals who preach "separation of church and state" did NOT want references to Christianity, crosses, God Jesus, creation, prayer or Bibles pushed through schools.
Individuals have rights to practice this but not public schools that are funded by taxpayers.

So which way do you want it?

If you want Jesus principles mandated through govt,
then you'd have to put up with religious beliefs in no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no homosexuality etc.

Make up your mind.

Just be careful what you ask for; when you get the govt you deserve, you may not like it!

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

OK so what are your complaints about the "right" -- are you saying they aren't following the teachings of Jesus in their church charity and social outreach and activities?

Or are you complaining they are contradicting the teachings of Jesus in their political and govt stances?

Which realm are you complaining about the "right wing" twisting Jesus teaching backwards and contradicting it?

Thanks Tommy Tainant

I see the Gospel twisted into a hate theology.
I see minorities abused and persecuted.
I see the poor despised.
I see Preachers running million dollar ministries.

Its an ology but it isnt Christianity.

where and when was there "christianology or ity" ?

 

[Weatherman2020]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

That's funny, I certainly never ran across this "you don't need to do anything to get to heaven" ideology when I was teaching SUNDAY SCHOOL.

Can you find me the scripture that establishes that? Or even a quote from a church leader who says it?

I know you won't, no more than you could provide any evidence that socialism was built upon Christian ideology.

Omg that's so freaking laughable. But this is fun.

Well, you don't need to do anything except believe. James make works clear, and the man on the cross next to Jesus converting went to Paradise that day.

Dear Weatherman2020
All the people I know who truly believe in Christ Jesus live by Restorative Justice. And this naturally compels and shows in their outreach.

The main thing we have to choose is to FORGIVE in order to receive. If we don't make that first choice and first step to forgive and let go, then this blocks the greater good from entering into our lives and relationships to manifest all the other stages and process of establishing truth justice and peace in society for all humanity.

The big step we choose is to choose to ask higher help to forgive, let go and receive.

When we have that faith, in taking that step, the rest follows naturally by conscience. Good will compels the rest to follow, but we must agree to open up and receive it first; thus the agreement to forgive and let go of our perceptions and ways of the past if we are going to work together on bigger universal ways that are beyond our own individual will and choice and involve the collective will and good for greater humanity on a global scale.

Walking the razor, I'll answer.
Yes, being an active part of the body of Christ makes you grow and has benefits.

BUT, a person accepting Christ with their last breath will be standing in heaven next to you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yup he was a socialist as he had no problem taking other people's money

 

[oldsoul]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

 

[Weatherman2020]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

That's funny, I certainly never ran across this "you don't need to do anything to get to heaven" ideology when I was teaching SUNDAY SCHOOL.

Can you find me the scripture that establishes that? Or even a quote from a church leader who says it?

I know you won't, no more than you could provide any evidence that socialism was built upon Christian ideology.

Omg that's so freaking laughable. But this is fun.

Well, you don't need to do anything except believe. James make works clear, and the man on the cross next to Jesus converting went to Paradise that day.

You have to believe. Which is something. You have to believe in Christ and his teachings.

And if you believe in Christ and his teachings, then you act a certain way. Nope, it's not the works that get you in, but the works are the evidence of your faith. And faith IS required.

So yes, something is required. And it's not a small thing, by any means, though dishonest and lefties of no honor like to pretend it is.

In that context that someone must act like they believe I can agree.

 

[oldsoul]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

He did everything through charity, not government.

He wasnt a government so your argument is flawed. He encouraged people to pay their taxes. Thats a left wing stance as only billionaires dodge their fair share.

"Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's and give to God what is God's." How does that "encourage people to pay their taxes"?

 

[emilynghiem]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Must be because they keep talking to in Latin.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Dear Weatherman2020
I'm not saying it is by works.
I am saying works follow grace.
The grace is what saves humanity and the works follow as a natural consequence as part of that process.

Have you ever studied spiritual healing? The critical step is to ASK for help. Then all the other steps follow.

but the healing wouldn't work if the person didn't also follow through with all the steps.

First step is to accept and ask help with Forgiveness to remove the blockage that is preventing healing. And that heals the SPIRIT first. Then the mind and body follow, the person still has to go through the rest of the steps and motions to heal the mind and body in succession. And in turn, the person's relationships with people around them also heals!

So yes, it is all done by saving GRACE that brings healing on all these levels.

And in that process, the physical steps also follow. These do not contradict each other Weatherman2020

We are not saved by the physical steps, but those naturally follow as part of the salvation PROCESS.

A life is created spiritually, but the EXPRESSING and LIVING of that life comes afterwards as a physical manifestation of LIFE.

Physical expression of life does not negate or compete with the spiritual cause of life, it follows naturally so these go together.

Why are you setting this up as a conflict Weatherman2020 ?

isn't the whole point of Christ to reconcile material with spiritual, man with God, where God's will is one on all levels and there is no more separation?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

 

[Weatherman2020]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Must be because they keep talking to in Latin.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Dear Weatherman2020
I'm not saying it is by works.
I am saying works follow grace.
The grace is what saves humanity and the works follow as a natural consequence as part of that process.

Have you ever studied spiritual healing? The critical step is to ASK for help. Then all the other steps follow.

but the healing wouldn't work if the person didn't also follow through with all the steps.

First step is to accept and ask help with Forgiveness to remove the blockage that is preventing healing. And that heals the SPIRIT first. Then the mind and body follow, the person still has to go through the rest of the steps and motions to heal the mind and body in succession. And in turn, the person's relationships with people around them also heals!

So yes, it is all done by saving GRACE that brings healing on all these levels.

And in that process, the physical steps also follow. These do not contradict each other Weatherman2020

We are not saved by the physical steps, but those naturally follow as part of the salvation PROCESS.

A life is created spiritually, but the EXPRESSING and LIVING of that life comes afterwards as a physical manifestation of LIFE.

Physical expression of life does not negate or compete with the spiritual cause of life, it follows naturally so these go together.

Why are you setting this up as a conflict Weatherman2020 ?

isn't the whole point of Christ to reconcile material with spiritual, man with God, where God's will is one on all levels and there is no more separation?

Because of the statement that we are not saved unless we have works. It may have been said out of context, whatever.

And I FORGIVE everyone.
And GRACE is not my strength and want to see them be punished.

 

[oldsoul]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
Welfare: statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need.
Charity: the voluntary giving of help, typically in the form of money, to those in need.
Barter: the action or system of exchanging goods or services without using money.

I can see how you might get confused so I helped you out with some definitions. Care to revise your post?
Didn't think so.

 

[Weatherman2020]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

I just want to know why there are socialist who are multi millionaires.

 

[koshergrl]

Dear Tommy Tainant if I hadn't answered this before
There is a DIFFERENCE between Jesus teaching
being enforced by FREE WILL through religious exercise, the church, the charities and individual FREE CHOICE
vs.
being mandated through govt which is in violation of
Constitutional laws against govt establishing religion.

People can believe in free health care by volunteering to help others through donations and charitable programs and teaching hospitals.

And that is completely separate from mandating this through govt and forced taxation.

Last I checked, Tommy Tainant, the liberals who preach "separation of church and state" did NOT want references to Christianity, crosses, God Jesus, creation, prayer or Bibles pushed through schools.
Individuals have rights to practice this but not public schools that are funded by taxpayers.

So which way do you want it?

If you want Jesus principles mandated through govt,
then you'd have to put up with religious beliefs in no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no homosexuality etc.

Make up your mind.

Just be careful what you ask for; when you get the govt you deserve, you may not like it!

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

OK so what are your complaints about the "right" -- are you saying they aren't following the teachings of Jesus in their church charity and social outreach and activities?

Or are you complaining they are contradicting the teachings of Jesus in their political and govt stances?

Which realm are you complaining about the "right wing" twisting Jesus teaching backwards and contradicting it?

Thanks Tommy Tainant

I see the Gospel twisted into a hate theology.
I see minorities abused and persecuted.
I see the poor despised.
I see Preachers running million dollar ministries.

Its an ology but it isnt Christianity.

I see you attempting to twist the gospel, by lying about Christ being a socialist.

 

[emilynghiem]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Must be because they keep talking to in Latin.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Dear Weatherman2020
I'm not saying it is by works.
I am saying works follow grace.
The grace is what saves humanity and the works follow as a natural consequence as part of that process.

Have you ever studied spiritual healing? The critical step is to ASK for help. Then all the other steps follow.

but the healing wouldn't work if the person didn't also follow through with all the steps.

First step is to accept and ask help with Forgiveness to remove the blockage that is preventing healing. And that heals the SPIRIT first. Then the mind and body follow, the person still has to go through the rest of the steps and motions to heal the mind and body in succession. And in turn, the person's relationships with people around them also heals!

So yes, it is all done by saving GRACE that brings healing on all these levels.

And in that process, the physical steps also follow. These do not contradict each other Weatherman2020

We are not saved by the physical steps, but those naturally follow as part of the salvation PROCESS.

A life is created spiritually, but the EXPRESSING and LIVING of that life comes afterwards as a physical manifestation of LIFE.

Physical expression of life does not negate or compete with the spiritual cause of life, it follows naturally so these go together.

Why are you setting this up as a conflict Weatherman2020 ?

isn't the whole point of Christ to reconcile material with spiritual, man with God, where God's will is one on all levels and there is no more separation?

Because of the statement that we are not saved unless we have works. Mit may have been said out of context, whatever.

And I FORGIVE everyone.
And GRACE is not my strength and want to see them be punished.

Weatherman2020

That's like saying we are not healed until the process is finished physically.

We are saved by grace, because God's will is already written and done even before it is physically played out in full to the finish.

But if you are discussing the entire process, including the actual physical manifestations from beginning to end, then this is what it means that all the works will also be done and included.

This is not negating being saved by grace alone, but it is describing the entire process.

It does not have to be "interpreted" to mean putting works before grace or faith.

With real faith, works of course are going to follow, so we naturally fulfill that standard on what real faith means. It both means saving by grace alone,
and it also means works will follow.

It's like true love exists unto itself and doesn't need happiness in order to be true love. But true love naturally leads to happiness. So it isn't that the happiness causes the love to be true, but that happiness naturally accompanies true love regardless of circumstances.

Same with works following grace. Works don't cause the salvation, but the works naturally follow the grace that is the key to salvation.
So it's always going to be there anyway wherever true faith and grace are.

 

[emilynghiem]

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

Dear Tommy Tainant
1. helping each other with FAITH that what comes around goes around is charity, the point is to be unconditional and to give and share for its own sake. And yes this can be based on faith it's for the greater good, benefiting all people, and it's still charity.

2. doing things by CONDITION or EXPECTATION of reward is neither charity or welfare.

What do you mean by that?

3. And would you be okay with replacing welfare with microlending where people are mentored to follow a business or educational plan to pay back what they borrow so this is paid forward to help the next person.

Both Obama and Carson believe in microlending as the better way to help people break out of poverty.

Isn't there a better way to teach people "how to fish" rather than just keep fishing and feeding them by handouts?

 

[Weatherman2020]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Must be because they keep talking to in Latin.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Dear Weatherman2020
I'm not saying it is by works.
I am saying works follow grace.
The grace is what saves humanity and the works follow as a natural consequence as part of that process.

Have you ever studied spiritual healing? The critical step is to ASK for help. Then all the other steps follow.

but the healing wouldn't work if the person didn't also follow through with all the steps.

First step is to accept and ask help with Forgiveness to remove the blockage that is preventing healing. And that heals the SPIRIT first. Then the mind and body follow, the person still has to go through the rest of the steps and motions to heal the mind and body in succession. And in turn, the person's relationships with people around them also heals!

So yes, it is all done by saving GRACE that brings healing on all these levels.

And in that process, the physical steps also follow. These do not contradict each other Weatherman2020

We are not saved by the physical steps, but those naturally follow as part of the salvation PROCESS.

A life is created spiritually, but the EXPRESSING and LIVING of that life comes afterwards as a physical manifestation of LIFE.

Physical expression of life does not negate or compete with the spiritual cause of life, it follows naturally so these go together.

Why are you setting this up as a conflict Weatherman2020 ?

isn't the whole point of Christ to reconcile material with spiritual, man with God, where God's will is one on all levels and there is no more separation?

Because of the statement that we are not saved unless we have works. Mit may have been said out of context, whatever.

And I FORGIVE everyone.
And GRACE is not my strength and want to see them be punished.

Weatherman2020

That's like saying we are not healed until the process is finished physically.

We are saved by grace, because God's will is already written and done even before it is physically played out in full to the finish.

But if you are discussing the entire process, including the actual physical manifestations from beginning to end, then this is what it means that all the works will also be done and included.

This is not negating being saved by grace alone, but it is describing the entire process.

It does not have to be "interpreted" to mean putting works before grace or faith.

With real faith, works of course are going to follow, so we naturally fulfill that standard on what real faith means. It both means saving by grace alone,
and it also means works will follow.

It's like true love exists unto itself and doesn't need happiness in order to be true love. But true love naturally leads to happiness. So it isn't that the happiness causes the love to be true, but that happiness naturally accompanies true love regardless of circumstances.

Same with works following grace. Works don't cause the salvation, but the works naturally follow the grace that is the key to salvation.
So it's always going to be there anyway wherever true faith and grace are.

false statement:

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that

 

[koshergrl]

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Must be because they keep talking to in Latin.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

Dear Weatherman2020
I'm not saying it is by works.
I am saying works follow grace.
The grace is what saves humanity and the works follow as a natural consequence as part of that process.

Have you ever studied spiritual healing? The critical step is to ASK for help. Then all the other steps follow.

but the healing wouldn't work if the person didn't also follow through with all the steps.

First step is to accept and ask help with Forgiveness to remove the blockage that is preventing healing. And that heals the SPIRIT first. Then the mind and body follow, the person still has to go through the rest of the steps and motions to heal the mind and body in succession. And in turn, the person's relationships with people around them also heals!

So yes, it is all done by saving GRACE that brings healing on all these levels.

And in that process, the physical steps also follow. These do not contradict each other Weatherman2020

We are not saved by the physical steps, but those naturally follow as part of the salvation PROCESS.

A life is created spiritually, but the EXPRESSING and LIVING of that life comes afterwards as a physical manifestation of LIFE.

Physical expression of life does not negate or compete with the spiritual cause of life, it follows naturally so these go together.

Why are you setting this up as a conflict Weatherman2020 ?

isn't the whole point of Christ to reconcile material with spiritual, man with God, where God's will is one on all levels and there is no more separation?

Because of the statement that we are not saved unless we have works. Mit may have been said out of context, whatever.

And I FORGIVE everyone.
And GRACE is not my strength and want to see them be punished.

Weatherman2020

That's like saying we are not healed until the process is finished physically.

We are saved by grace, because God's will is already written and done even before it is physically played out in full to the finish.

But if you are discussing the entire process, including the actual physical manifestations from beginning to end, then this is what it means that all the works will also be done and included.

This is not negating being saved by grace alone, but it is describing the entire process.

It does not have to be "interpreted" to mean putting works before grace or faith.

With real faith, works of course are going to follow, so we naturally fulfill that standard on what real faith means. It both means saving by grace alone,
and it also means works will follow.

It's like true love exists unto itself and doesn't need happiness in order to be true love. But true love naturally leads to happiness. So it isn't that the happiness causes the love to be true, but that happiness naturally accompanies true love regardless of circumstances.

Same with works following grace. Works don't cause the salvation, but the works naturally follow the grace that is the key to salvation.
So it's always going to be there anyway wherever true faith and grace are.

false statement:

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that

Exactly.

 

[emilynghiem]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

Wrong, as usual. Not a "supporter of welfare", he was a supporter of charity. There is a difference. I fyou are confused as to what that is, invest in a dictionary.

One man helping another and getting help in return is not charity it is welfare. None of us want to see our neighbours struggle. Its good socialism with Christian roots.

I just want to know why there are socialist who are multi millionaires.

Are you talking about capitalists who use govt for private corporate benefit?

The people I know who are multimillionaires enjoy their freedom of choosing what charities or businesses to invest in. Everyone I know prefers free choice and prefers not to be forced by govt to pay taxes into things they don't believe in.

What socialist millionaires are you referring to, and which ones like to be forced to fund things they don't believe in through govt? I haven't met a person yet who liked to be coerced this way, but everyone I know wants No taxation without representation, they all want consent in matters that affect them especially their finances!

 

[there4eyeM]

One thing is certain: if "Christians" functioned as "Christianity" and Jesus teach, the political movement Socialism represents would not be necessary.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

OK so what are your complaints about the "right" -- are you saying they aren't following the teachings of Jesus in their church charity and social outreach and activities?

Or are you complaining they are contradicting the teachings of Jesus in their political and govt stances?

Which realm are you complaining about the "right wing" twisting Jesus teaching backwards and contradicting it?

Thanks Tommy Tainant

I see the Gospel twisted into a hate theology.
I see minorities abused and persecuted.
I see the poor despised.
I see Preachers running million dollar ministries.

Its an ology but it isnt Christianity.

I see you attempting to twist the gospel, by lying about Christ being a socialist.

How could my belief be a lie if I believe it to be true ?

 

[emilynghiem]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Dear yiostheoy I am guessing you are taking that way too literally.

They are not saying you can do anything and still be forgiven and go to heaven.

They are saying that once you really commit, then you will either follow the law or correct yourself when you do fall short.

Once you accept to forgive and to receive God's grace, then by continuing to follow in that spirit, all other things can be corrected that would otherwise prevent salvation.

So the works still follow, yiostheoy in fact people are so compelled they can no longer go back and do things against God's will without receiving rebuke until they correct themselves.

That is why Protestants are so big on rebuking each other by scripture, because they are now compelled to accept correction and can no longer refuse by conscience, once they commit to Christ authority to embody and enforce the laws.

What they mean by works not causing salvation is that we don't judge by APPEARANCE of works because this is misleading; it is the SPIRIT of the person and sharing that makes it spiritual or makes it material; and we can't tell just by "judging on the surface what is good works"

So this is a warning not to judge people by their works.

Otherwise yiostheoy we run the risk of judging a poor widow who only has two cents to give as "not doing works to help others" while looking at a rich man who gives millions of dollars to help the poor as better than the poor woman because "he helps more people."

So we don't want to fall into the trap of judging people as closer to God or heaven "based on their physical works"