Jesus the Socialist

[Steven_R]

The Far Right has long claimed him...the "Christian Right"....

The far right can claim whatever they want. It is all still a fallacy.

They are Protestants not Christians as they call themselves.

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

 

[yiostheoy]

No, there's not. Christianity and socialism are not compatible. So they are actually committing heresy, in addition to the treason they promote.

Jeeze ... where does the far right get all this crap from ??

They sure are good at brainwashing their offspring.

 

[yiostheoy]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

 

[irosie91]

I think it illustrates that the rich should give their wealth away - not specifically pay more to the government, but give it.

Don't forget that Jesus also said "render to Caesar that which is Caesar's".

Jesus was NOT anti taxation.

Jesus was ANTI ROME-----sorry folks ---your sunday school teachers lied

Where do you get that anti Rome crap.

Justify your false conclusion and claim.

easy---- I actually read the New Testament with some level
of knowledge of the TIMES. Jesus committed but ONE POLITICAL act in the entire book. He overturned the tables
of the "money-changers" in the temple courtyard------I would appreciate it---if you would try your best explain that action and who were the "money-changers" and what Jesus had against them?

That had nothing to do with Rome, Bebe.

Looks like you need to re-read it more carefully the next time and google the words you don't know.

I will help you to understand-----are you ready? Rome occupied Judea-----obviously for reason-----as an aspect of
ROMAN EMPIRE. They were there to MATERIALLY AND
STRATEGICALLY exploit the land and the people (just like they did to the blue Britons) In order to control---the romans
CONTROLLED the Temple in Jerusalem----which actually did
have an ECONOMIC FUNCTION------it was like Mecca----people were supposed to go there on pilgrimages and religious
law was determined there etc etc The people who were supposed to control the temple were the PRIESTS-----the priests were picked out of a specific "tribe"----specifically people descended from AARON ----and they did have a level
of POWER-------The romans had no problem with that ----they just IMPOSED THEIR OWN PICK just as they IMPOSED KING HEROD-----who---strictly speaking was ineligible----he was not even a jew-----he was an EDOMITE (historically not so bad a guy----maybe) I would really appreciate it if you
could tell me the function of the MONEY CHANGERS----and who HATED THEM THE MOST---try

 

[Tommy Tainant]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Dear Tommy Tainant if I hadn't answered this before
There is a DIFFERENCE between Jesus teaching
being enforced by FREE WILL through religious exercise, the church, the charities and individual FREE CHOICE
vs.
being mandated through govt which is in violation of
Constitutional laws against govt establishing religion.

People can believe in free health care by volunteering to help others through donations and charitable programs and teaching hospitals.

And that is completely separate from mandating this through govt and forced taxation.

Last I checked, Tommy Tainant, the liberals who preach "separation of church and state" did NOT want references to Christianity, crosses, God Jesus, creation, prayer or Bibles pushed through schools.
Individuals have rights to practice this but not public schools that are funded by taxpayers.

So which way do you want it?

If you want Jesus principles mandated through govt,
then you'd have to put up with religious beliefs in no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no homosexuality etc.

Make up your mind.

Just be careful what you ask for; when you get the govt you deserve, you may not like it!

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

 

[koshergrl]

Jesus gets politicized a lot - each faction wants to claim him. He wasn't a political revolutionary but he was a social one and he advanced a religious message that flew in the face of religious and social dogma at the time.

He told the people to obey the secular authorities. There was no rule of the people by the people, and he did not advocate that. He advocated obedience to God, obedience to authority, tolerance, love, and endurance because their reward would not come in this life but the one after.

But just as the far left can't totally claim him, neither can the far right. He told us to help our fellow people when they were struggling - not leave them on the roadside because we assumed a moral failing was the cause of their poverty. In fact, unlike many on the right - he attached no moral label to poverty.

I read the New Testament----I do not recall Jesus telling people to obey SECULAR AUTHORITY-----au contraire

Didn't he say render unto Ceaser etc?

Yes, and I already addressed this. His commentary about rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's was a perfect embodiment of his disdain of conflating the payment of TAXES with your worth as a CHRISTIAN.

That very comment is the one that perfectly explains his attitude about government..which is that it is not of God, and that subservience to government will not bring you favor with God.

 

[koshergrl]

He also defied political authority when he refused to answer Herod.

Jesus did not defy Pontius Pilate therefore your rhetorical verbose argumentative response is a fallacy.

Stick to Judaism -- you're good at that.

You're not good at Christianity.

I didn't say he defied Pontius Pilate. I said he defied Herod.

Hello? Hello? Someone's knockin at the door...somebody's ringing the bell...

 

[koshergrl]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

That's funny, I certainly never ran across this "you don't need to do anything to get to heaven" ideology when I was teaching SUNDAY SCHOOL.

Can you find me the scripture that establishes that? Or even a quote from a church leader who says it?

I know you won't, no more than you could provide any evidence that socialism was built upon Christian ideology.

Omg that's so freaking laughable. But this is fun.

 

[Weatherman2020]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Hilarious watching the atheists pretending to be theologians.

Matthew 10:34-36 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’

Ask the residents of Sodom and Gemorah how peaceful God can be. Ask Noah. Pharaoh. Caananites.

 

[Weatherman2020]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

That's funny, I certainly never ran across this "you don't need to do anything to get to heaven" ideology when I was teaching SUNDAY SCHOOL.

Can you find me the scripture that establishes that? Or even a quote from a church leader who says it?

I know you won't, no more than you could provide any evidence that socialism was built upon Christian ideology.

Omg that's so freaking laughable. But this is fun.

Well, you don't need to do anything except believe. James make works clear, and the man on the cross next to Jesus converting went to Paradise that day.

 

[irosie91]

I read the New Testament----Jesus says virtually nothing to Herod------I did not have the impression that Herod was judging him-----he says a few non-descript things to Pilate-----almost --
dismissive-----like "yeah---whatevah...." His fate was already sealed-------he was considered a seditionist. The Romans did not engage in long trials of seditionists------they just nailed them to crosses. He had already been tried in absentia

 

[koshergrl]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

That's funny, I certainly never ran across this "you don't need to do anything to get to heaven" ideology when I was teaching SUNDAY SCHOOL.

Can you find me the scripture that establishes that? Or even a quote from a church leader who says it?

I know you won't, no more than you could provide any evidence that socialism was built upon Christian ideology.

Omg that's so freaking laughable. But this is fun.

Well, you don't need to do anything except believe. James make works clear, and the man on the cross next to Jesus converting went to Paradise that day.

You have to believe. Which is something. You have to believe in Christ and his teachings.

And if you believe in Christ and his teachings, then you act a certain way. Nope, it's not the works that get you in, but the works are the evidence of your faith. And faith IS required.

So yes, something is required. And it's not a small thing, by any means, though dishonest and lefties of no honor like to pretend it is.

 

[emilynghiem]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

He did everything through charity, not government.

He wasnt a government so your argument is flawed. He encouraged people to pay their taxes. Thats a left wing stance as only billionaires dodge their fair share.

I never said Jesus was "a government" so your rebuttal is flawed.

Aye, he encouraged people to pay their taxes, as do I. Paying the taxes you owe doesn't make one a socialist, so your arguement is flawed.

Dear theHawk
The Bible, in teaching to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God what is God's, teaches to respect civil authority, which includes Constitutional limits on govt.

so if govt is abused to force people to pay taxes to social programs that govt is not designed to manage, this is going against natural laws from God that our Constitution is based on.

This does not mean to break the law by not paying taxes, but means to follow the laws by reforming govt to separate social charitable functions from mandated public policy.

If the tax laws aren't changed to allow separation of funding by party, what I suggest is investing directly in businesses that do the work of charity, of managing health care medical education etc., and deducting the business expenses from taxes 100%.

It is easier to control where your money goes by using business DBA and LLC, than by trying to fight with IRS regulations on what are nonprofit rules and exemptions. You can still do the work of charity but through a business set up so the deductions for expenses are 100%. That's what I recommend, and then you can follow the law and separate what is charitable by choice from what is Constitutionally authorized as govt responsibility that everyone agrees to fund through taxes.

 

[koshergrl]

I read the New Testament----Jesus says virtually nothing to Herod------I did not have the impression that Herod was judging him-----he says a few non-descript things to Pilate-----almost --
dismissive-----like "yeah---whatevah...." His fate was already sealed-------he was considered a seditionist. The Romans did not engage in long trials of seditionists------they just nailed them to crosses. He had already been tried in absentia

"Herod Antipas (the same man who had previously ordered the death of John the Baptist) had wanted to see Jesus for a long time, because he had been hoping to observe one of the miracles of Jesus.[6] However, Jesus says nothing in response to Herod's questions, or the vehement accusations of the chief priests and the scribes."

Jesus at Herod's court - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To refuse to respond was an act of defiance.

 

[Weatherman2020]

I read the New Testament----Jesus says virtually nothing to Herod------I did not have the impression that Herod was judging him-----he says a few non-descript things to Pilate-----almost --
dismissive-----like "yeah---whatevah...." His fate was already sealed-------he was considered a seditionist. The Romans did not engage in long trials of seditionists------they just nailed them to crosses. He had already been tried in absentia

Herod died in 4BC. Pilate had good suspicion Jesus was who he said he was and did his best to make the Jews make a decision. Pilates wife insisted Jesus must not be crucified. The Jews ultimately threatened to report him to Ceaser and put his neck in a noose.

 

[emilynghiem]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

That's funny, I certainly never ran across this "you don't need to do anything to get to heaven" ideology when I was teaching SUNDAY SCHOOL.

Can you find me the scripture that establishes that? Or even a quote from a church leader who says it?

I know you won't, no more than you could provide any evidence that socialism was built upon Christian ideology.

Omg that's so freaking laughable. But this is fun.

Well, you don't need to do anything except believe. James make works clear, and the man on the cross next to Jesus converting went to Paradise that day.

Dear Weatherman2020
All the people I know who truly believe in Christ Jesus live by Restorative Justice. And this naturally compels and shows in their outreach.

The main thing we have to choose is to FORGIVE in order to receive. If we don't make that first choice and first step to forgive and let go, then this blocks the greater good from entering into our lives and relationships to manifest all the other stages and process of establishing truth justice and peace in society for all humanity.

The big step we choose is to choose to ask higher help to forgive, let go and receive.

When we have that faith, in taking that step, the rest follows naturally by conscience. Good will compels the rest to follow, but we must agree to open up and receive it first; thus the agreement to forgive and let go of our perceptions and ways of the past if we are going to work together on bigger universal ways that are beyond our own individual will and choice and involve the collective will and good for greater humanity on a global scale.

 

[emilynghiem]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Dear Tommy Tainant if I hadn't answered this before
There is a DIFFERENCE between Jesus teaching
being enforced by FREE WILL through religious exercise, the church, the charities and individual FREE CHOICE
vs.
being mandated through govt which is in violation of
Constitutional laws against govt establishing religion.

People can believe in free health care by volunteering to help others through donations and charitable programs and teaching hospitals.

And that is completely separate from mandating this through govt and forced taxation.

Last I checked, Tommy Tainant, the liberals who preach "separation of church and state" did NOT want references to Christianity, crosses, God Jesus, creation, prayer or Bibles pushed through schools.
Individuals have rights to practice this but not public schools that are funded by taxpayers.

So which way do you want it?

If you want Jesus principles mandated through govt,
then you'd have to put up with religious beliefs in no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no homosexuality etc.

Make up your mind.

Just be careful what you ask for; when you get the govt you deserve, you may not like it!

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

OK so what are your complaints about the "right" -- are you saying they aren't following the teachings of Jesus in their church charity and social outreach and activities?

Or are you complaining they are contradicting the teachings of Jesus in their political and govt stances?

Which realm are you complaining about the "right wing" twisting Jesus teaching backwards and contradicting it?

Thanks Tommy Tainant

 

[Weatherman2020]

We settled that back in the 17th Century after that little dustup called the Thirty Years War and 8 million dead. Believe in Christ = Christian. The flavor doesn't really matter.

What makes you think the Protestants really "believe in Christ" ??

Their most popular doctrine is that you don't need to do anything to get to heaven.

Jesus certainly did NOT teach that.

Must be because they keep talking to you in Latin.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

A radical who fought for social justice.

He was on the side of the Angels on pretty much everything and his message was as clear as it gets.

Anti War - Blessed are the Peacemakers.

Healing the sick - He didnt turn away people without cover.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. He didnt say "apart from fags".

If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. - Co-operation not competition, we work together to build a better world.

Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone. - Apart from when its trannys who deserve to die !

Give to everyone who begs from you; and of him who takes away your goods do not ask them again. And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. - Strong supporter of welfare.

All the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you shall not covet, and so on, are summed up in this single command: You must love your neighbor as yourself. - No T and Cs on this. We are all neighbours and entitled. He doesnt exclude any group.

How have his teachings become twisted into hate by false prophets ?

How has he been appropriated by the Right ?

Dear Tommy Tainant if I hadn't answered this before
There is a DIFFERENCE between Jesus teaching
being enforced by FREE WILL through religious exercise, the church, the charities and individual FREE CHOICE
vs.
being mandated through govt which is in violation of
Constitutional laws against govt establishing religion.

People can believe in free health care by volunteering to help others through donations and charitable programs and teaching hospitals.

And that is completely separate from mandating this through govt and forced taxation.

Last I checked, Tommy Tainant, the liberals who preach "separation of church and state" did NOT want references to Christianity, crosses, God Jesus, creation, prayer or Bibles pushed through schools.
Individuals have rights to practice this but not public schools that are funded by taxpayers.

So which way do you want it?

If you want Jesus principles mandated through govt,
then you'd have to put up with religious beliefs in no sex outside of marriage, no abortions, no homosexuality etc.

Make up your mind.

Just be careful what you ask for; when you get the govt you deserve, you may not like it!

I havent asked for anything Emily. Its just an observation.

OK Tommy Tainant
Do you make the distinction that the church teachings and authority apply to believers and followers of scriptural authority including church leaders and members.

And the workings of GOVT and public policy are supposed to be governed under the Constitution that is supposed to respect equal religious freedom and choice?

Why woudnt I ?

OK so what are your complaints about the "right" -- are you saying they aren't following the teachings of Jesus in their church charity and social outreach and activities?

Or are you complaining they are contradicting the teachings of Jesus in their political and govt stances?

Which realm are you complaining about the "right wing" twisting Jesus teaching backwards and contradicting it?

Thanks Tommy Tainant

I see the Gospel twisted into a hate theology.
I see minorities abused and persecuted.
I see the poor despised.
I see Preachers running million dollar ministries.

Its an ology but it isnt Christianity.

 

[irosie91]

Good point Jesus did not speak latin or greek---Luke spoke greek and not aramaic