Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual

[MHunterB]

"..... maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship."

Actually, I don't like that idea one bit - using religion as a determining factor - and I've stated that quite a few times.

The problem is, it's NOT Israel which does this - as you falsely claim! - but Saudi (which outlaws all other religions but Islam for their citizens).

 

[MHunterB]

For the logic-challenged among us: 'fast-tracking' a certain group of people into citizenship is not the same thing as totally forbidding any other group from ever becoming citizens.

There are many nations - Germany is one - which give preference to prospective citizens who can show 'German descent'. My husband would probably get accepted just on the basis of his looks, without the fact that he can prove descent from a Palantine German who came to the US in the '20's (the 1720's)......

But again, such *preferential* laws, while perhaps distressing to American 'egalitarian' sensibilities, are not an actual BAR to citizenship as is the KSA law.

So it's the Saudis who are actually guilty of doing what 'bluesman' has alleged against the Israelis.

 

[Hossfly]

"..... maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship."

Actually, I don't like that idea one bit - using religion as a determining factor - and I've stated that quite a few times.

The problem is, it's NOT Israel which does this - as you falsely claim! - but Saudi (which outlaws all other religions but Islam for their citizens).

See, that kind of idiot bullshit is why you have to rely on your like minded idiot friends to build up your rep. Good for you. You have proven that you care more about your phony image than participating in honest debate. I don't give a fuck about the rep system where idiots trade reps with each other anymore than I would care if you get together and give each other blowjobs. Go for it.

I posted a fucking link to the Israeli government's website showing that they instantly grant citizenship to Jews. If you are too fucking stupid to see what it says then I get it why you come here to trade positive reps with your fellow idiots. If you have an issue with the Israeli government website says but are unable to verbalize a response, then it just shows you are not thinking. That is what happens to ideologues. They see it as a battle of good versus evil and will attack anybody who doesn't buy into their ideology. Sorry but the Israeli government will grant citizenship based on religion. That is what their website says.

I'll give you a pos rep if it'll shut your tear ducts.

 

[bluesman]

I am just reading what it says on the Israeli government website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen.


It seems pretty straight forward about it.

Jews trying to get... 04-30-2014 12:55 AM MHunterB .
Jews trying to get... 04-27-2014 02:30 PM MHunterB .
Jews trying to get... 04-24-2014 04:03 PM MHunterB

I understand that rep bombing is the chicken-shit alternative to responding with facts or logic but why the hell would you be mad at me for linking and quoting the Israeli government website? If the truth pisses you off that much, then maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship.

Tissue?

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

 

[bluesman]

For the logic-challenged among us: 'fast-tracking' a certain group of people into citizenship is not the same thing as totally forbidding any other group from ever becoming citizens.

There are many nations - Germany is one - which give preference to prospective citizens who can show 'German descent'. My husband would probably get accepted just on the basis of his looks, without the fact that he can prove descent from a Palantine German who came to the US in the '20's (the 1720's)......

But again, such *preferential* laws, while perhaps distressing to American 'egalitarian' sensibilities, are not an actual BAR to citizenship as is the KSA law.

So it's the Saudis who are actually guilty of doing what 'bluesman' has alleged against the Israelis.

I didn't "allege" anything. I provided a link to the Israeli government website. Why are you so interested in deflecting away from facts. If you don't want to talk about Israel, then maybe you should go and start a thread about Germany.

 

[Hossfly]

I understand that rep bombing is the chicken-shit alternative to responding with facts or logic but why the hell would you be mad at me for linking and quoting the Israeli government website? If the truth pisses you off that much, then maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship.

Tissue?

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

This ain't about religion, Reverend, but if Israel wants to base citizenship on religion then so be it.

 

[bluesman]

Tissue?

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

This ain't about religion, Reverend, but if Israel wants to base citizenship on religion then so be it.

Right. That is what they do. I am not saying that you, or anybody else, has to support American values just because I do or even because our founders did. Not everybody is an American. I can respect that.

 

[Phoenall]

I understand that rep bombing is the chicken-shit alternative to responding with facts or logic but why the hell would you be mad at me for linking and quoting the Israeli government website? If the truth pisses you off that much, then maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship.

Tissue?

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

It doesn't it grants citizenship based on race, ability to talk Hebrew, and mother lineage. I could claim to be a Jew, speak fluent Hebrew and produce forged documents to show my Mother was a Jew and I would never become an Israeli citizen.
In France you need to show an ability to read and talk French like a native before you can be considered for citizenship. In Australia you have to show that you are either sponsored or self sufficient before applying for citizenship

I have never valued the founding fathers words and actions, but then I am not American. But I do share the values of Israel in its defence of its children, and those that don't are terrorist supporters.

 

[Kondor3]

"..... maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship."

Actually, I don't like that idea one bit - using religion as a determining factor - and I've stated that quite a few times.

The problem is, it's NOT Israel which does this - as you falsely claim! - but Saudi (which outlaws all other religions but Islam for their citizens).

See, that kind of idiot bullshit is why you have to rely on your like minded idiot friends to build up your rep. Good for you. You have proven that you care more about your phony image than participating in honest debate. I don't give a fuck about the rep system where idiots trade reps with each other anymore than I would care if you get together and give each other blowjobs. Go for it.

I posted a fucking link to the Israeli government's website showing that they instantly grant citizenship to Jews. If you are too fucking stupid to see what it says then I get it why you come here to trade positive reps with your fellow idiots. If you have an issue with the Israeli government website says but are unable to verbalize a response, then it just shows you are not thinking. That is what happens to ideologues. They see it as a battle of good versus evil and will attack anybody who doesn't buy into their ideology. Sorry but the Israeli government will grant citizenship based on religion. That is what their website says.

Another nasty wee boggit with a potty-mouth... great... just great...

It's the Jews' country... they can do whatever-the-hell they want to in it.

You can always try stopping them, yourself, big mouth.

Oh, and, by the way...

When was the last time you saw analogous road-signs in Israel that reverse-mirrored this?

Pffffftttt.....

 

[Roudy]

I understand that rep bombing is the chicken-shit alternative to responding with facts or logic but why the hell would you be mad at me for linking and quoting the Israeli government website? If the truth pisses you off that much, then maybe you should re-evaluate your support of the idea that any country supported by the USA should ever use religion as a determining factor for granting citizenship.

Tissue?

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

We already talked about this, dork. You said you have to be Jewish to be Israeli and you were proven to be wrong. Stop whining so much and move on. Or don't, who cares.

Boozeman.

 

[Unkotare]

12 current members of the Israeli Knesset are Muslim.

 

[toastman]

12 current members of the Israeli Knesset are Muslim.

Did you read that they were Arabs and assumed they were Muslim or are their religions stated?

 

[Coyote]

Thread cleaned and reopened.

"Zone 2": Political Forum / Israel and Palestine Forum / Race Relations/Racism Forum / Religion & Ethics Forum: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.

Keep it relevant guys - flames must include some content related to the subject under discussion.

 

[bluesman]

Tissue?

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

We already talked about this, dork. You said you have to be Jewish to be Israeli and you were proven to be wrong. Stop whining so much and move on. Or don't, who cares.

Boozeman.

The fact that you can only respond with name calling and not anything factual shows that you have nothing.

I will break it down for you. If you are not an Israeli citizen and you want to be an Israeli citizen, then the Israeli government spells out in plain English. Here is the link to their website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


See, it talks about "acquiring nationality". If you read the link, then it clearly says that if a person is Jewish, then they get automatic citizenship. Based on its title, this thread is specifically about Israel and how they fuck things up for America. I simply pointed out that they will grant citizenship based on religion. That is something that is contrary to our core values. Here in America "we hold" certain "truths to be self evident". I am not telling you to become American or support American values. I am simply pointing out that Israel does not hold the same "truths" "to be self evident". If someone in our government granted any sort of favoritism based on religion, then our supreme court would never uphold any law or court ruling that supported that kind of religion based favoritism. It would certainly never allow a law where members of a certain religion were granted automatic citizenship. Those are just facts. If support the idea of granting citizenship based on religion, then we can just agree to disagree. I support American values and you have every right to support whatever values you wish.

 

[MHunterB]

It's equally contrary to American core values to BAR people from even entering a country if they're of a certain religion, isn't it?

So why not a peep from you about how KSA runs their country? Or did you fail to notice their laws?

As soon as one compares US to Israeli laws, there's no reason to limit it to ONLY those two while discussing whether or not Americans 'should' approve.

After all, KSA is also a US ally which receives foreign aid.

 

[bluesman]

...I will break it down for you. If you are not an Israeli citizen and you want to be an Israeli citizen, then the Israeli government spells out in plain English. Here is the link to their website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


See, it talks about "acquiring nationality". If you read the link, then it clearly says that if a person is Jewish, then they get automatic citizenship. Based on its title, this thread is specifically about Israel and how they fuck things up for America. I simply pointed out that they will grant citizenship based on religion. That is something that is contrary to our core values. Here in America "we hold" certain "truths to be self evident". I am not telling you to become American or support American values. I am simply pointing out that Israel does not hold the same "truths" "to be self evident". If someone in our government granted any sort of favoritism based on religion, then our supreme court would never uphold any law or court ruling that supported that kind of religion based favoritism. It would certainly never allow a law where members of a certain religion were granted automatic citizenship. Those are just facts. If support the idea of granting citizenship based on religion, then we can just agree to disagree. I support American values and you have every right to support whatever values you wish.

It's equally contrary to American core values to BAR people from even entering a country if they're of a certain religion, isn't it?

So why not a peep from you about how KSA runs their country? Or did you fail to notice their laws?

As soon as one compares US to Israeli laws, there's no reason to limit it to ONLY those two while discussing whether or not Americans 'should' approve.

After all, KSA is also a US ally which receives foreign aid.

This thread isn't about the "KSA". I am not required to go off topic. If you want to justify what Israel does by citing other fucked up governments, then that only proves that Israel is fucked up in the way it does things.

 

[Roudy]

Is that what you come here for? Stupid shit like that?

Do you not want to talk about the fact that the Israeli government grants citizenship based on religion? To me that is contrary to American values. Of course, I am an American and I value what our founding fathers came up with as far as how we operate and what we believe in. If you don't share those values, the no hard feelings.

We already talked about this, dork. You said you have to be Jewish to be Israeli and you were proven to be wrong. Stop whining so much and move on. Or don't, who cares.

Boozeman.

The fact that you can only respond with name calling and not anything factual shows that you have nothing.

I will break it down for you. If you are not an Israeli citizen and you want to be an Israeli citizen, then the Israeli government spells out in plain English. Here is the link to their website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


See, it talks about "acquiring nationality". If you read the link, then it clearly says that if a person is Jewish, then they get automatic citizenship. Based on its title, this thread is specifically about Israel and how they fuck things up for America. I simply pointed out that they will grant citizenship based on religion. That is something that is contrary to our core values. Here in America "we hold" certain "truths to be self evident". I am not telling you to become American or support American values. I am simply pointing out that Israel does not hold the same "truths" "to be self evident". If someone in our government granted any sort of favoritism based on religion, then our supreme court would never uphold any law or court ruling that supported that kind of religion based favoritism. It would certainly never allow a law where members of a certain religion were granted automatic citizenship. Those are just facts. If support the idea of granting citizenship based on religion, then we can just agree to disagree. I support American values and you have every right to support whatever values you wish.

Nope nope, and nope. For the tenth time, there are 1.8 million Arab Muslims, about a quarter of Israel's population, that live as Israeli citizens with the exact same rights. While being a Jew certainly give's a "preference" to becoming a citizen of Israel, it by no means BARS people of other religions from becoming citizens. Israel is a democratic nation with freedom of speech and elections which respects people's of all religions and races, which are about as close to America's core values as you can get.

Meanwhile, 99% of Muslim countries are shitholes of oppression, corruption, intolerance, and persecution, with values that run 180 degrees the opposite of our American values.

Boozeman.

 

[Phoenall]

...I will break it down for you. If you are not an Israeli citizen and you want to be an Israeli citizen, then the Israeli government spells out in plain English. Here is the link to their website:

Acquisition of Israeli Nationality


See, it talks about "acquiring nationality". If you read the link, then it clearly says that if a person is Jewish, then they get automatic citizenship. Based on its title, this thread is specifically about Israel and how they fuck things up for America. I simply pointed out that they will grant citizenship based on religion. That is something that is contrary to our core values. Here in America "we hold" certain "truths to be self evident". I am not telling you to become American or support American values. I am simply pointing out that Israel does not hold the same "truths" "to be self evident". If someone in our government granted any sort of favoritism based on religion, then our supreme court would never uphold any law or court ruling that supported that kind of religion based favoritism. It would certainly never allow a law where members of a certain religion were granted automatic citizenship. Those are just facts. If support the idea of granting citizenship based on religion, then we can just agree to disagree. I support American values and you have every right to support whatever values you wish.

It's equally contrary to American core values to BAR people from even entering a country if they're of a certain religion, isn't it?

So why not a peep from you about how KSA runs their country? Or did you fail to notice their laws?

As soon as one compares US to Israeli laws, there's no reason to limit it to ONLY those two while discussing whether or not Americans 'should' approve.

After all, KSA is also a US ally which receives foreign aid.

This thread isn't about the "KSA". I am not required to go off topic. If you want to justify what Israel does by citing other fucked up governments, then that only proves that Israel is fucked up in the way it does things.

Then explain these exclusions from your link that shows it is not that cut and dried

Acquisition of Nationality according to the Law of Return


On the establishment of the State, its founders proclaimed "...the renewal of the Jewish State in the Land of Israel, which would open wide the gates of the homeland to every Jew..." In pursuance of this tenet, the State of Israel has absorbed survivors of the Holocaust, refugees from the countries in which they had resided, as well as many thousands of Jews who came to settle in Israel of their own volition.

The Law of Return (1950) grants every Jew, wherever he may be, the right to come to Israel as an oleh (a Jew immigrating to Israel) and become an Israeli citizen.

For the purposes of this Law, "Jew" means a person who was born of a Jewish mother, or has converted to Judaism and is not a member of another religion.

Israeli citizenship becomes effective on the day of arrival in the country or of receipt of an oleh's certificate, whichever is later. A person may declare, within three months, that he/she does not wish to become a citizen.

An oleh's certificate may be denied to persons who:


1.engage in activity directed against the Jewish people;
2.may endanger public health or the security of the state;
3.have a criminal past, likely to endanger public welfare.

 

[Beelzebub]

WEll LIPS, I'd say it reeks of anti-Israeli sentiment.

It is possible, ya know, to object to much about the state of Israel and not hate Jews one bit.

Not that I am speaking on behalf of Indo, but I am simply this responding to the content of this particular post.

Personally I think as long Israel exists then Jerusalem ought to be an Israeli city.

But here I have one POV that probably will piss you off.

I completely and totally reject the notion of duel citizenship for anybody anywhere anytime.

The Zivotofsky's need to get off the pot and declare their allegiance to either the USA or Israel.

Hi. I'm new here. But not new everywhere, so let's get over it.

Maybe Jerusalem ought to be an Israeli city, but it isn't. Its like maybe Alaska should belong to Russia, but it doesn't. So you are not wrong as such. But you are very close.

I think you have a good point on dual citizenship. It adds complexity, and we all know the right wing are not good with complexity. If you can't salute it or shoot it, they get a bit stumped.

As to "getting off the pot" to "declare their allegiance to either the USA or Israel", that seems sensible. Only how about the US Government and Military doing so first?
It seems that both want to be loyal to both what they think is the USA and to Israel. When the two are in conflict they tend to side with Israel.

See: "The USS Liberty" and other events.

 

[Lipush]

WEll LIPS, I'd say it reeks of anti-Israeli sentiment.

It is possible, ya know, to object to much about the state of Israel and not hate Jews one bit.

Not that I am speaking on behalf of Indo, but I am simply this responding to the content of this particular post.

Personally I think as long Israel exists then Jerusalem ought to be an Israeli city.

But here I have one POV that probably will piss you off.

I completely and totally reject the notion of duel citizenship for anybody anywhere anytime.

The Zivotofsky's need to get off the pot and declare their allegiance to either the USA or Israel.

Hi. I'm new here. But not new everywhere, so let's get over it.

Maybe Jerusalem ought to be an Israeli city, but it isn't. Its like maybe Alaska should belong to Russia, but it doesn't. So you are not wrong as such. But you are very close.

I think you have a good point on dual citizenship. It adds complexity, and we all know the right wing are not good with complexity. If you can't salute it or shoot it, they get a bit stumped.

As to "getting off the pot" to "declare their allegiance to either the USA or Israel", that seems sensible. Only how about the US Government and Military doing so first?
It seems that both want to be loyal to both what they think is the USA and to Israel. When the two are in conflict they tend to side with Israel.

See: "The USS Liberty" and other events.

Please explain.